Between 485 & 705 SQ/FT The Driven Garage 20x30 in Chicago

[TheDrivenGarage]

I have been a long time lurker but just joined as I am ready to begin my build. I am a car fanatic but live in Chicago (the actual city not the suburbs), and want to maximize my Urban Garage. After looking at a lot of options from buying another lot, to buying a commercial lot, to a cardominimum out in the suburbs, I decided to try and tackle it on my own city lot.

The city restricts us to a max size of 600 sq ft and a max height of 15 ft, though some have reported going taller. We have to leave access to a sidewalk to the alley as well, so I will be limited to building a 20x30 with 13ft walls. I am going to try and DIY as much as I can, but Chicago is heavily regulated so some of it will be tricky. Current target for start of construction is April of 2024.

Going to post the initial build specs for feedback in the next post.

 

[captain14]

Will your garage have access from the street side or the alley?

 

[TheDrivenGarage]

• Will your garage have access from the street side or the alley?

Will be accessed from the Alley side for cars, and backyard for people.

 

[TheDrivenGarage]

Build Specs V1.0

Demolition

• Demo current garage & slab. Remove all debris.

Concrete

• Fill in 6” of crushed stone/dirt and 4” of concrete slab w/ steel mesh + fiber for 20’ X 30’garage. 6 bag mix(4000 PSI) with 10” footing. Raised slab with thickened perimeter footing. 6 inch water ledge. Pour 2’ X 20’ apron. Pour five footings for lift. 2’ X 2’ 20” deep each with Rebar tie in to mail slab.

Framing

• New 20’ X 30’ oversized 3 car garage with 13’ walls 16 inch on center studs. 2” X 8” ceiling joists 30” OC. Sill gasket sealer between walls and slab.
• All sheathing to be ½ in. plywood for both roof and walls. Roof to be covered in 15 lb felt paper.
• Cover all exteriors walls with Tyvek style vapor barrier house wrap.

Roof

• Construct Hip roof 5/12 pitch. Roof is to be Hip style with 2” X 6” roof rafters 24” on center. Install 2X6 framing lumber as facia board on both ends of bottom of rafters. Install Roof Vents per code.
• 8” eaves aluminum wrapping the entire vented soffit and fascia of the garage.
• Architectural shingles 35 year. #15 felt paper. Water shield 4’ off perimeter.

Exterior

• Vinyl siding 25 year,
• Install new aluminum gutters all-around of the new garage with (2) downspouts.

Doors & Entry

• Install 1 new 36” service door with lockset, deadbolt and aluminum threshold.
• Install 16’ X 10’ insulated garage door with Side mount ½ Hp Lift-master with 2 remotes. Commercial tracking with high lift conversion.
• Install 8’ X 7’ party door(insulated) with slide lock.

Electrical

• Connect Existing power from house service with existing Sub Panel
  • Include:
    • Reconnect existing EV hookups
    • 3 standard wall outlets
    • 3 ceiling lights
    • 1 exterior motion light
    • 1 power for opener

This is where I am with the builder now on the specs for the garage. All work will be permitted and go through the formal building review here in Chicago. Let me know if anything jumps out at you all.

I plan a fair bit of DIY construction projects as well.

• Concrete Radiant Tubing Install
  • I am planning to put down and Crete-Heat Panel insulation and radiant tubing for the garage concrete pour. The Concrete contractor is fine for me to install it, him to review and then pour.
• More Extensive Electrical Fit Out
  • The electrician is willing to let me subcontract under his license to build out additional outlets and runs for a modest fee, and he will review and sign off. I have extensive experience with this, and did similiar with another electrician on another project. The electrical above is the basic electrical the builder includes for $0 extra.
• Insulation & Drywall
  • I will insulate the drywall the walls and create an attic and insulate the attic floor. Should i have the builder install rigid foam insulation in the roof as well? And then not worry about creating an attic? I would love to keep the interior feeling as open as possible due to putting lifts in the space.
• Plumbing
  • This is looking like it will be a much bigger ask, and may take me out of the easy permit system in Chicago which cuts a lot of red tape, but I am looking into the feasibility of bringing water into the garage for basic washes, and ideally a drain. Seems like the drain is going to raise the most eyebrows. Will be posting more on this seperately.
• Lifts
  • Will have a seperate post about this, but putting in a dual parking lift system to hold two cars up top and two on underneath.

Let me know if i am missing anything!

 

[pima67]

You are probably not in the neighborhood I grew up in near 89th and Stoney Island (Calumet Heights.) A Long time ago with empty fields home to rabbits and pheasants. Looks like a good plan.

 

[billconner]

10" deep footing? Just surprised it doesn't have to be deeper, though 600 SF may allow it.

I would turn up edge of slab, or put in a course of blocks, to raise wood framing from grade.

Attics, ventilation, and roof insulation seem to be a common topic and problem here. I think a very good solution is rigid foam on top of roof framing. So open to rafters, sheathing (consider t&g for aesthetics), 4 to 6" rigid foam, nail base, roof. Or if metal just 2x4 nailers every 3' or so through foam to rafters. This should eliminate all venting and condensation concerns.

Good luck with diy in Chicago. About the most diy unfriendly place I know. I was fine in Oak Park, barely.

 

[TheDrivenGarage]

You are probably not in the neighborhood I grew up in near 89th and Stoney Island (Calumet Heights.) A Long time ago with empty fields home to rabbits and pheasants. Looks like a good plan.

I know that area! It's changed a lot over the years. A friends Grandpa was the principal at Simeon back in the day.

I would turn up edge of slab, or put in a course of blocks, to raise wood framing from grade

Agreed! They plan on turning it up 6 Inches. So I don't have to worry too much about slush in the winter and the wood framing.

Going to dive deeper into your recos on insulation and the roof. I am seeing that's the common rabbit hole.

Chicago is NOT DIY friendly at all. I grew up in VA and you could hand draw your plans in my county and do it yourself. They really only cared about wells and septic systems.

 

[pickles]

Driven, I did a similar project in Lakeview a couple of years ago. What part of the city are you in?

 

[captain14]

TheDrivenGarage

Post up some pics of the old garage. Always interested to see some of the old historical buildings.

 

[TheDrivenGarage]

Driven, I did a similar project in Lakeview a couple of years ago. What part of the city are you in?

I am on the Near West Side, just west of Ogden & Roosevelt. How was your build experience? Any tips to share? Did you by chance put a drain or water in your build?

EDIT: Just found your build thread, and diving in now!

 

[sscott91]

Fellow Chicagoan here. Following along with great interest. Best of luck on your build!

 

[Fast_Ed]

Sounds like a solid plan given the constraints you're working with. I'll be following along!

 

[TheDrivenGarage]

TheDrivenGarage

Post up some pics of the old garage. Always interested to see some of the old historical buildings.

My current garage isn't historic unfortunately. In 2017 I had a dilapidated garage from the 60s in the back and rebuilt it, but didn't redo the old cracked concrete, as at the time as I just needed something up fast then. They had the current garage built in 4 days including demo of the past one, since I reused the old concrete. This time I get to do it right. But I am going to try and figure out what I can reclaim or donate from the current structure.

 

[gfd_703]

I get such a kick out of how different things are in the city verses the rural areas of our country. First thing I noticed is you call a 20 x 30 a 3 car. Where I park my truck is a 20 x 36 and it is a 1 car. My truck is way to long to fit from the 20 foot side so the door is on the end and 20 ft wide is not wide enough to put 2 trucks side by side with any hope of opening the doors. In all fairness there is enough width to park the Harley beside the truck and have a small office/kitchen area in front of the truck.
The other thing is permitting. When I built my shop I had to drop by the court house and get a $15 building permit. They do this for 2 reasons, one to be sure it gets on the tax rolls and the other is so the electric company can supply electricity. Again another way to be sure it goes on the tax list. I also had to get an electrical inspections, rough in, service release, and final. All together I think this was less than $100 including the meter base they gave me. The gas company also inspected the gas plumbing from the meter to the central unit before turning on the gas, this was free. I did all the work myself and passed the inspections the first try.
No plans to submit. They even asked me how much I was planning on spending so that is the number they used for property tax. I could have built a dog house or a 50,000 sq ft mega shop, they didn't care.
The down side to this freedom is that a mile down the road are a couple of houses that have never thrown anything away in their lifetimes, just opened the door and threw it in the yard for all to see. Old cars, appliances, furniture, building materials, even general trash. They are very nice people who cause no trouble, they just have a different way of living. I will take this over some desk jockey dictating every thing that I can do with my property.

 

[TheDrivenGarage]

I get such a kick out of how different things are in the city verses the rural areas of our country.

I agree! It's crazy how regulated regulated everything here is in Chicago, and since the fire 100 years ago, the electrical practices are even more work (though theoretically safer). I just wish you could do the work as long as you could pass inspection.

Yeah, the "3 Car" was a copy and paste from the builder. I really wish I could have more width. 24 would be great. One of the vehicles that will live here is a Ram TRX and its WIDE, currently its a squeeze between the cars. We will get two more feet vs now, but I would love another few feet but we have to leave external access to the alley.

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

I am in the west burbs myself

Looking forward to seeing your build!

I’m a mason contractor and Yes Chicago is a royal PITA to work in, I avoid it any way I can!

 

[Swanny1953]

I have the BendPak double wide x-long lift - works great!

 

[pima67]

You are a bit west of my old high school (1076 W Roosvelt)

 

[ToolPolisher]

Any updates to your battles with the city?

 

[TheDrivenGarage]

Lost the battle with the city and got smacked down to 20 x 24, but was able to keep a 12 foot wall. Going to be posting more details as the build is underway

 

[RoninB4]

Lost the battle with the city and got smacked down to 20 x 24, but was able to keep a 12 foot wall. Going to be posting more details as the build is underway

-Did you submit "the envelope" for the inspectors? I lived in Chicago (Rogers Park, Dunning, Logan Square, Bucktown, etc) for 20+ years. Where are you? No need to be exact.

 

[pickles]

It seems like you might have waiting longer for your permit than I did when I built my garage five years ago. I’m looking forward to your updates.

 

[TheDrivenGarage]

Alright we have been busy. The garage is framed up. Its been a process. Not that smooth. The subs seem to have the standard garage they are used to building and though I was very very detailed in what I wanted to do, they didnt get the memo out to the crews.

I am going to write a larger retrospective but here is where I am now.

• Slab is poured, we ended up with a 6 inch (minimum thickness), 4000 psi, fiber in the mix, rebar 16 on center full grid with wire mesh, thickened with full footings, water ledge all around. But the water ledge is less than I wanted. I wanted 4 inch minimum all the way around. I have like 1.5 on one end and over 4 inch at the other. Frustrated about that. They also almost left out the vapor barrier, but thankfully they sent me a photo to show me their rebar work (they were proud), i felt bad to have to remind them about the vapor barrier...
• Sheathing is standard 1/2 wood, hydrogap house wrap, fully taped and flashed. Vinyl siding, though they offered an upgrade to Hardie Siding for $5,000. I declined.
• 12 foot walls, 2x6 framing, 16oc. To stay under the 15 foot overall height, we have a lower pitch 3:12 hip roof. We did a fully adhered ice/ water shield over the entire roof. Asphalt shingles.
• We ended up needing a firewall on one side of the garage as we are right on the line. That need for the firewall, meant we had to lose our eaves. Argh. So that changed the whole roof ventilation plan and now we have to build a sealed roof. So its going to be 6 inches of closed cell spray foam over the rafters and under the roof deck. This probably has me the most stressed because I have never had an unvented roof assembly.
• For insulation, I am on the fence. In the firewall we are going Rockwool R-23 as foam can't be in that assembly. The roof deck is R-40 spray foam, and i am debating foam for the final 3 walls, or stick with my Rockwool R-23 all around, including an layer between the joists, and a smart vapor barrier (Certainteed MemBrain). I would do all the insulation work outside of the foam.
• We are planning to install a mini split on a seperate permit but we put the insulation on this initial permit and put it through energy code review, so the mini split is easier later.
• For electric we have a 100 AMP subpanel in the garage, we are prewiring for a Tesla Charger and outdoor connection for the mini split. This subpanel was a big upgrade $$$, as before we had 60 but the conduit was rusted and the wires already overheated and stressed. so we needed to trench and run new conduit/ feeders to the basement. Luckily I have three 200 AMP services to my building as its currently configured as a 2 flat, and the garage has always been on its own panel. We are still hoping no gotchas at electric inspection and them forcing a panel upgrade, as the main garage panel is breaked at 100 AMP (thought it has 200 AMP available)
• For Garage doors, I have the main 16x8 door and a 6x8 party door. Both insulated. Though I didnt go wild with the insulation. The costs didnt seem worth it. We will see if I regret it, but going to focus on sealing around the door.

This brings us to today, they are hanging the doors! Here are some questions I have for you guys

1. The garage doors are high lift configured. How far from the joists should they be able to get the tracks? I have seem some videos that seem like the track is just ~3 inches off the ceiling. The garage door installer freaked out when i mentioned that, though we agreed in my contract to be 5 inches maximum to the bottom of the door. What is normal? They are working on this more tomorrow, they seem stressed.

2. For the insulation, any thoughts on spray foam vs Rockwool? The spray foam installer is highly regarded and I always wanted a spray foam building to try it out. The price difference isnt too bad as all of the garage doors take up wall space, and the firewall is not in scope.

Seeing it all come together has been awesome. But I have definitely had to be close on all of the trades. My overall GC though is engaged now, so I am confident we will land the plane. What am I missing? What should I be thinking about at this stage?

 

[TheDrivenGarage]

-Did you submit "the envelope" for the inspectors? I lived in Chicago (Rogers Park, Dunning, Logan Square, Bucktown, etc) for 20+ years. Where are you? No need to be exact.

Requesting inspection on Monday and then we can move on to insulation and such. I hear inspections can take a while? I am hoping not... I am on the west side of the city l, just west of Ogden and Roosevelt.

 

[RoninB4]

Requesting inspection on Monday and then we can move on to insulation and such.

-Hope that goes well, you could probably benefit from some insulation this time of year.

I hear inspections can take a while? I am hoping not...

-I've no direct experience with building inspections, just business operating permits. From the tales of others an inspection might/might not take a while, same thing as getting pulled over by some cops while driving. Some inspectors go by the book, some want an "envelope" for the inspection to go smoothly so it can depend upon how hefty the envelope is. When the inspector shows up I'd have a thermos of coffee and a box of assorted doughnuts ready on the site. How it goes from there will depend upon what else (goods/services/connections) you can offer and what the inspector wants. When my partners and I opened a business the "bag boy" came around suggesting our location might not be zoned for what we did. Rather than pay him we requested a meeting with the Alderman. We left that meeting without paying for an "operating permit" because the Alderman liked us. It can be the same with the inspector. All my info and contacts are at least 20 years old, I've got nothing else that could help you.

I am on the west side of the city l, just west of Ogden and Roosevelt.

-Hope you're not in the Lawndale neighborhood or that it's changed. It used to be a "full contact" hood with frequent shootings from competing gangbangers over turf control. Gunfights were somewhat common in Logan Square when I lived there but Lawndale was far worse back then. I wish you good luck and look forward to photos.

 

[billconner]

I don't think the inspection itself will take long. Getting it scheduled and how long - days or weeks - before inspector arrives would be my concern.

 

[NorthwestSideChicago]

Requesting inspection on Monday and then we can move on to insulation and such. I hear inspections can take a while? I am hoping not... I am on the west side of the city l, just west of Ogden and Roosevelt.

New to this forum. I live on the northwest side of the city. I too have a dilapidated garage and am looking to build a 2-2.5 car garage. Was hoping to build an office above but doesn't seem like an option in the city with the 15' max height. Were you overall happy with the builder? If so, would you mind forwarding me their info? I'm an electrical contractor by trade but most of the GC's I deal with really don't build garages. I'd like to get a lift inside so I can work on my vehicle more easily. Thanks!