Pole Barn interior framing

[evanmart]

Trying to figure out how I want to frame the interior of my small (20x20) pole barn workshop. I am a complete novice and have been searching through the archives and can't seem to find the answer to my question. I'm planning to run 2x4s horizontally on the interior wall mirroring the exterior girts. Batt insulation In between. Planning to finish with vertical wood boards, so the horizontal framing works for me. My main question: most guys I see do this go on the inside of the posts, which makes sense. But in an attempt to save some space, couldnt I frame the interior girts flush with the posts using blocking? not planning to toe them in, but rather use blocking, is that a good idea or bad idea?

any input would be appreciated

Thanks
Evan

 

[The Cobbler]

for non load bearing walls ( which is what you want to build ) you can pretty much do anything you want .
blocking nailed to the posts to nail your 2x in to is reasonable .

 

[BobnCO]

steal hat channel is more cost effective

 

[evanmart]

So, I completed my small pole barn this summer, 20x20, on concrete slab. Went with horizontal framing so I could attach vertical wood panels as my finish. Building looks great, but as we head in to winter, just discovered a dreaded moisture issue. The building is wrapped in Tyvek, then I insulated with faced fiberglass batts taped at the seams and sealed as best I could. 3/4" wood paneling as my interior wall. Today, I decided to check the walls (theres a spot where a water line comes through that didnt get covered with wood). I pulled some insulation away and found the back of the Tyvek to be soaking wet along with the back of the insulation.

Now, a couple things, I was recently engaged in an activity that was absolutely pumping moisture into my shop., I was able to pull a board off and check another spot and found one spot with slight moisture and another one was dry. I am assuming the warm moist air of my shop is getting through the less sealed portions of my faced insulation and hitting the cold exterior tyvek causing the condensation. I also assume the best remedy people would recommend is pulling the boards off and installing a vapor barrier? is this correct?

My one major question would be, if I cease the high humidity activity, do you think the situation would be rectified? I am in Southern PA, and only plan to keep the shop from freezing over the winter.

attic is well ventilated with blown in insulation on top of a metal ceiling and shows no moisture issues, its primarily in the walls.

Any input would be appreciated,
thanks

 

[rancherbill]

...The building is wrapped in Tyvek, then I insulated with faced fiberglass batts taped at the seams and sealed as best I could. 3/4" wood paneling as my interior wall. Today, I decided to check the walls (theres a spot where a water line comes through that didnt get covered with wood). I pulled some insulation away and found the back of the Tyvek to be soaking wet along with the back of the insulation.

Where are you located. I believe you are in a cold area. I believe you did not install a moisture barrier. From the outside coming inward is your siding, tyvek, wall / insulation, vapor barrier, interior finish.

 

[evanmart]

If i pulled my wood paneling off could I put a vapor barrier over the faced insulation? Then tack the boards back up? Would that solve the problem?

 

[billconner]

It seems like a good plan to me. I'm a big believer (in heating climates) in a really meticulous vapor barrier, and not in craft faced insulation.

I think your curtailing the high humidity actively will help, but have you mitigated other sources? Vapor barrier under slab? No storing firewood inside?

 

[rancherbill]

If i pulled my wood paneling off could I put a vapor barrier over the faced insulation? Then tack the boards back up? Would that solve the problem?

Yes, and do all the electrical receptacles, switches and lights. You're going to have to dry it all out first or mould will grow.

 

[evanmart]

It seems like a good plan to me. I'm a big believer (in heating climates) in a really meticulous vapor barrier, and not in craft faced insulation.

I think your curtailing the high humidity actively will help, but have you mitigated other sources? Vapor barrier under slab? No storing firewood inside?

I've mitigated the primary problem (Simmering Deer Skulls for taxidermy), it was a dumb idea, it was a sauna in there.

With that removed, and a dehumidifier running, I've got the moisture levels down in the shop and I pulled a couple boards off to spot check and the moisture seems to be drying...Only problem in spot checking is in doing so, I'm breaking some of the seals between the fibgerglass batts to feel behind them.

Is there any negative to adding a poly vapor barrier? For example, in the summertime, if the shop is air conditioned, would the reverse happen? moisture collecting from humid summer air on the backside of the vapor barrier which would again accumulate moisture in the insulation? or is the metal siding/tyvek wrap enough to mitigate those concerns.

 

[rancherbill]

Is there any negative to adding a poly vapor barrier? For example, in the summertime, if the shop is air conditioned, would the reverse happen? moisture collecting from humid summer air on the backside of the vapor barrier which would again accumulate moisture in the insulation? or is the metal siding/tyvek wrap enough to mitigate those concerns.

In my first post I asked where you were located.

The answer is different where you are located. There is a different answer and practices in Florida versus where I live.

 

[evanmart]

Southeast PA, Outside Philly, climate zone 4A as I understand it.

 

[billconner]

I would say the risk of condensation on a interior side vapor barrier with AC is very low in your climate. No greater than condensation in the craft paper.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

In Southern PA I believe your plan of adding poly is OK.
Often faced insulation is used as a vapor barrier, how well are the edges, ends and any tears in your bats sealed?

 

[evanmart]

I intended the faced insulation to be a vapor barrier but perhaps I didnt seal it well enough. I definitely didnt seal it super well around the outlets/etc.

 

[billconner]

no

I intended the faced insulation to be a vapor barrier but perhaps I didnt seal it well enough. I definitely didnt seal it super well around the outlets/etc.

I don't believe it's possible to seal craft paper. How do would you get it tight around a box? Unless you tape every vertical seam, it's going to leak.

I used the vapor barrier boxes and felt with the poly tight around flange, it was pretty tight.

 

[evanmart]

That looks great, Before I rip off all my interior wood paneling, is there any chance that by managing my interior humidity levels, I can minimize the condensation and any that does form will slowly diffuse through the Tyvek?/ dry out…
Just a last ditch thought before tearing out my finish work haha

 

[billconner]

is there any chance that by managing my interior humidity levels

Yes, but I don't know how you monitor and measure it. Relative humidity meters with probes are available, not expensive, so maybe installing on or two of them might give you an idea if condensation is imminent.

You might solve it by caulking seams and painting wood paneling. Depending on paneling, maybe just caulk.

 

[evanmart]

If I pull the boards off and add a vapor barrier, should I slash the kraft faces on my batt insulation ? or is that over-thinking it.

 

[billconner]

I don't believe that's necessary. It would be like slashing the underlapped poly at seams.

 

[evanmart]

In Southern PA I believe your plan of adding poly is OK.
Often faced insulation is used as a vapor barrier, how well are the edges, ends and any tears in your bats sealed?

Did a deep dive down the rabbit hole today on Vapor Barriers and trying to resolve my issues... can find many arguments for and against. Seems like alot of folks recommend against them for my area due to summertime humidity amongst other things.

If I pulled the walls off and meticulously sealed the kraft paper, sealing seams, spray foaming/sealing outlets, etc. do you think I could achieve the air prevention to stop moisture getting to the tin? This seems to make me feel a little better than poly, would still allow the walls to breathe a little bit if moisture would get in again.

 

[billconner]

Probably.

 

[mikedodge]

A portion of my pole barn is finished and has tyvek and vapor barrier. From what ive seen the insulation stays dry but I've always had a humidity problem inside the finished area in the warm part of the year that I run a dehumidifier to handle.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

If I pull the boards off and add a vapor barrier, should I slash the kraft faces on my batt insulation ? or is that over-thinking it.

I expect slashing the kraft paper would help speed drying the insulation. Might not be a bad idea if you are going to add poly.

 

[rancherbill]

Did a deep dive down the rabbit hole today on Vapor Barriers and trying to resolve my issues... can find many arguments for and against.

Look to you state govt for examples, go to Home depot and say you want and air and vapor barrier - they will tell you waht you need FOR YOUR AREA. Th internet will have many righ answers from all across the world that are wrong for where you live. Paper is neither an air or vapour barrier nowadays. Premium jobs do not rely on them anymore.

 

[Scotto]

I've mitigated the primary problem (Simmering Deer Skulls for taxidermy), it was a dumb idea, it was a sauna in there.

If it's Tyvek on the outside then it should breathe and the trapped vapor should definitely dry out. I woulnd't worry about adding an additional vapor barrier - your main issue was the deer skulls, lol. There's millions of homes with kraft-faced insulation with no problems. Sure, you may get some more moisture if you go boiling stuff again, but it can also get out over time.

 

[rancherbill]

I...There's millions of homes with kraft-faced insulation with no problems. ....

There's millions of home with the walls filled with newspapers. If he's going to RE-DO IT , it should be done right this time. Mold is a big issue in structures.