GFCI question

[threeputt]

I was planning on installing a 20 amp GFCI on the first outlet leaving my panel and my other four outlets would be protected. It wouldn't fit into the box as these boxes are old and shallow. I assume my only option is just spend the money and buy a 20 amp GFCI breaker in the service panel ? I don't want to run a new 12g wire from panel too all these outlets as its just way too much trouble.
I have a full basement and could just cut the wire and install the GFCI outlet there and save some money. I can get to it easy that way. Thoughts ? I could use an another outlet anyway in the basement.
I also need to change out the one outlet in our bathroom upstairs also and it looks like the 20 amp GFCI breaker would be the only option unless someone knows where I can find one that would fit in the shallow boxes.

 

[chinboys]

If space permits in your walls... Cut the power to that first receptical, carefully break the drywall, wall panel, etc. And pull off the shallow electrical box and install a newer deeper retrofit box.

 

[yatg]

might try one of these

 

[mike93lx]

FYI, you do not need s 20a receptacle. 15a is fine on a 20a circuit

 

[threeputt]

If space permits in your walls... Cut the power to that first receptical, carefully break the drywall, wall panel, etc. And pull off the shallow electrical box and install a newer deeper retrofit box.

I tried that. There is not enough room. Thanks

 

[threeputt]

might try one of these

I will give that one a go and see if I can get it to fit. Thanks

 

[threeputt]

Also to add. I have lived in this house for 50 years . It was built in 1958 . I had a new 200 amp service panel in 2008 and ran a few updated 12/2 wires where I could get to them.
The one problem I have is in my kitchen I have a 1000 watt counter top oven that pulls right around 10 amps when first turned on. I also have a 1000 watt coffee maker and microwave ( that pulls up to 17 amps ) on the same circuit. There is nobody but my wife and I and she knows never to run but one of these at a time.
I installed a 20 amp outlet where the microwave is plugged it. I know I need to run a new wire from panel to microwave and keep it separated but it would be a pain to do . Again we only use one of these at a time . I do have a 20 amp outlet where it plugs in and like I said we never use it with anything else plugged in.
I just wanted to install a GFCI in the first run because I needed to replace that outlet.

 

[Copymutt]

Exactly what I went through in our home built in 57. I bit the bullet and rewired B4 I got any older

 

[Steve W.]

I was planning on installing a 20 amp GFCI on the first outlet leaving my panel and my other four outlets would be protected. It wouldn't fit into the box as these boxes are old and shallow. I assume my only option is just spend the money and buy a 20 amp GFCI breaker in the service panel ? I don't want to run a new 12g wire from panel too all these outlets as its just way too much trouble.

What size wire currently runs from the panel to your first outlet location?

If it's not already 12g wire, you should not put a 20 amp GFCI in there.

.

 

[threeputt]

What size wire currently runs from the panel to your first outlet location?

If it's not already 12g wire, you should not put a 20 amp GFCI in there.

.

Its 12 gauge in all my home except Stove , Clothes Drier and Heat Pump . I discovered last year that the idiot I hired back in 2008 to install the new 200 amp panel put four 30 amp breakers in the panel on 12 gauge wires . I didn't check behind him back then because I assumed he knew what he was doing. These were wires run into my living room and other places in the home. Good thing I didn't overload these circuits . I removed the 30 amp breakers and put new 20 amp ones in. These were probably all the so called electrician had in his truck so he stuck them in. They were old looking also and the other 20 amp ones were newer looking. Sad that people do this. I also never asked if he was actually a license electrician which I doubt he was but I was working for a living back then and never checked.

 

[PossumDog]

I have shallow boxes with the same problem, I had to find the "slim" GFCI and they fit.
You could add a new box and GFCI outlet to be first in line.
If you don't need the receptacle maybe deadfronts are slimmer?
You could surface mount a box over the old box. Ugly but increases volume.

Ultimately I've been adding GFCI or dual AFCI/GFCI breakers one at a time. A GFCI duplex outlet costs $15-20, my breakers cost $55, not a dealbreaker. And not that much more work, especially compared to prying old boxes out of the wall.

 

[threeputt]

I have shallow boxes with the same problem, I had to find the "slim" GFCI and they fit.
You could add a new box and GFCI outlet to be first in line.
If you don't need the receptacle maybe deadfronts are slimmer?
You could surface mount a box over the old box. Ugly but increases volume.

Ultimately I've been adding GFCI or dual AFCI/GFCI breakers one at a time. A GFCI duplex outlet costs $15-20, my breakers cost $55, not a dealbreaker. And not that much more work, especially compared to prying old boxes out of the wall.

Thanks for the info. I had it all planned out last weekend knowing which outlet was the first one from panel but soon found out that I couldn't get the GFCI in because of the shallow old box. My wife didn't want the surface mount one and we do use that outlet a lot with the small counter top oven. I will go to HD today and see if I can find one of those slimmer GFCI. The 15 amp one will be fine on the first one because that oven is all that is plugged in and it only pulls about 9 amps.
They show them online but I couldn't find them when I went back but maybe today I can. I will also pick one up for my only outlet in the bathroom which I do use everyday.

 

[PelicanPines]

They make stand alone GFCI units... that can be installed in a SURFACE mounted box... you can place it between the Breakers and that first outlet.

I learned about them when wiring my "Shore House" to give the small bedrooms an extra inch... they rotated the 2x studs 90 degrees... making the walls **** thin.

 

[Norcal]

They are not pretty but Wiremold extension boxes, that are used to start a run of Wiremold from a existing outlet will work when the box is too small for a bulky device.

Legrand Wiremold 500 and 700 Series Metal Raceway 15/16 in. Deep 1-Gang Starter Box, White BW5 - The Home Depot

This Wiremold Legrand Metal Surface Raceway Starter Electrical Box, White is ideal for surface mounting small amounts of electrical wiring.

www.homedepot.com

 

[mike93lx]

Thanks for the info. I had it all planned out last weekend knowing which outlet was the first one from panel but soon found out that I couldn't get the GFCI in because of the shallow old box. My wife didn't want the surface mount one and we do use that outlet a lot with the small counter top oven. I will go to HD today and see if I can find one of those slimmer GFCI. The 15 amp one will be fine on the first one because that oven is all that is plugged in and it only pulls about 9 amps.
They show them online but I couldn't find them when I went back but maybe today I can. I will also pick one up for my only outlet in the bathroom which I do use everyday.

15a and 20a receptacles have the same internals, don't worry. It's code acceptable to use duplex 15's on a 20a circuit. Only difference is the plug style on the 20's, which you don't need in a residential kitchen

 

[Ilikeike]

Like posted above, you could just get the correct extension box, if it's not obtrusive in the space.

 

[Zeke]

1958 so likely plaster interior walls. Old work boxes are tough to use in lath and plaster, but not impossible. A little fireproof foam goes a long way to help stabilize a loose box install. Just give it a day and yank away. I've seen nail on boxes for old work that have nails properly installed from the inside. You just slip these into your cutout, predrill so the nails or screws don't end up sending the box too deep.

The problem with a new box in line is that there is normally not much slack to get enough wire into the new splice box to make it up. This is where Wago's come in handy to make a pigtail. For the GFCI you would use the Wago's just to extend the line and load wires.

 

[walta]

If space permits in your walls... Cut the power to that first receptical, carefully break the drywall, wall panel, etc. And pull off the shallow electrical box and install a newer deeper retrofit box.

I have replaced boxes without damaging the wall. I slip a metal cutting Sawzall blade between the box and the stud and cut the two nails. Remove the now free box and replace it with a deeper old work box.

Walta

 

[threeputt]

I believe I can do that. Thanks

 

[threeputt]

1958 so likely plaster interior walls. Old work boxes are tough to use in lath and plaster, but not impossible. A little fireproof foam goes a long way to help stabilize a loose box install. Just give it a day and yank away. I've seen nail on boxes for old work that have nails properly installed from the inside. You just slip these into your cutout, predrill so the nails or screws don't end up sending the box too deep.

The problem with a new box in line is that there is normally not much slack to get enough wire into the new splice box to make it up. This is where Wago's come in handy to make a pigtail. For the GFCI you would use the Wago's just to extend the line and load wires.

Knotty Pine Paneling is in the kitchen and den. My wife covered the kitchen walls 40 years ago with some sort of thin wall paneling . I can probably cut a place through it to put a larger outlet box.

 

[nadogail]

Old Work Boxes and Sawzalls solve many problems.

 

[Meursault74]

They are not pretty but Wiremold extension boxes, that are used to start a run of Wiremold from a existing outlet will work when the box is too small for a bulky device.

Legrand Wiremold 500 and 700 Series Metal Raceway 15/16 in. Deep 1-Gang Starter Box, White BW5 - The Home Depot

This Wiremold Legrand Metal Surface Raceway Starter Electrical Box, White is ideal for surface mounting small amounts of electrical wiring.

www.homedepot.com

Knotty Pine Paneling is in the kitchen and den. My wife covered the kitchen walls 40 years ago with some sort of thin wall paneling . I can probably cut a place through it to put a larger outlet box.

Here's mine in my laundry room. The GFCI was a tight squeeze without it.

one inch made all the difference........................ that's what she said.

 

[threeputt]

I think I will just install a 20 amp GFCI breaker and be done with it. Change all the outlets on that run to the three plug ones. The one outlet in my bathroom is also needing replacement. Ceramic tile with small outlet box like kitchen. I can do the same with the GFCI 20 amp breaker on that circuit. Wouldn't this work just as good ?