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Power failures & GFCIs

LopezBart

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Oct 13, 2023
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Lopez Island, WA
Last night a power outage/surge apparently tripped a GFCI outlet in our pump house. This outlet has the heating tape plugged into it, and sure enough the pipes froze up (it's currently 11F and blowing 25 mph here). I've reset the GFCI outlet and am waiting to see what's damaged, but is this a common issue? If so, that outlet is getting replaced with something more reliable.
 
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P0234

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NoVA
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LopezBart

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Oct 13, 2023
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Lopez Island, WA
YoLink is the sleeper of the smart device category, they have some really great stuff that has silly range and amazing battery life. Nice app and integrations with many HA platforms. I have driveway sensors, leak detectors, power loss and some other motion/alarm stuff. Really love the platform.
I'll check this out. Thanks!
 

BrandonV

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Arizona
Call me paranoid but if the power is out and doesn't come back I'll shut the main breaker.

I've had way too many cooked things when it comes back.
 

sparky 1971

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Oct 9, 2018
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Central Iowa
Bummer.

What brand GFCI was it? I've seen a ton that trip by default on a power cycle. You might want to find one that will return to a functional state.

I can't speak for all brands but I use P&S and they trip as soon as they are energized the first time, but AFAIK, it's a one time thing.

I don't have any heat tape but if I did I promise there wouldn't be a GFCI near it. It would be just like my sump pump, refrigerators, and freezer, among other things.
 
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BrandonV

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so youve left stuff on?

Every damn time I'm a little lazy and I say, "oh let me turn off just these breakers instead of the main" it seems like I forget some expensive gizmo.

Just a few weeks ago power was out for about half the day. I turned off the breakers to the AC and other "major" appliances but left a home office/bedroom powered so I could continue working immediately once service was restored.

Power is restored I go out, turn all the breakers one at a time and when I got back to the bedroom I smelled a STRONG ozone odor. I figured it was the corona on the laser printer heating up but the stench continued for hours.

I go to print a shipping label from my home office and the label printer isn't doing jack. Come to find out it wasn't the laser printer but the power brick for the laser printer grenading itself.

Luckily everything worked after I cobbled a new one out of a Dell laptop adapter I was about to trash.
 

mike93lx

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Dec 9, 2013
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38,398
Location
Richmond, VA
Every damn time I'm a little lazy and I say, "oh let me turn off just these breakers instead of the main" it seems like I forget some expensive gizmo.

Just a few weeks ago power was out for about half the day. I turned off the breakers to the AC and other "major" appliances but left a home office/bedroom powered so I could continue working immediately once service was restored.

Power is restored I go out, turn all the breakers one at a time and when I got back to the bedroom I smelled a STRONG ozone odor. I figured it was the corona on the laser printer heating up but the stench continued for hours.

I go to print a shipping label from my home office and the label printer isn't doing jack. Come to find out it wasn't the laser printer but the power brick for the laser printer grenading itself.

Luckily everything worked after I cobbled a new one out of a Dell laptop adapter I was about to trash.
I'll regret saying it, but I have never lost a device from an outage.
***** thay you've had multiple
 

wyliesdiesels

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Aug 14, 2012
Messages
20,179
Location
Modesto, CA
Every damn time I'm a little lazy and I say, "oh let me turn off just these breakers instead of the main" it seems like I forget some expensive gizmo.

Just a few weeks ago power was out for about half the day. I turned off the breakers to the AC and other "major" appliances but left a home office/bedroom powered so I could continue working immediately once service was restored.

Power is restored I go out, turn all the breakers one at a time and when I got back to the bedroom I smelled a STRONG ozone odor. I figured it was the corona on the laser printer heating up but the stench continued for hours.

I go to print a shipping label from my home office and the label printer isn't doing jack. Come to find out it wasn't the laser printer but the power brick for the laser printer grenading itself.

Luckily everything worked after I cobbled a new one out of a Dell laptop adapter I was about to trash.
ok but turning the breakers off is no different than the power just shutting off. so something doesnt make sense here
 

BrandonV

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ok but turning the breakers off is no different than the power just shutting off. so something doesnt make sense here

I'm pretty sure when the power came back on there was some sort of surge. My neighbor lost something too with the last outage.

My only reason for turning off the main breaker is to prevent a surge or whatever being connected to the grid when all couple hundred homes came back.
 
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LopezBart

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Lopez Island, WA
Our house has whole-panel surge protection(Square D Q0 panels), but I've still seen some GFCI/AF breakers trip on power events.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Modesto, CA
I'm pretty sure when the power came back on there was some sort of surge. My neighbor lost something too with the last outage.

My only reason for turning off the main breaker is to prevent a surge or whatever being connected to the grid when all couple hundred homes came back.
There should be no surge when the power comes back on.

even if there was one, surge protectors have clamping voltage ratings (usually around 400VAC) and below that they will not do anything
 

BrandonV

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Arizona
There should be no surge when the power comes back on.

even if there was one, surge protectors have clamping voltage ratings (usually around 400VAC) and below that they will not do anything

All I know is when the utility returns from an outage in my neighborhood a neighbor or myself loose something.

The utility is very cryptic about what happens most of the time. All of our service is underground back to the substation.
 

P0234

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NoVA
All I know is when the utility returns from an outage in my neighborhood a neighbor or myself loose something.

The utility is very cryptic about what happens most of the time. All of our service is underground back to the substation.
Dude, what's your problem? Just print out this thread and show it to the next appliance that breaks and tell it to fix itself....DUH....
 

BrandonV

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Dude, what's your problem? Just print out this thread and show it to the next appliance that breaks and tell it to fix itself....DUH....

Jokes aside to get back on topic for the OP.

I was looking and I figure that any of the commercial or "hospital grade" GFCIs are probably not going to trip on a power loss. I've always seen that with the cheap ones at the big box store.

Any of those new fangled ones with a self-test mode required by UL now probably don't act like this.
 
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LopezBart

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Lopez Island, WA
Update: Defrosting the pump house took most of yesterday in terms of time; the pipes freed up first thanks to the heat tape and after I aimed a small propane heater at the well tank for a few hours it finally started working again. No apparent damage, so we got lucky. The well tank is getting a insulating cover and I'm going to replace the GFCI outlet today with a regular outlet. Our efforts last year to have a 275 gallon tote full of water in the (daylight) basement w/ an RV pump & battery was definitely worthwhile. It's nice having a backup water supply; we can deal w/o power for a while, but water is pretty important.

The weather is up to a balmy 20F and no wind - much nicer.
 

yyc_ranger_4x4

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Jan 23, 2011
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90
Location
Calgary, Ab
I get the need to not rely on a GFCI tripping and taking out necessary things like fridges, freezers, etc. Personally I don't like them being on GFCI receptacles either.....but heat trace, I've seen too many that have failed and caused stray currents. To preface, I'm a commercial electrician and get a ton of calls for heat trace troubleshooting in the fall/winter. A standard GFCI receptacle trips 5-10mA, and they're designed for protecting people. Equipment GFCI units can be set up to 30mA, and I recommend a dedicated controller like this for heat trace....but they can be costly. If you know how to set it up, a ground fault indicator unit could be used as well with a small buzzer in the event it senses an unbalanced current or ground fault.

Unfortunately....I've also seen where people have been shocked and seriously injured from ground fault currents. Choose wisely about removing GFCI protection.....especially on water pipes or anything that could be touched by yourself or family.
 
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