Executive summary: I have a frantic HVAC tech (that has never been to my house) trying to scare me into getting an electrician to fix my loose neutrals.
So I'll try to make this as short as I can, its a bit of a long story....
Last winter when it was really cold (5 degrees, that's cold in VA!) I got some errors on my Rheem Econet thermostat panel about DC Voltage being low at the inverter, the code was t905_o inverter fault - dc bus undervoltage. It went away, I figured it was either a power surge or just the cold causing the inverter to have a hard time starting up. Fast forward to last week, another cold snap, this time the error kept coming up. I also heard crackling from the heat pump breaker in my house panel. I turned the breaker off and I had the HVAC company come out and look at the unit, that's when things started to get a little weird.
The tech spools up the unit, gets the errors and notes we're dropping to 160 volts on the disconnect. He also tells me he heard crackling sounds coming from the meter base (of note here, the meter, panels and heat pump are all within 3 feet of each other). Says I have a power issue, to call an electrician or the power company for a free check. He writes me up, I pay, he says he diconnected the heatpump but left the resistance/emergency heat on for me. I come back in the house and notice he's turned off my furnace (resistance heater) in addition to turning off the breaker and removing the quick disconnect for the heat pump. I have no heat at this point, I luckily we heat mostly with wood and use the heat pump to fill in the dips.
Next day I have an electrician come out. he observes the crackling sound at the breaker like I did, notes the low voltage on the unit and notices I have a bad breaker that has fused itself to the bus bar. This panel is one of the Challenger panels notorious for having bad breakers. No other major issues on the main panel, some moderate discoloration on one side of the bus, which he said is typical for the age/panel. Luckily I have one unused circuit that is not used. He moves the heat pump circuit to that slot, installs a new breaker. We power on the heat pump, it spools up to full RPM, he measures voltage, zero drop at full speed now. Not wanting another burnt slot, I ask him to replace the breaker for the furnace, he's says not a bad idea. He goes and looks at the resistance/emergency heat/coils/whatever you want to call them and can't from the labels figure out what the total amp draw should be. There is an unobtanium 110 amp breaker currently in the panel, I'd prefer to replace it with a 100 as they are still reasonably priced ($80 vs almost $300). He says no problem, call the HVAC company and get me what the spec is on the unit so we don't overload the breaker. He also notes its time to start thinking about new panels and gives me a quote.
And that's when it really starts to get weird. I call the HVAC company and ask for the specs on the furnace/resistance heat.. I get this guy that is downright frantic. He's not the original tech, apparently he's the one the first guy called for help on this issue. I explain that I had an electrician out, he identified the issue and fixed it. He is ADAMANT that I call the power company, he says I've been doing this for 30 years, you have a loose neutral, the other tech heard your meter crackling (he's really frantic about this). I say ok, can you please get me the breaker specs so I know I have the right size breaker for the furnace and that I'll call to have the power company look at it. He says he will look up the spec and email me. I hang up, call the PoCo.
PoCo comes out, takes meter out, checks wires, says no signs of arcing or heat. He kind of chuckles at the loose neutral comment and says glad you called, better safe than sorry.
Not having gotten my specs yet, I reach out again to Mr. Frantic HVAC tech. He completely berates me for even asking for the specs, says you have a neutral issue, I've seen houses burned down with this. I calmly explain to him again that I had an electrician identify I problem as well as go over both panels. He proceeds to tell me I need another electrician that the one I had doesn't know what he is doing. He again brings up the crackling meter and that I need to call the power company. I'm getting pretty pissed this point but staying cool on the phone. I tell him look, I had the power company out, they found nothing. He then starts to tell me that the electrician is incompetent and that I need to get another one. He then says that the other tech opened the panel in the garage to measure the voltage, I don't think this is true, and if it is, he really shouldn't have been in there.
My goal is to replace the panels in the spring, the quote from the electrician seemed more than fair from what I've read here and other places about costs. What would you do at this point? I'm tempted to call another sparky and then send the bill to the HVAC company if they don't find anything but then I think its just going to be a waste of my time. As things stand, everything is working fine, though I would like to get a new breaker on the furnace until spring just to be extra safe.
What would you do?
So I'll try to make this as short as I can, its a bit of a long story....
Last winter when it was really cold (5 degrees, that's cold in VA!) I got some errors on my Rheem Econet thermostat panel about DC Voltage being low at the inverter, the code was t905_o inverter fault - dc bus undervoltage. It went away, I figured it was either a power surge or just the cold causing the inverter to have a hard time starting up. Fast forward to last week, another cold snap, this time the error kept coming up. I also heard crackling from the heat pump breaker in my house panel. I turned the breaker off and I had the HVAC company come out and look at the unit, that's when things started to get a little weird.
The tech spools up the unit, gets the errors and notes we're dropping to 160 volts on the disconnect. He also tells me he heard crackling sounds coming from the meter base (of note here, the meter, panels and heat pump are all within 3 feet of each other). Says I have a power issue, to call an electrician or the power company for a free check. He writes me up, I pay, he says he diconnected the heatpump but left the resistance/emergency heat on for me. I come back in the house and notice he's turned off my furnace (resistance heater) in addition to turning off the breaker and removing the quick disconnect for the heat pump. I have no heat at this point, I luckily we heat mostly with wood and use the heat pump to fill in the dips.
Next day I have an electrician come out. he observes the crackling sound at the breaker like I did, notes the low voltage on the unit and notices I have a bad breaker that has fused itself to the bus bar. This panel is one of the Challenger panels notorious for having bad breakers. No other major issues on the main panel, some moderate discoloration on one side of the bus, which he said is typical for the age/panel. Luckily I have one unused circuit that is not used. He moves the heat pump circuit to that slot, installs a new breaker. We power on the heat pump, it spools up to full RPM, he measures voltage, zero drop at full speed now. Not wanting another burnt slot, I ask him to replace the breaker for the furnace, he's says not a bad idea. He goes and looks at the resistance/emergency heat/coils/whatever you want to call them and can't from the labels figure out what the total amp draw should be. There is an unobtanium 110 amp breaker currently in the panel, I'd prefer to replace it with a 100 as they are still reasonably priced ($80 vs almost $300). He says no problem, call the HVAC company and get me what the spec is on the unit so we don't overload the breaker. He also notes its time to start thinking about new panels and gives me a quote.
And that's when it really starts to get weird. I call the HVAC company and ask for the specs on the furnace/resistance heat.. I get this guy that is downright frantic. He's not the original tech, apparently he's the one the first guy called for help on this issue. I explain that I had an electrician out, he identified the issue and fixed it. He is ADAMANT that I call the power company, he says I've been doing this for 30 years, you have a loose neutral, the other tech heard your meter crackling (he's really frantic about this). I say ok, can you please get me the breaker specs so I know I have the right size breaker for the furnace and that I'll call to have the power company look at it. He says he will look up the spec and email me. I hang up, call the PoCo.
PoCo comes out, takes meter out, checks wires, says no signs of arcing or heat. He kind of chuckles at the loose neutral comment and says glad you called, better safe than sorry.
Not having gotten my specs yet, I reach out again to Mr. Frantic HVAC tech. He completely berates me for even asking for the specs, says you have a neutral issue, I've seen houses burned down with this. I calmly explain to him again that I had an electrician identify I problem as well as go over both panels. He proceeds to tell me I need another electrician that the one I had doesn't know what he is doing. He again brings up the crackling meter and that I need to call the power company. I'm getting pretty pissed this point but staying cool on the phone. I tell him look, I had the power company out, they found nothing. He then starts to tell me that the electrician is incompetent and that I need to get another one. He then says that the other tech opened the panel in the garage to measure the voltage, I don't think this is true, and if it is, he really shouldn't have been in there.
My goal is to replace the panels in the spring, the quote from the electrician seemed more than fair from what I've read here and other places about costs. What would you do at this point? I'm tempted to call another sparky and then send the bill to the HVAC company if they don't find anything but then I think its just going to be a waste of my time. As things stand, everything is working fine, though I would like to get a new breaker on the furnace until spring just to be extra safe.
What would you do?
Last edited:
![20240111_213620[1].jpg](/forum/data/attachments/1877/1877998-af772e4af87b09d46943493d7a6290ba.jpg)
![20240111_213639[1].jpg](/forum/data/attachments/1877/1877999-0b6005b2c2b33e340f9c23db8a57caa9.jpg)
