Best circuit configuration for lights

[Coolball]

I've been tossing this around a bit and still not exactly sure how best to run the circuits to my shop lights. The fixtures are 30k lumen high bay and each draws 1.79 amps. The shop part of the building (50x100 barndominium) is 50x75, it's red iron so with the columns it basically is three bays. Each bay will have a total of 6 fixtures. I want them to be able to be switched separately from each walk in door and there's 4 doors, one on each wall of the building. This would put 3 switches at each door in combinations of 3-way and 4-way for a total of 12 switches. What I'm trying to hanmer out is dealing with the total circuit distance and voltage drop going from switch to switch around the shop then to the fixtures. I need some insight on this one.

I haven't started rough in or put the fixtures up yet, but there's going to be two sub panels at the half way point on each of the 100' walls. It doesn't really save much distance on the lighting circuits having to run from switch to switch any way I configure it. The runs are ~200' best guess with 8 amps. I was reading about how the amps drop at each fixture down the line and only the first one sees the full load so maybe it's not an issue, but worthy of asking for the best way to do this. These are 120/277 fixtures running on 120v.

 

[Coolball]

 

[Shiftless]

That’s too hard for me to calculate. Maybe an expert will chime in. Rough spitball guess is that you’ll be OK with voltage drop as long as you use 12ga. wire.

Did you do a calculation to support your decision to use that many fixtures with such a high lumen rating? My 75 year old eyes like plenty of illumination but your plan sounds like more than plenty. Less lighting overall and some specific task area lightning might be a better way to go.

You might consider an option where only one of them lights up for the times you just need to go in for something and don’t need operating room levels of light to find that little screw you dropped.

 

[mike93lx]

Have you considered motion detectors? Quality sensors can have good range and it would simplify the wiring considerably

 

[Coolball]

That’s too hard for me to calculate. Maybe an expert will chime in. Rough spitball guess is that you’ll be OK with voltage drop as long as you use 12ga. wire.

Did you do a calculation to support your decision to use that many fixtures with such a high lumen rating? My 75 year old eyes like plenty of illumination but your plan sounds like more than plenty. Less lighting overall and some specific task area lightning might be a better way to go.

You might consider an option where only one of them lights up for the times you just need to go in for something and don’t need operating room levels of light to find that little screw you dropped.

I was originally going to use a light switching panel but the build has gone over budget so I have to cut costs and the panel and switches are expensive compared to regular switches and more cable. They were on closeout at the electrical supply house. It's a lot of light, although the ballast are 0-10v dimmable so I can keep them low and crank them up when needed. It's also the reason why I want to keep them separated in groups so they aren't all on at the same time.

 

[Coolball]

Have you considered motion detectors? Quality sensors can have good range and it would simplify the wiring considerably

This might be a solution. I was originally going to use lutron wireless pico remotes and a light panel combined with occupancy sensors. The budget won't allow it at this point

 

[mike93lx]

This might be a solution. I was originally going to use lutron wireless pico remotes and a light panel combined with occupancy sensors. The budget won't allow it at this point

I'd be tempted to have a light in each bay on one occupancy sensor so the whole space has some light when you are in there, then do maybe two or three zones each on their own sensor.

In my garage, I have one fixture on a sensor and the rest are on a switch. It's been great when I walk in carrying stuff and I don't worry about the lights getting left on

 

[American Locomotive]

My unsolicited opinion: While the concept of being able to turn all 3 bays on from every entrance door sounds ideal, it's really super unnecessary. With your current configuration, my calculations are showing you're going to be pulling (and purchasing) well over a quarter mile of wire just to turn on lights in your shop!

Pick the door you will be leaving from most often. Put 3 switches there to control all three bays. Then, setup a single 3-way and 4-way switch at each door to control only the middle (or whatever) bay. Or as others mentioned, just have a couple of lights be motion activated, and the rest on the switch.

Another option is using a wireless switch. Most of the systems are configurable, so you can have multiple switches controlling one relay station (or even vice versa). The battery powered wireless switches are very inexpensive, and (in my experience) pretty reliable. If you don't like the idea of batteries, they have kinetic wireless switches (you pushing the button gives it power), and they're also super reliable - but more expensive.

 

[Coolball]

My unsolicited opinion: While the concept of being able to turn all 3 bays on from every entrance door sounds ideal, it's really super unnecessary. With your current configuration, my calculations are showing you're going to be pulling (and purchasing) well over a quarter mile of wire just to turn on lights in your shop!

Pick the door you will be leaving from most often. Put 3 switches there to control all three bays. Then, setup a single 3-way and 4-way switch at each door to control only the middle (or whatever) bay. Or as others mentioned, just have a couple of lights be motion activated, and the rest on the switch.

Another option is using a wireless switch. Most of the systems are configurable, so you can have multiple switches controlling one relay station (or even vice versa). The battery powered wireless switches are very inexpensive, and (in my experience) pretty reliable. If you don't like the idea of batteries, they have kinetic wireless switches (you pushing the button gives it power), and they're also super reliable - but more expensive.

It's all welcome in an effort to sort through the process. I designed the original to use wireless, the problem I ran into was that most wireless switches are only rated up to 8 amps where as each bay in this case will have a max of 11A. What you say makes sense and combined with the suggestion of occupancy sensors, I may have a solution somewhere in between.

Lutron makes a 0-10v dinner switch that can be combined with a hardwire power pack relay that will switch up to 16A and control up to 3 occupancy sensors. The equipment is affordable and will simplify the install. I will forgo the switches at the auxiliary doors and put occupancy sensors in each of the bays. Since the lights are on a dimmer switch, this will accomplish control of light levels in each bay as well as not having an all on/off scenario.

 

[nadogail]

I once calculated that I would be better off with all my lights home run to the entry door to on individual switches. Since then I put Solar Panels on the roof and my cost of electrical energy has become very little. At present the Utility says I have a large credit in my account. I am conservative but I no longer need to worry about the hourly cost of lighting.
Solar Panels and LED lights have come a long way.

 

[Coolball]

I once calculated that I would be better off with all my lights home run to the entry door to on individual switches. Since then I put Solar Panels on the roof and my cost of electrical energy has become very little. At present the Utility says I have a large credit in my account. I am conservative but I no longer need to worry about the hourly cost of lighting.
Solar Panels and LED lights have come a long way.

That's the ultimate plan for my project. I designed a system with a couple of ground mount arrays in key spots since I'm in the woods and buried the conduit to the locations while I was doing the ground work. My utility also does net metering so I installed a solar ready meter main. All the architecture is in place and when the money allows I will install the equipment. I guess full timing in an RV for the last couple of years has made me very usage aware

 

[sparky 1971]

If it were mine I would make it so all of the lights can be turned on and off from the door I will be using the most with one bay of lights being turned on and off from the other doors in case I would happen to come in one of those doors. But, since this isn't mine and what I think doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, why not use three relays with each of them being controlled from the doors? Take the lighting circuits from the panel to a box with the contactors, go from the contactors to the fixtures, then have a control circuit to one set of switches, travelers from switch to switch to switch, then switch legs from the last set of switches to control the relays. Depending on where the panel is and where the relay box is set, it might cut down considerably on the amount of wire used.

 

[pizza]

i'd be looking at zwave relays and homeassistant.

this controller:

Zooz 800 Series Z-Wave Long Range USB Stick ZST39 LR

NEW 800 SERIES LONG RANGE! PRODUCT HIGHLIGHTS All NEW 800 Series Z-Wave Long Range radio USB stick: incredible signal, super secure, and fast network! Long Range available for US only NOTE: Do NOT perform NVM backup from 500 series or 700 series Z-Wave sticks for this device, this feature is...

www.thesmartesthouse.com

some relays are on sale right now. i'd go with 800-series chips if possible

https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/collections/4th-of-july-zooz-super-sale-2024

 

[Coolball]

If it were mine I would make it so all of the lights can be turned on and off from the door I will be using the most with one bay of lights being turned on and off from the other doors in case I would happen to come in one of those doors. But, since this isn't mine and what I think doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, why not use three relays with each of them being controlled from the doors? Take the lighting circuits from the panel to a box with the contactors, go from the contactors to the fixtures, then have a control circuit to one set of switches, travelers from switch to switch to switch, then switch legs from the last set of switches to control the relays. Depending on where the panel is and where the relay box is set, it might cut down considerably on the amount of wire used.

There's two doors I have to have to have full on/off control at. The door from the living quarters and the shop front door. I found a hitch in the giddy'up with my occupancy sensor idea where the control switch has to be ON in order for the sensors to function. So what I was thinking is similar on how you describe, but using a combo of 3-way to 4-way switch setups running back to the dimmer switch which in this case is effectively the contactor for the relays. I think I will only put one switch at the side door since it won't be used much (and it's also furthest away for wiring) and have it control one bay of lights.

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Setup would be:

Side Door - panel/3-way (at side door)/4-way (at shop entry)/dimmer switch (at living quarters)/light relay (for middle bay #2)

Shop Entry (x2 ckts) - panel/ (2) 3-way (at shop entry)/ (2) dimmer switch (at living quarters)/light relays for bays 1&3

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This would control voltage to the dimmers from each door and give me all three bays at the living quarters entry and shop front door. Sound about right?