Estaimte to survey property

[dcg9381]

For you guys doing this work, has GPS made this job easier at all? If you can sync to enough satellites, my understanding is the the GPS reading can be very accurate. And can provide altitude via triangulation. I get that finding the pin will always be a thing (if there is one).

 

[MikeC55]

Thanks for the advice guys. I did get a couple more estimates that were higher. One guy said $4K but he was so busy it would be 2 months out. When I acted surprised (I wasn't really acting), he asked what other quotes I had gotten and thought $2500 was a good price. Gulp... On the bright side, I talked to the town clerk office again (a different person) and lo and behold, she did know there were hard copy old maps that she could scan for a small fee. The deed referenced map number was there and I now have a copy. It's from 1951 and before the parcel was subdivided into 1 acre lots (it's a 12 acre parcel). But it does show the eastern and northern borders of my property (and noted stone walls are still there). I'm going to poke around tomorrow and see if I can find anything looking like a marker. Maybe that will help with price... You would still think there had to be a survey when they subdivided the 12 acre parcel tho.. not sure how to chase that down, I know I'll have to get the plot plan done anyway for a building permit.

 

[driftpin]

there had to be a survey when they subdivided the 12 acre parcel tho.. not sure how to chase that down

In whose name was the property recorded when it was platted into 1 acre plots? Do a Clerk of Courts record search for that name. The county Engineering Dept. may also have records relating to the parcel platting. Means of egress to any interior parcels (rights of way) would need to have been provided as you cannot have a land-locked parcel without a right-of-way being provided. The land for a right-of-way is usually deeded over to the local government. I suspect the Engineering Dept for your county should have a map for that.

 

[NDJ]

Important here is to determine what the surveyor is actually going to deliver to you. I got a quote to survey my lot, $2200, But when I asked what I physically got from him for that , Well I didnt get a hard answer on deliverables. ??

 

[Old Moparz]

Thanks for the advice guys. I did get a couple more estimates that were higher. One guy said $4K but he was so busy it would be 2 months out. When I acted surprised (I wasn't really acting), he asked what other quotes I had gotten and thought $2500 was a good price. Gulp... On the bright side, I talked to the town clerk office again (a different person) and lo and behold, she did know there were hard copy old maps that she could scan for a small fee. The deed referenced map number was there and I now have a copy. It's from 1951 and before the parcel was subdivided into 1 acre lots (it's a 12 acre parcel). But it does show the eastern and northern borders of my property (and noted stone walls are still there). I'm going to poke around tomorrow and see if I can find anything looking like a marker. Maybe that will help with price... You would still think there had to be a survey when they subdivided the 12 acre parcel tho.. not sure how to chase that down, I know I'll have to get the plot plan done anyway for a building permit.

The tax office may also have a map but it's usually different than the one used for the subdivision. It may not be as detailed or have the measurements of the property lines but it wouldn't hurt to get a copy because it might have something on it that could help. Don't be shocked if the tax map has different lot numbers.

The deed description may reference the type of survey markers that were used. Some of the common ones are....

Iron Pipe (Literally a round pipe driven into the ground)
Iron Pin (Metal rod or rebar driven into the ground)
Cross Cut (Letter "X" chiseled into concrete or a stone in the wall)
Wooden Stake (Rarely used for property corners but sometimes)
Centerline Reference (The center of the road but not marked)

One last thing I remembered is that if any of your adjacent neighbors have had a survey done in recent years you can ask which surveyor they used. There's a good chance that they might have the information you need for your own property. Their property lines are also your property lines.

 

[Blueshound_GJ]

The tax office may also have a map but it's usually different than the one used for the subdivision. It may not be as detailed or have the measurements of the property lines but it wouldn't hurt to get a copy because it might have something on it that could help. Don't be shocked if the tax map has different lot numbers.

The deed description may reference the type of survey markers that were used. Some of the common ones are....

Iron Pipe (Literally a round pipe driven into the ground)
Iron Pin (Metal rod or rebar driven into the ground)
Cross Cut (Letter "X" chiseled into concrete or a stone in the wall)
Wooden Stake (Rarely used for property corners but sometimes)
Centerline Reference (The center of the road but not marked)

One last thing I remembered is that if any of your adjacent neighbors have had a survey done in recent years you can ask which surveyor they used. There's a good chance that they might have the information you need for your own property. Their property lines are also your property lines.

On old deeds I've seen things like "an oak stump", "MacGregor's shed", and a "bend in the river" mentioned as reference points (from the 1800s).

 

[Innovate1]

We bought 30 acres and when we went to sell off a couple large chunks the surveyors found an error and we really had 31 acres! When we put up a detached garage recently it was far enough from the property line that they accepted a site plan that was just an aerial view from Google maps that I sketched in the added building and some approximate distances. I don't recall what the survey fees were that were done about 15 years ago.

 

[dcg9381]

Important here is to determine what the surveyor is actually going to deliver to you. I got a quote to survey my lot, $2200, But when I asked what I physically got from him for that , Well I didnt get a hard answer on deliverables. ??

Good point. I made sure they could send me the CAD file.

 

[MikeC55]

I learned a little more today. I walked the property and found one iron pipe with a flag on it, so it couldn't be too old. Another corner had some yellow paint sloppily applid to some of the rocks on stone wall, which may be a marker (but not very precise). With the big parcel map I have, which has lengths and angle details, I believe they could mark the other corners in reference to it. There is also a small kink on one side where a large boulder sits. You can see the stone wall change angles there. I don't know the name of whomever subdivided the properties, unless it's the person for whom the map was drawn (which is on there) in 1951. Attached is one section of the map showing my boundaries, with the one in red I estimated based on distances in deed. The house position is approximate and I think I have around 40' to nearest set back. But unless I can come up with an existing survey showing the house, I don't think I have any choice but to pay up.

 

[P0234]

Does your town have a GIS site with your property and pictures of your buildings?

 

[dcg9381]

But unless I can come up with an existing survey showing the house, I don't think I have any choice but to pay up.

I dunno how it works there, but if you bought that house (vs built it) and had a loan, likely there was a title company for title insurance.
At that title company will be a survey, because pretty much every lender everywhere requires one. Here, you can just ask at the title company for them to look up your "file". They want your business in the future.

 

[MikeC55]

I have a certifcate of title, which is from an attorney office, not a title co. The title has the name of seller and mentions 'land and buildings thereon', so I'm thinking he was a builder or had a builder construct the house on his property and then sold the package. The law office is no longer extant, so I would really have to dig to see who might have ended up with these records. I did search the town on-line real estate records and it appears some kin of the original owner have transacted real estate in the same area but nothing going back this far. I'll have to ask town clerk if there is anything hard copy related to the seller in the time frame of 1956...

 

[MikeC55]

Clerk says I'll have to go in and look at hard copies of old land documents. What's strange is that the deed references this old 1951 survey (which is prior to subdivision) and gives measurements of the subdivided property relative to that. If a survey map was drawn at the time of house construction or at least at time of subdivision of parcel, why would it not be referenced on deed? I'm thinking maybe this was the cheap way they used to let people get away with permits at the time...

 

[LOW1]

On the scale of things a 1951 survey is a modern, almost brand new one. Its the ones from the early 1800s which label things like "100 feet towards the tree beginning from the mouth of the creek" that give you fits. Especially when all the trees burned down 100 years ago and the creek was diverted two miles upstream in 1849 to serve as the sluice for the local grain mill.

 

[MikeC55]

Lol! Yea, I hadn't thought about it that way but you're right. I'm sure the stone walls have been there for a long time..

 

[LOW1]

Lol! Yea, I hadn't thought about it that way but you're right. I'm sure the stone walls have been there for a long time..

With the metes and bounds description your surveyor will be able to locate the point within one inch. And probably less.

 

[aka Larry]

I'm also in the survey business, and $2500 sounds reasonable, possibly cheap. Most people don't realize there is more to a survey than the time it takes on the actual site. The research involved at the courthouse can be really extensive/time consuming on really old properties. Time is money of course.

 

[MikeC55]

It was worth the $2,500. Especially so because my orignal plan would have been over the rear setback by over 10' (50 ft setback). I tried to get a variance but the zoning board would have none of it. As it is, the new plan brings one corner of the addition to within 2' of the rear setback.

 

[PopcornSutton]

In today's time, there will be more "office" time involved than field work. There isn't a so-called survey crew anymore, cause GPS has made that obsolete. One person can do it all.

When I started in commercial construction, I was on a "layout" crew for the work. It was basically a survey crew, somebody has to paint a line on the ground, or shoot an elevation, etc. We worked in 3 man crews. If you were laying out for curb and gutter for a road as an example, you would locate and drive hubs with a stake every 50 feet and also at every change of direction. Then come back and shoot an elevation of each if those hubs. A "cut sheet" was made to give the workers. Using the hub locations and the elevation of the hubs with the plan elevation, they went to work.

With GPS and CAD software, it is all computed for you, one man can do it all.

 

[code-sloth]

The front of our property was recently surveyed for utilities near the road so there are two pins marked. In total it's a rectangle so we're just missing two corners at the back. Originally I thought the $850 quote was a bit much for a tish over half an acre but reading this thread it seems pretty good!

That's cheap for peace of mind when planning out building sizes.

 

[PCustoms]

This thread was bumped this morning by someone spamming all the GPS threads.

They got deleted.

 

[LOW1]

The term “survey” can mean different things to different people. Find out exactly what is required.

If you are required to obtain a true and recordable survey and plat $2500 is very reasonable. The survey company will need to send out two workers to obtain “in the field” measurements and then will need to prepare the plat.

And boundaries which are marked by old stone walls instead of proper modern “pins” can become a surveyor’s nightmare.

 

[John in OH]

I don't think $2,500 is excessive for a survey of older property.

There are a many factors that go into a survey not the least of which is finding a reliable existing monument as a starting point. We recently had one of our farms in Ohio resurveyed ... old description was the " three rods from a rock on north side of oak tree ..." type of description. To establish a reliable reference point the surveyor had to begin his survey from a monument at the corner of the original land section and work his way out to our farm.

Final product was a very detailed coordinate-based description of the 240 acre property (turned out we actually owned about 4 acres more than we thought!!). Make sure your surveyor drives steel pins at each corner and at any change in lot-line direction.

Also, after you get the survey completed, call 811 (Call Before You Dig) and get a utility review done. It's free in Ohio and will flag any and all utilities that may have a right-of-way on or adjacent to your property. My daughter is considering a house build on this property and the 811 review flagged an old natural gas well gathering line ROW that crossed near her tentative site ... we had NO IDEA the pipeline existed!!

I'd never consider building ANYTHING on a piece of old property without a survey and property description by a licensed surveyor and an 811 review.

 

[Montauket]

I needed to apply for construction permits with the town last year for a total home rebuild. Complete recordable with plat survey was $750 for my half acre lot. I'd shop it around.

 

[backupbeeper]

I don't think $2,500 is excessive for a survey of older property.

There are a many factors that go into a survey not the least of which is finding a reliable existing monument as a starting point. We recently had one of our farms in Ohio resurveyed ... old description was the " three rods from a rock on north side of oak tree ..." type of description. To establish a reliable reference point the surveyor had to begin his survey from a monument at the corner of the original land section and work his way out to our farm.

Final product was a very detailed coordinate-based description of the 240 acre property (turned out we actually owned about 4 acres more than we thought!!). Make sure your surveyor drives steel pins at each corner and at any change in lot-line direction.

Also, after you get the survey completed, call 811 (Call Before You Dig) and get a utility review done. It's free in Ohio and will flag any and all utilities that may have a right-of-way on or adjacent to your property. My daughter is considering a house build on this property and the 811 review flagged an old natural gas well gathering line ROW that crossed near her tentative site ... we had NO IDEA the pipeline existed!!

I'd never consider building ANYTHING on a piece of old property without a survey and property description by a licensed surveyor and an 811 review.

Nothing on the deed about an easement or r o w for the gas line ??

 

[Sumboodie]

I just had my lines marked. They put stakes every 50-75ft. Survey was done 2 years ago but was just corners.
Was almost $1000.
$2500 seems cheap.

 

[John in OH]

Nothing on the deed about an easement or r o w for the gas line ??

Nope! Absolutely nothing in the deed. And nothing on the property that would indicate that any gas line was present. It was only a pure accident that we found the line via an 811 request for other utilities. I subsequently went to the county Recorder's office and they were able to find the one-page ROW agreement (I am totally impressed with how the Recorder clerk could plow through all those old records and find what she was looking for!).

 

[Jazz1]

neighbour wanted me to go half on a survey,,,i said no and staked corners of property…he paid $1600 for official survey to drop stakes beside my stakes..FFS there are steel posts in the ground my area…a metal detector find them in a heart beat!!

 

[no704]

 

[no704]

Paid $1300 for the above a couple months ago. In Tempe az

 

[Sumboodie]

Where is the yard? Or even park stuff?

 

[no704]

Park stuff?

 

[Bill T]

As long as the discussion has drifted away from the original question, I will tell my surveyor horror story. Forty-five years ago, my father, who was always looking for a deal, found some property in Galax,Virginia. He wanted to build a place for he and my Mom to vacation in the mountains. The property faced a ski area. The "deal" was for 50 acres. The property had never had a modern survey. The corners were marked by structures like "the big rock" or "the large cherry tree", etc. ... . Again this was many years ago,and my father was looking for a deal........ He talked the surveyor into a low price by volunteering my brother and I to cut the property lines and drag the chain. I don't know if any of the readers are familiar with mountain laurel, but the settlers called it laurel hell (and it was). The property was straight up the side of a mountain. We used bush axes to gnaw our way through the laurel. My brother and I were past exhaustion when we finished being the surveyor's "hey boys".
After all was said and done, my father ended up not buying the property. The water rights were somehow goofed up and my dad called off the deal. Pay the price to get a good survey.

 

[Bullman]

Prices vary a lot based on location, property size, and how detailed the survey needs to be. Some folks manage to get quotes on the lower end, while others see prices that seem way too high. It’s good to get at least a couple of quotes before deciding. I’ve seen discussions over at dubaiownersclub where people shared similar experiences with different property services, and getting multiple opinions always helped.

 

[finn]

Going to also depend on what platting and legal descriptions are available. The farther back the surveyor has to go to find reliable marks, the more it's going to cost. At one of our places, they had to back up to a mark over a thousand feet down the street to get a known location, as the county had wiped out the closer ones during some road work about 20 years prior.

This. The surveyor I spoke with pretty much told me the same thing. If the closest marker is recent and within a reasonable distance, the cost would be in the $750-1200 range.

If not, it could be $2000 and up, and this was five years ago.