SEOOW Vs SJOOW

[600SL]

Hello Gentlemen

I have two questions regarding SEOOW and SJOOW wire. The application is for a garage lift so the cable will never see the garage floor, as it will be on a twist lock plug on the ceiling.

My first question is that every wire I have ever seen in use is rated at 600V, including 14ga romex to my Plasma cutter with 8/3 using SEOOW cable on a 240V circuit. Therefore is 300V SJOOW acceptable for this application and why is 600V insulation used every where.

Second question, I see that multiple suppliers list the 10/3 SEOOW and SJOOW as good for 30 amps but the 10/4 is only good for 25A. I want to put a convenience 120V receptacle on my lift so the 4 conductor is required. I was hoping to put these on 30A circuits with a 25A/20A CB on the lift itself. Will I need to go to 8/4 to do this? I was wondering if the 25A rating was maybe based on 3 phase which this is not.

 

[930dreamer]

Wouldn't 4 conductors be a 240V circuit?

 

[600SL]

Wouldn't 4 conductors be a 240V circuit?

2 conductors plus ground total 3 is all that is required for just 240V
3 conductors plus ground total 4 gives you 240V and 120V availability.

But new 240V appliances appear to be 4 conductor. I have no idea what they are doing with that accept maybe some of the internal circuitry needs 120V.

 

[mm08822]

SJ is 300volt rated. Works great for 120/240vac applications. even 277v. SJ= junior hard service.

SO is 600volt rated. Works for 120/240, 277/480vac applications even 600vac, not that I would want to see that use in cordage. SO= hard service.

SO costs more than SJ. However, it covers the voltage spectrum with one product. Only 1 product to inventory.

3 conductor cords only have 2 current-carrying conductors. 30a for #10
4 conductor cords can have 3 current-carrying conductors. 25a for #10.

I doubt your lift needs 30a @ 240v. Put in a 2pole 20A cb and you're good to go with the recept (which should only be ocp'd @ 20a anyway.

 

[600SL]

SJ is 300volt rated. Works great for 120/240vac applications. even 277v. SJ= junior hard service.

SO is 600volt rated. Works for 120/240, 277/480vac applications even 600vac, not that I would want to see that use in cordage. SO= hard service.

SO costs more than SJ. However, it covers the voltage spectrum with one product. Only 1 product to inventory.

3 conductor cords only have 2 current-carrying conductors. 30a for #10
4 conductor cords can have 3 current-carrying conductors. 25a for #10.

I doubt your lift needs 30a @ 240v. Put in a 2pole 20A cb and you're good to go with the recept (which should only be ocp'd @ 20a anyway.

Thanks

That answered the questions. My lift will work on a 20A CB but 25A is recommended by the manufacture. But I also never lifted over 6000# on a 9000# lift.

 

[pattenp]

Use a 25A breaker if available for your panel. But the problem will be the 120V convenience outlet will max at 20A, so that kills the use of a 25A breaker.

 

[Snapped-off]

Wouldn't 4 conductors be a 240V circuit?

Sometimes you just need a hot, neutral, and ground for 240.

 

[mm08822]

Sometimes you just need a hot, neutral, and ground for 240.

Depends on the continent.

 

[Snapped-off]

Depends on the continent.

Referring to the USA.

 

[mm08822]

Referring to the USA.

Where's this at?

 

[Snapped-off]

Where's this at?

Pick a state, good chance it's there.

 

[600SL]

Use a 25A breaker if available for your panel. But the problem will be the 120V convenience outlet will max at 20A, so that kills the use of a 25A breaker.

I use a separate breaker on the lift, with 240V/120V.

https://www.amazon.com/Siemens-Q22025CT-25-Amp-Circuit-Breaker/dp/B0052MDP5S/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[mike93lx]

Where's this at?

The OP is in Connecticut. What's the point of arguing about non-us electrical standards?

 

[mm08822]

I use a separate breaker on the lift, with 240V/120V.

https://www.amazon.com/Siemens-Q22025CT-25-Amp-Circuit-Breaker/dp/B0052MDP5S/?tag=atomicindus08-20

A 2pole 25A in your main panel then a Siemens-Q22025CT on the lift will cover the 20A ocp needed for the recept. Recept needs to be gfci protected.

 

[mm08822]

The OP is in Connecticut. What's the point of arguing about non-us electrical standards?

No argument. Just a question.

 

[Snapped-off]

The OP is in Connecticut. What's the point of arguing about non-us electrical standards?

It's not though anymore. In fact you'll probably find it most abundant in VA.

 

[pattenp]

I use a separate breaker on the lift, with 240V/120V.

https://www.amazon.com/Siemens-Q22025CT-25-Amp-Circuit-Breaker/dp/B0052MDP5S/?tag=atomicindus08-20

So you're going to put a subpanel on the lift. I was assuming you were just trying to tap off the feed to a 120V receptacle.

 

[600SL]

A 2pole 25A in your main panel then a Siemens-Q22025CT on the lift will cover the 20A ocp needed for the recept. Recept needs to be gfci protected.

That is the idea. But I would like to put a 30A in the main panel as my current 4 post lift recommends 25 but I will also be getting another 2 post lift which is TBD.

 

[600SL]

So you're going to put a subpanel on the lift. I was assuming you were just trying to tap off the feed to a 120V receptacle.

Correct the 4 wire cord will feed a 2 space subpanel on the lift which is used as an emergency shut off for the lift as well as the 120V duplex AFCI/GFCI receptical.

 

[pattenp]

Correct the 4 wire cord will feed a 2 space subpanel on the lift which is used as an emergency shut off for the lift as well as the 120V duplex AFCI/GFCI receptical.

Did you consider using flex conduit with #10 thhn stranded conductors?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Correct the 4 wire cord will feed a 2 space subpanel on the lift which is used as an emergency shut off for the lift as well as the 120V duplex AFCI/GFCI receptacle.

how are you gonna fit a double pole breaker and a single pole breaker in a 2 space subpanel?

also you dont need AFCI.

 

[mm08822]

how are you gonna fit a double pole breaker and a single pole breaker in a 2 space subpanel?

also you dont need AFCI.

He has planned for a quad cb in the lift's 2 slot sub-panel. 20a, 25a--25a, 20a.

 

[mm08822]

That is the idea. But I would like to put a 30A in the main panel as my current 4 post lift recommends 25 but I will also be getting another 2 post lift which is TBD.

You need a 25A not a 30A to be code compliant....your call.

A second lift won't matter unless you happen to run both at the same time. I doubt that will happen and if it does, a 30A may not hold.

 

[600SL]

how are you gonna fit a double pole breaker and a single pole breaker in a 2 space subpanel?

also you dont need AFCI.

This will do it, My inspector made me put in AFCI. I don't think he was right about that.

 

[BrandonV]

also you dont need AFCI.

Makes you wonder where these inspectors come up with this stuff. Hope nobody uses brushed tools in their garage.

 

[theoldwizard1]

SO costs more than SJ. However, it covers the voltage spectrum with one product. Only 1 product to inventory.

"S - hard service cordage" has thicker insulation.

Cordage is typically de-rated. 12 AWG cordage is typically rated for 15A, compared to 12 AWG NM-B which is rated to 20A.

 

[mm08822]

"S - hard service cordage" has thicker insulation.

Cordage is typically de-rated. 12 AWG cordage is typically rated for 15A, compared to 12 AWG NM-B which is rated to 20A.

There are even more construction differences but the question was about voltage rating and ampacity.

Not so on the ampacities. 12-3 SO/SJ is rated for 25A, if 2 ccc's and 12-4+ SO/SJ rated for 20A if only 3ccc's in use at any one time. Read NEC 400.

For long manufactured cord sets, the mfr does provide distance/amperage suggestions. Those generally lighter duty cords...homeowner grade.

 

[600SL]

Makes you wonder where these inspectors come up with this stuff. Hope nobody uses brushed tools in their garage.

My 1/2" in drill tripped it, but so far that's it. They were also really expensive receptacles.

 

[theoldwizard1]

so on the ampacities. 12-3 SO/SJ is rated for 25A, if 2 ccc's and 12-4+ SO/SJ rated for 20A if only 3ccc's in use at any one time. Read NEC 400.

For long manufactured cord sets, the mfr does provide distance/amperage suggestions. Those generally lighter duty cords...homeowner grade.

According to a chart I found here, (NEC Table 400.5) the RECOMMEND length for a 12/3 cord carrying 20A is only 47'. Not recommended for over 20A.

 

[mm08822]

According to a chart I found here, (NEC Table 400.5) the RECOMMEND length for a 12/3 cord carrying 20A is only 47'. Not recommended for over 20A.

The link you provided is a random website which includes a copy of NEC Table 400.5 showing #12 cord @25A and 20A and a seperate table for voltage drop considerations.

Temperature, length and #ccc ampacity adjustments always apply to both cordage or cable. Cable being a bigger concern to me b/c it is generally permanent wiring vs an extension cord typical of cable usage (not exclusively) being for random, short-term, portable, intermittent use.

Your statement, "Cordage is typically de-rated. 12 AWG cordage is typically rated for 15A, compared to 12 AWG NM-B which is rated to 20A." is misleading.

 

[600SL]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm not going to loose any sleep with a 25A breaker and 4/4 10ga SJOOW. They are 9000# lifts but I never lifted over 6000# in the 20 years If had it. For reference, here is a picture of a 240V/120V sub panel installed on my lathe. I plan to do the same on the lift using a 25A 240V/20A 120V breaker. For my two post lift I will probably end up hard wiring it but the 4 post lifts are movable so connecting the sub panel with a twist lock connector on the ceiling is really where the flexible chord comes in.