Metal cutting chop saw
- Thread starter bluedog225
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bluedog225
Well-known member
I’ve got a bunch of 4‘ sticks. Pieces will be about 4”
mbunimog
Well-known member
I use an old Milwaukee band saw for cuts like that
billconner
Well-known member
No question a horizontal band saw would be better than a chop saw and if doing it regularly I'd get one.
Better than an abrasive chop saw, correct.
However, not better than a metal cutting saw with a metal cutting blade.
I love my Milwaukee band saws, have one for free cuts and one in a vice with a table. However neither cut as straight as the metal saw.
That said if the band saw cuts well enough and I only was getting one tool... the Bandsaw is in first place. (Maybe cut proud and hit with a sander to get plum.)
dr_clyde
Well-known member
I do NOT recommend you try this on 3/8" x 4" x 4" angle. You're asking for trouble. That is some serious angle, not something most people are cutting at home.
Chop saws meant for steel have a vise on the saw to hold the material. Wood chop saws do not. One snag (easy to do on angle) and it's all over. You don't have enough grip to hold the material.
A horizontal bandsaw is the way to go here. Quiet, inexpensive and can be used on lots of things. If you don't want to buy one, sub it out to a shop.
I would avoid the "dry cut" style saw. They're EXTREMELY loud, messy and not nearly as versatile as a bandsaw. They fling screaming hot chips everywhere and generally are unpleasant to use.
A portaband is an option, but that will be skill testing on you to keep it straight.
I would also recommend a bandsaw. One of the 4x6 ones would work well for this application. You can usually find them used for sale in the $100+ range. Buy a good blade 10/14 from LA Cutting Products and set up a stop for repeatability. Then you can just let it do the work while you are doing other things near by.
LopezBart
Well-known member
If you've not done it before, angle should be cut in a bandsaw with the angle point sticking up in the air (e.g. ^ ) and the vice cranked down hard; the cut should be started gently by hand to avoid excessive load on the bandsaw teeth on the initial engagement. Once at least 3 or 4 teeth are in contact with the metal, you can let the full weight of the saw bear down on the cut.
A 4x6 bandsaw is a great tool; I've been using mine for several decades. If one keeps the speed down and avoids using coarse blades on fine metal, they're the most economical way of cutting metal at home. The bi-metallic blades definitely pay off over time. I've added an adjustable microswitch and relay to mine to shut-off the motor when the cut is finished; the original design had an arm that flicked the toggle off.
A 4x6 bandsaw is a great tool; I've been using mine for several decades. If one keeps the speed down and avoids using coarse blades on fine metal, they're the most economical way of cutting metal at home. The bi-metallic blades definitely pay off over time. I've added an adjustable microswitch and relay to mine to shut-off the motor when the cut is finished; the original design had an arm that flicked the toggle off.
RMERR
Well-known member
I'd vote for the carbide blade metal cutting saw like the Evolution 380. Yeah a little messy, but square clean cuts. Not to mention much faster. They're like $500 but you'll find other uses once you have it. If the price is prohibitive and this really is the only time you'll ever need it, find a shop that'll do it and farm the job out. Used tool is also an option, but carbide metal chop saws don't seem to come up much, where as 4 X 6 horizontal band saws are a dime a dozen on CL or FB marketplace in my area.
Maui
Well-known member
In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, I'd go to Craigslist or Marketplace and buy a Porter Cable Port-A-Band. You should be able to find one for around $100, and it would make short work of this project. And you'd have it down the road for other work. They are incredibly useful.
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Bessy
Well-known member
I have to recant the end part of my last post, because not long after posting I stumbled across a 2hr old post on Kijiji for a 4×6 craftex bandsaw on a stand. $225, I gave him $200 and ended up with three blades (one brand new). He was a retiree millwright, and I think he said he had two or three other saws, and he was slowly downsizing a few items. He was a cool fellow, walked me through the entire saw, demoed a cut of 1-1/4" angle iron, cut like butter even with the older blade on it.
Now I suppose this means I need to get some steel, and make that console table my wife and I have been talking about for like three years.
The bandsaw vs TCT saw debate has become pretty commonplace around here. The fact thay there's even a debate means you can probably get away with either one. That said, I've owned and used both extensively and here are my thoughts.
Everything the detractors say about TCT saws is true. They're loud, throw hot chips, and the blades are expensive. But, they're (relatively) cheap, they make beautiful straight cuts right out of the box, they're fast, and you can typically get blades at Home Depot. The vise can make or break these saws. Look for the stoutest base, and most robust vise you can find. This usually adds some cost but it's worth it.
Unlike TCT saws, which which are all pretty similar given a blade size and minor differences in construction, bandsaws vary wildly from portabands to very large saws with hydraulic downfeeds and flood cooling systems. For our purposes, I assume we're discussing smaller benchtop type horizontal bandsaws in the same cut capacity range as a TCT saw.
First of all, a portaband is a seriously useful tool and I own three sizes in corded and cordless, but you really shouldn't assume you can make repeated straight cuts with a portaband. If you have one of the stands that converts one into a horizontal style, you might be okay but it's still going to be fiddly.
Second, a mitering head is super, duper helpful. It makes dialing in angles so much easier than the vises in a typical 4 x 6, I don't think I could ever go back.
So given those two recommendations, you're looking at a class of benchtop bandsaws that are going to range in capacity from just below a 14" TCT saw, to just above. Then there's other considerations like single speed vs a few speeds, vs continuously variable speed. Also, manual vs spring assisted down feed vs hydraulic downfeed. And adjustability in the blade guides. And of course the base construction just like the tct saws (cast vs stamped sheetmetal). You're going to be looking at a bare minimum price range that's on par with some of the upper end tct saws, but you'll be back in the black after a half dozen blades.
All that said, if I had all the money in the world, I would never use another tct saw. Bandsaws are just such elegant machines. A joy to use, lots of flexibility in blade choices based on your material and thickness, quiet enough to use in my garage without waking my kids, the possibility of a very narrow kerf, the option to use coolant or not, the ability to walk away from the saw on a long cut, and consistently excellent results with well adjusted blade guides.
Good luck!
Everything the detractors say about TCT saws is true. They're loud, throw hot chips, and the blades are expensive. But, they're (relatively) cheap, they make beautiful straight cuts right out of the box, they're fast, and you can typically get blades at Home Depot. The vise can make or break these saws. Look for the stoutest base, and most robust vise you can find. This usually adds some cost but it's worth it.
Unlike TCT saws, which which are all pretty similar given a blade size and minor differences in construction, bandsaws vary wildly from portabands to very large saws with hydraulic downfeeds and flood cooling systems. For our purposes, I assume we're discussing smaller benchtop type horizontal bandsaws in the same cut capacity range as a TCT saw.
First of all, a portaband is a seriously useful tool and I own three sizes in corded and cordless, but you really shouldn't assume you can make repeated straight cuts with a portaband. If you have one of the stands that converts one into a horizontal style, you might be okay but it's still going to be fiddly.
Second, a mitering head is super, duper helpful. It makes dialing in angles so much easier than the vises in a typical 4 x 6, I don't think I could ever go back.
So given those two recommendations, you're looking at a class of benchtop bandsaws that are going to range in capacity from just below a 14" TCT saw, to just above. Then there's other considerations like single speed vs a few speeds, vs continuously variable speed. Also, manual vs spring assisted down feed vs hydraulic downfeed. And adjustability in the blade guides. And of course the base construction just like the tct saws (cast vs stamped sheetmetal). You're going to be looking at a bare minimum price range that's on par with some of the upper end tct saws, but you'll be back in the black after a half dozen blades.
All that said, if I had all the money in the world, I would never use another tct saw. Bandsaws are just such elegant machines. A joy to use, lots of flexibility in blade choices based on your material and thickness, quiet enough to use in my garage without waking my kids, the possibility of a very narrow kerf, the option to use coolant or not, the ability to walk away from the saw on a long cut, and consistently excellent results with well adjusted blade guides.
Good luck!
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Bessy
Well-known member
Out on a limb here, but I'd say it's a combination of ultra thin kerf, and a vastly greater number of teeth. My (very basic) reasoning is telling me, with the smaller, closer together teeth (and the dust backs this up) that a much smaller amount of material is removed by each individual tooth, contributing to less noise, less waste, and cooler operating temperature on account of an elongated blade having a longer "out of cut" period to cool down.
My big gripe with band saws (though I do feel they are superior) is that they can be a pain to really dial in in terms of accuracy, and if you don't get the set up and the feed rate both right, you run the risk of the blade wandering a bit more than say a solid TCT or Abrasive blade. I've seen some band saws make some pretty nutty wows in material before.
Under_Pressure
Well-known member
A big part of it is blade speed and blade length. Moving the blade slower, and allowing teeth more time to cool between being required to remove material, makes a huge difference. A typical cheap 4 x 5 bandsaw has a blade speed range of 85-195 FPM, and a 64 1/2" blade. So at 100 FPM a given tooth will engage the material 18.6 times per minute. A typical dry cut saw, in comparison, has a 14" diameter blade (~44" circumference) turning (or at least trying to, in the cut) 13-1400 RPM, giving a surface speed of ~5000 FPM- approx 50 times the surface speed with 68% of the blade length. And obviously a given tooth contacts the work each revolution, so 13-1400 times per minute. Clearly a huge difference. The other major factor is, as noted, the concept of a bandsaw itself, which uses the principle of tension to allow the use of a very thin blade relative to the loads being placed on it, and thus minimal kerf.
If you look at a true cold saw- a low-speed circular saw with flood coolant- a typical 14" model has blade speeds of 26 or 52 RPM. Do the math, you end up with 81 or 190 FPM surface speed - numbers more in line with a typical bandsaw. Since a given tooth will engage the material 26 or 52 times per minute it is much closer to the bandsaw, but still a bit higher. This goes to show the drawback of a circular blade configuration- your effective blade length is limited by what diameter you can practically use. These saws also use blades that have finer teeth and, in general, tend to be more like a round bandsaw blade (vs dry cut saw blades which have more in common with wood cutting chop saw blades than metal cutting bandsaws). Cold saws will last forever, much like a decent metal cutting bandsaw, as opposed to a dry cut saw which will eventually destroy itself. But, of course, the catch is that they are ~10 times the cost of a good dry cut saw, or of a cheap bandsaw of similar capacity. Which further proves the premise- the best combination of cost and performance for cutting metal is, by far, the bandsaw.
LopezBart
Well-known member
Thin material, of course, is the bane of bandsaw blades. The rule of thumb is at least three teeth in the cut at one time, which means if you're cutting .065 wall square tube, you need a finer blade than you can readily get.... so that's when the abrasive cut-off saw makes sense.
Thank you for the thorough explanations, gentlemen. It is so fascinating to learn about these subtleties
When you say thin material is the bane of bandsaw blades, what do you mean … the flexible bandsaw blade is more likely to deflect and yield a crooked cut? Or is it more damaging to the blade itself?
This is interesting because my primary use of a bandsaw is using a Portaband to cut EMT and unistrut for electrical work, neither of which are especially thick-walled.
When you say thin material is the bane of bandsaw blades, what do you mean … the flexible bandsaw blade is more likely to deflect and yield a crooked cut? Or is it more damaging to the blade itself?
Cutting thin, hard material with a bandsaw can put a lot of force on just a single tooth, which results in a broken tooth, which then results in more broken teeth, and a ruined blade. Keeping multiple teeth in the cut keeps any one tooth from taking a full depth cut, but if the spacing of the teeth is such that you can't get multiple teeth in the material...
Joemctag
Well-known member
A porta-band should do it if you cut each leg separately from the outside. Have to not make the blade bind. Like lay the angle on a wood 4 x 4 or something.That's a good idea ^^^
I have several Milwaukee Porta bands but have forgotten that for about $150 @ harbor freight will get one. Might not last like my 40+ years ($400 40 years ago) Milwaukee, but it'll do what you want. Neatly with your proper input.