This is a never ending money pit fml. I had these idiot contractors build me a pole barn and attach it to the back of my old garage/house. I had 2 4in drain downspouts at each corner of the house 1 went under ground 4 feet to the other side then down a little hill. I live in town and have limited property so the only way I could build this garage was to do it this way. They had to dig out a foot because my yard slopes up hill in the back so now the 2 garage doors are on the back side. While they drilled down 4 feet for post holes they hit those pipes there was a foot of water at the bottom of the holes they threw a bag of concrete in and set the poles. Smh. I came home saw the pipe disconnected and said don't those need to be hooked up? They said nah. We'll now when it rains water just pours in where the garage doors are supposed to be and my yard is just destroyed and full of a million rocks big mud hole. Idk wth todo I've rented a excavator 3 times now for these idiots to try to fix it and nothing is working. They dug a 2 feet trench around the hole garage and attached 4in corrugated pipe to down spouts running away from garage but there like 100ft runs the water. Will come out in the first 10 feet. I attached pics and it dosent help my neighbors yard is higher than mine and the property behind my garage is a big grassy hill so all there water is just gonna run to my house. Cluster f*** any advice would be appreciated thanks
30x40 pole barn attached to house massive drainage problems
- Thread starter notch352
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DGersic
Well-known member
An overhead of how this is all arranged in your property would help here. Use goooogle earth or something like that.
Some questions to help break this down:
1. Where did those downspouts drain to originally? Are they still draining there? If not, where do they drain to now?
2. The yard was well drained before the barn went up? If so, how?
3. Where does the barn roof drain to?
4. Was there a drainage plan as part of this build?
Mostly it’s going to hinge on what water you have, where is it, and where do you want it to go.
Water collected by the roofs will be the easiest to deal with if you’re already collecting it in gutters and downspouts. You need to establish where that water should go. “Down a little hill” sounds promising. Where does that lead, and can you use it?
Water in the yard will be harder to collect. You’ll need to dig in trenches and drain tile. It’ll be below ground, so you’re looking at some kind of sump / sumppump arrangement unless there’s somewhere else downhill you can gravity drain it to.
If you are downhill from the neighboring property, yes, you’re likely draining their water too. Some movement of earth to build a berm / swale to redirect that water would help, but you have to have somewhere to redirect it to.
Some questions to help break this down:
1. Where did those downspouts drain to originally? Are they still draining there? If not, where do they drain to now?
2. The yard was well drained before the barn went up? If so, how?
3. Where does the barn roof drain to?
4. Was there a drainage plan as part of this build?
Mostly it’s going to hinge on what water you have, where is it, and where do you want it to go.
Water collected by the roofs will be the easiest to deal with if you’re already collecting it in gutters and downspouts. You need to establish where that water should go. “Down a little hill” sounds promising. Where does that lead, and can you use it?
Water in the yard will be harder to collect. You’ll need to dig in trenches and drain tile. It’ll be below ground, so you’re looking at some kind of sump / sumppump arrangement unless there’s somewhere else downhill you can gravity drain it to.
If you are downhill from the neighboring property, yes, you’re likely draining their water too. Some movement of earth to build a berm / swale to redirect that water would help, but you have to have somewhere to redirect it to.
Sorry man, that *****, hopefully you have not given them final payment.
But keep it in perspective. Your house is not flooding and things aren't really getting damaged. With a cool head, work on a solution. Water flow is easy, it needs to go down hill. There are thousands of resources online and here to get you past this. Personally I'd pay for a drainage expert (a real one not one of the we fix your flooding problems in one day companies) to set you up with a plan on making it right.
But keep it in perspective. Your house is not flooding and things aren't really getting damaged. With a cool head, work on a solution. Water flow is easy, it needs to go down hill. There are thousands of resources online and here to get you past this. Personally I'd pay for a drainage expert (a real one not one of the we fix your flooding problems in one day companies) to set you up with a plan on making it right.
Ya I think when I put the 6in slab in it will help but I dont want water getting under the slab and cracking it. not sure how to pull up a map, the address is 113 e. Dezeng st clyde ny 14433 but I don't think the new garage will show on there. Yes never had drain problems previously and I have no clue where those drains went I was told by the previous owner he put them in 20 years ago because they were getting tons of water from the hill in the backyard but he said the pipes went 3 houses down to the sewer at the road which is like 500 feet away. Also my basement has that ever dry system. My old garage that the new garage is connected to geta extremely damn in summer because if the humidity and the floor will actually sweat with water. The floor is also cracked numerous places as well as my front patio which also cracked and sunk about a inch in 1 spot. Basement floor and walls are crack free. knock on wood. Currently I have the down spouts ran 3 feet underground with 10ft solid flex pipe that goes into another 10 feet section that's wrapper with a drqin sock and Styrofoam rocks with 6in of rock below them. I'm not having any problems with them. It's mainly the back of garage where the 2 overhead doors will be. Dosent help I only own 13 feet behind it in the Pics I posted you can see the hill in the background. My yard is a complete mud hole no grass and 20 million rocks so that dosent help but I've never seen so many rocks before you can not dig anywheres in my backyard by hand it's that full of rocks and some are really big.
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DGersic
Well-known member
Here’s the google maps link to where I think your property is.
113 E Dezeng St · Clyde, New York
maps.app.goo.gl
Is that it?
From your description of the changes / construction, this is what I think you have now:
The downspouts (green) were connected to something that was draining them somewhere. The barn (red) construction is behind the garage, and disconnected the downspouts (green), plugging their drainage path with concrete.
There is now some kind of small French drain in here somewhere. 10’ of pipe isn’t going to hold much water, and with that much water on top of the yard, clearly it’s not draining anywhere helpful. I assume this was your building contractor’s solution to having plugged the drain pipe for the downspouts. I’d dig that back out and get rid of it.
The now flooded area (yellow) is behind the barn, with a hill (blue) feeding more water on to your property.
Is that about right?
You have drainage routed to a storm sewer, three houses down. I think that might be here (blue), though it looks like there are closer sewer points that the previous owner could have tied in to.
I‘m wondering if your backyard used to be well drained because there was drain tile under it, connecting to those now plugged drain lines that run out to the sewer.
You probably need a plumber, with a camera and a locator, to find the drainage you had, figure out where it goes, and how it gets there. That would give you a way to get rid of the water. Any other information you can get from the previous owner on what he put in would be gold at this point.
Then you can start figuring out where in the remaining yard behind the barn to put some drain tile and how to connect it to the drainage out to the sewer.
Yes that's it. This is the drawing I got from old owner. If looking at the front of my house to the right is a hill as well thats 1/8mi long so im probably getting everyones water that way as well. This drawing does make sense since the pipes are running downhill that way. The pool is no longer there and was removed 6 years ago. I only own up until the front of that shed on the right. The back of the 2 trees are my property lines pretty much. I cant dig through my neighbors yards and driveways to run new lines and they would never be able to find where they went. And that street sewer is atleast 500 feet away in the pic below. I contacted the same company that originally installed those lines 20 years ago but they cant really remember what they did. Im holding off on the concrete being poured until something gets fixed but it did pour yesterday and i didnt get snywater in the garage now that i put a 4ft apron of crusher run back there tamped. The garage floor has also already been filled with 6in of crusher and tamped so really would hate to disturb that ground. Was thinking maybe to install a large channel drain around the right and back side with a exit pipe to where the yard starts going downhill on the left side of house pretty much dumping it on to my neighbors but idk what im doing. Appreciate the help
DGersic
Well-known member
Yes that's it. This is the drawing I got from old owner. If looking at the front of my house to the right is a hill as well thats 1/8mi long so im probably getting everyones water that way as well. This drawing does make sense since the pipes are running downhill that way. The pool is no longer there and was removed 6 years ago. I only own up until the front of that shed on the right. The back of the 2 trees are my property lines pretty much. I cant dig through my neighbors yards and driveways to run new lines and they would never be able to find where they went. And that street sewer is atleast 500 feet away in the pic below. I contacted the same company that originally installed those lines 20 years ago but they cant really remember what they did. Im holding off on the concrete being poured until something gets fixed but it did pour yesterday and i didnt get snywater in the garage now that i put a 4ft apron of crusher run back there tamped. The garage floor has also already been filled with 6in of crusher and tamped so really would hate to disturb that ground. Was thinking maybe to install a large channel drain around the right and back side with a exit pipe to where the yard starts going downhill on the left side of house pretty much dumping it on to my neighbors but idk what im doing. Appreciate the help
Ah, ok, good. Now we’re getting somewhere.
So the drain connection to the sewer is all the way down by Wayne Ave.?
Don‘t discount the ability of a plumber to locate this. Especially if they know where one end is, running a locator head on a snake would make short work of finding it and mapping it out.
I'd be surprised if this actually runs under the neighbors’ properties. It’s not impossible, just unusual. My sanitary sewer runs under the neighbor‘s back yard, but that was put in by the builder in the 1940s and things were different then.
Is there a utility easement along the street?
Looking at the overhead, are these (red) storm sewer lines?
The red circles look like curb inlets to a storm sewer.
It’s not impossible to run new lines here. With what I’m seeing, you’ll need to do some trenching on your property. You’ve described rocky ground, so rent a digger. If those red lines are storm sewer, find out if you can plug your drainage in to the one running in front of the house. That would be easiest for you. You’ll need city approval and a permit and they may want a licensed plumber to do the work.
If you have to use the vault down at the corner, finding and attaching to the existing drainage lines, assuming that they’re good, would be my next thought. Having them located and scoped would tell you if they’re usable or not.
Worst case, you abandon or remove as much of the old as needed and start over. I’d build it out like this:
Run drain tile, with the fabric sleeve, all the way around the property (blue). Get the PVC with holes, not the corrugated black stuff. Add stubs off the back and sides to pick up as much yard water as you can. Put cleanouts at the corners, in case this ever needs to be rodded out. Tie your downspouts (green) to the drainage while you’re at it.
That long yellow line represents a directional bore 3” or 4” pipe. You’ll need a company that can do this kind of work. Mostly they deal with conduit pipes used to run fibre cables. They can go for miles if needed, but you only need a few hundred feet. They can easily go from your front yard to that corner, in to the sewer vault.
I’m all for DIY, but for this you probably need a plumber, permits, city approval, and likely a directional boring company. You may be able to do the yard parts yourself, with rental equipment. But once you start involving public infrastructure, the city starts wanting licenses and permits.
Ya I've called numerous places can't find anyone to do it they either just do gutters basements or Excavation nothing in between. I actually looked in that sewer past neighnors house and saw 2 yellow/black 4in corrugated pipes running Into it now idk if they are mine or the neighbors. The pipe that went to the gutters was 4 feet down before it was hit. There was also a pvc pipe with a white cap on it they crushed as well I have no clue what that went to either. Idiots. I'll have to call the worthless town and see what they say. They should of had this info documented but they said there was no pipes of any kind around dig site or backyard.
Hooked
Well-known member
Is the drawing above showing a storm sewer inlet next to your driveway correct? If so, using the second drawing above can you simply extend the two drain lines (in blue) to the street and allow the water to flow into the storm sewer?
A lot of people around here do something similar when they have a pooling problem in their back yards since the streets are lower than the property.
A lot of people around here do something similar when they have a pooling problem in their back yards since the streets are lower than the property.
DGersic
Well-known member
The original work may have been done without city knowledge/ permits / approval.
4’ down may be below your frost line. From there, you may not be able to get enough drop without going to that corner vault.
That PVC cap may have been a cleanout. Either for this, or for your sanitary. I’d be concerned about that too.
Do any of your neighbors have buried drainage? If so, a garden hose will tell you if what you see in the sewer is theirs.
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Anyone on here have access to topographical maps of the OP's address? That would be a big help in giving advise on where to run drainage lines.
DGersic
Well-known member
I dug up some old pictures from my home drainage project.
Here's the overview:
New sump pump installed in basement. The eject exits on to the driveway, just in front of the white car. The driveway goes wall to wall between the houses, runs down the middle of the property line, and is shared between me and neighbor. There is no useful slope toward the street, and I didn't want to flood them.
The red line shows where the PVC pipe is trenched in. The blue line shows the directional bore pipe connecting to the closest storm sewer.
Dug out this ~3’ wide strip of concrete and blacktop that ran along the side of the house.
Dug out the sidewalk to get in to the easement strip.
Connected the sump pump exit and nearby downspout to PVC. This runs through the dug out strip in to the easement.
Here’s the driectional bore machine in action. It drills the pipe segments forward, and can be steered horizontally and vertically. One guy drives the bore, another guy guides him with a handheld tracer device that shows where the bore head is.
Once they drilled through the back side of the sewer vault, they attach the pipe to the bore head, and pull it back through.
The PVC connects to the bored pipe, with a cleanout, in the easement area. A bunch of concrete and other finish work completes the job.
I had five companies involved in this job. Cost about $12K from what I remember.
Here's the overview:
New sump pump installed in basement. The eject exits on to the driveway, just in front of the white car. The driveway goes wall to wall between the houses, runs down the middle of the property line, and is shared between me and neighbor. There is no useful slope toward the street, and I didn't want to flood them.
The red line shows where the PVC pipe is trenched in. The blue line shows the directional bore pipe connecting to the closest storm sewer.
Dug out this ~3’ wide strip of concrete and blacktop that ran along the side of the house.
Dug out the sidewalk to get in to the easement strip.
Connected the sump pump exit and nearby downspout to PVC. This runs through the dug out strip in to the easement.
Here’s the driectional bore machine in action. It drills the pipe segments forward, and can be steered horizontally and vertically. One guy drives the bore, another guy guides him with a handheld tracer device that shows where the bore head is.
Once they drilled through the back side of the sewer vault, they attach the pipe to the bore head, and pull it back through.
The PVC connects to the bored pipe, with a cleanout, in the easement area. A bunch of concrete and other finish work completes the job.
I had five companies involved in this job. Cost about $12K from what I remember.
Hooked
Well-known member
Sump pump to push it where you want it to go. Similar to what DGersic did.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
Is it a possibility that the town cut the drain tile into the sewer?
Many towns around here are doing so to comply with changes in the interpretation of the clean water act 10 years or so ago. All water now has to be treated before being released. Before many municipalities didn’t treat all or even any of it during storm runoff high flows.
I know one small town south of me it’s created all kinds of hate as now the basements that have been dry for 100 years are not wet. The cut all the drains into the sewer and they don’t have a separate storm sewer
Lafayette had to use tunnel boring equipment to make huge pipe caverns to hold the water so it can be parsed into the treatment plant.
Many towns around here are doing so to comply with changes in the interpretation of the clean water act 10 years or so ago. All water now has to be treated before being released. Before many municipalities didn’t treat all or even any of it during storm runoff high flows.
I know one small town south of me it’s created all kinds of hate as now the basements that have been dry for 100 years are not wet. The cut all the drains into the sewer and they don’t have a separate storm sewer
Lafayette had to use tunnel boring equipment to make huge pipe caverns to hold the water so it can be parsed into the treatment plant.
DGersic
Well-known member
Here they’re not actively cutting the old connections, but if you do anything to the sewer, you also now have to do something with your storm drainage. Thats how I got in to the situation above. Failed sanitary sewer repairs led to a flooded basement because my drain tile under the floor was no longer connected to anything. Had to cut in a sump pump and pit, leading to the “where do I eject the water to?” discussion. Old homes weren’t designed for sump pumps and water runoff drainage.
For the OP, the town didn’t cut off his drainage, the pole barn installation contractor did.
Yup. Welcome to New York. I have family up there a little south of Syracuse. Rocks and slate galore!
I would consult with a lawyer and see if you have a case for a lawsuit against the contractors. They made multiple mistakes without fixing them, and now it is causing flooding on your property and could cost A LOT of money to fix. They need to make it right, or pay up for someone else to make it right.
If I understand the above correctly, you already had a drainage pipe that got broken and plugged by the above action. I haven't seen any discussion of undoing that, i.e. excavating in the vicinity to repair the original drain. If you can do that, it might be the cheapest and easiest way to restore drainage, and would give you a place to route the water from the roof of your new pole barn.
However this works out, I hope you appreciate the effort that members here are putting in to try to help you. Lots of cool people here.