any way to weld nuts with a Lenco Panelmaster?
- Thread starter j keith w
- Start date
like these, for example: https://www.aftfasteners.com/m8x1-2...ilot-3-projections-plain-steel-2000-bulk-pkg/
toplessHO
Well-known member
does the nut need to withstand torque or just hold it in place?
perhaps a "stud" thats threaded the same as the nut used as your electrode
perhaps a "stud" thats threaded the same as the nut used as your electrode
Keith, does the Lenco have clamping capabilities? I wonder if these could be attached using a regular two-electrode/arm spot welder? Safe to assume your project will require too many of these fasteners to be bothering with a couple of TIG welds per nut?
Best, John
Best, John
It does. Might be overkill for some m8 weld nuts, though...
Trying to get an OEM look on the product (and save time)
It's for battery tray mounting, so it would need to withstand some torque. (around 36 ftlbs)
speed bump
Well-known member
Looking at the literature I could find you need a fair amount of force to clamp (somewhere around 500 lbs) and a lot of current for a very short period of time. I would be curious to see if the panel master can do it holding at a lower current for longer.
I don't know much about that machine, and the Lenco site doesn't list that model anymore, so I'm going off the specs found here...
www.schoolspecialty.com
The first red flag I see is that it uses a rocker arm to pinch the electrodes. Even with the correct electrodes, it is going to be very difficult to get consistent weld results and alignment due to the uneven pressure it will apply to the nut/work piece. You need the electrode faces to be parallel to each other. The second issue I see is that the clamping force is listed as 500lbs, which is not nearly enough to force to properly collapse the projections during the weld sequence. Finally, 8000 amps is roughly half the current needed to properly weld a nut like that.
Assuming you could resolve all of those issues (maybe find someone local who can weld them for you), your requirement of 36 ft-lbs is asking a lot for an M8 nut. While not impossible to achieve, the max torque that we test to is 35 ft-lbs. You'd be right on the upper limit for what a fastener that size can hold.
Auto Body Panelmaster/Spot Welder
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www.schoolspecialty.com
The first red flag I see is that it uses a rocker arm to pinch the electrodes. Even with the correct electrodes, it is going to be very difficult to get consistent weld results and alignment due to the uneven pressure it will apply to the nut/work piece. You need the electrode faces to be parallel to each other. The second issue I see is that the clamping force is listed as 500lbs, which is not nearly enough to force to properly collapse the projections during the weld sequence. Finally, 8000 amps is roughly half the current needed to properly weld a nut like that.
Assuming you could resolve all of those issues (maybe find someone local who can weld them for you), your requirement of 36 ft-lbs is asking a lot for an M8 nut. While not impossible to achieve, the max torque that we test to is 35 ft-lbs. You'd be right on the upper limit for what a fastener that size can hold.
Thanks!I don't know much about that machine, and the Lenco site doesn't list that model anymore, so I'm going off the specs found here...
Auto Body Panelmaster/Spot Welder
Great deals on Lenco products! The best selection of Body Repair products! School Specialty meets your Career & Technical needs!
The first red flag I see is that it uses a rocker arm to pinch the electrodes. Even with the correct electrodes, it is going to be very difficult to get consistent weld results and alignment due to the uneven pressure it will apply to the nut/work piece. You need the electrode faces to be parallel to each other. The second issue I see is that the clamping force is listed as 500lbs, which is not nearly enough to force to properly collapse the projections during the weld sequence. Finally, 8000 amps is roughly half the current needed to properly weld a nut like that.
Assuming you could resolve all of those issues (maybe find someone local who can weld them for you), your requirement of 36 ft-lbs is asking a lot for an M8 nut. While not impossible to achieve, the max torque that we test to is 35 ft-lbs. You'd be right on the upper limit for what a fastener that size can hold.
That's the unit I have, and you've answered my question exhaustively! Apparently, a specific tool is needed for what I want to achieve.
BTW, the 36 ftlbs. was going on memory for what we torqued the M8s to in the Porsche world (sounds like I was pretty close)
Correct, for the best results, you'd want to use a press style resistance welder. Generally speaking, that type of welder uses a large air cylinder to push the upper electrode straight down onto a fixed lower electrode. A press style can do both sheet metal and projection welding, whereas a rocker is really best suited for sheet metal only.
If you wanted to try and make your rocker work for smaller weld nuts on a future project, they do make swivel electrodes with a flat face that could potentially address the alignment issues, but I have no firsthand experience with them. I suspect they are a bit spendy as well.
I could certainly see Die Deutschen wanting to push things just a bit further than everyone else, because, well, that's just what they do. I think @jjeffries suggestion of TIG welding (or even MIG welding) on 3 of the 6 faces of a non-coated hex nut would get the job done and keep things moving forward. While not as slick looking as a resistance welded nut, it should be plenty strong.
californiamilleghia
Well-known member
No answer but I think the idea is to make it look the same as the factory look ,
I would think the factory spot welded the hex nuts on the panel before it was installed on the car , I have seen NOS panels that had hex nuts already installed.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
Those weld nuts are designed to be welded on using a "projection style" spot welder, which uses a pneumatic or hydraulic cylinder to develop quite a bit of pressure on the parts while welding. They also take a fair bit of grunt to do. Usually want a 30kva transformer or so for most of these kind of parts.
A standard handheld spot welder won't be able to do it unfortunately.
A standard handheld spot welder won't be able to do it unfortunately.