Show Off Your Antique Ratchet

[Mike'smeatshop]

What does a large NPT or BSP tap use to drive it? Honestly not sure, but if it was a 15/16" square, I could see why they were called "pipe threaders ". Kind of like how Greenlee has a "wrench" for their slug-buster cutting plugs. (it is just a ratcheting box end).

That is what I have been thinking. That these could be heavy duty Tap ratchets. And a tap would be heavy enough for I D threads.

 

[AntiqueBen]

That is what I have been thinking. That these could be heavy duty Tap ratchets.

They certainly resemble tap ratchets at first glance, but they have no way of using &/or holding actual dies, not that I can see anyways. So, can we really call it a tap ratchet then? What drew my attention initially was the fact they didn't hold dies, & was an actual ratchet....just jumbo size.

 

[AntiqueBen]

So, is this guy threading a pipe or does that resemble the ratchet attached to something? This ad is from 1915.

 

[RTM]

Looks like he's tightening nuts on a pipe die which is being used to thread the curved downward pipe.

 

[RTM]

They certainly resemble tap ratchets at first glance, but they have no way of using &/or holding actual dies, not that I can see anyways. So, can we really call it a tap ratchet then?

All my threading sets have separate holders for taps and dies, and those are called by their own eponymous name, and not interchangeable.

Don't own any pipe tapping dies, but have several taps, most will fit in regular tap handles. I'll have to check the size of the square end tomorrow.

Meaning: it might be a tap ratchet, but certainly is not a pipe die ratchet.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Meaning: it might be a tap ratchet, but certainly is not a pipe die ratchet.

You're more right than you know. I just found a Toledo catalog on ITCL from 1938....& Bingo! I finally found something. Below is a pic of a parts page in the catalog. I saw a pic of the ratchet head & gear. It looks like you could order the ratchet head, gear & all other ratchet parts & turn your handle into a ratchet. I didn't see them advertising anywhere the ratchet option/use or benefits. Looks like the gear (wheel) only had one opening size option because no others are listed. Question is now, how far back/forward in time did they offer the ratchet option.

Toledo Pipe Tools of Superior Merit : Catalog 38 Revised : Toledo Pipe Threading Machine Co. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

108 p., illus., 22.9 cm, trade catalog

archive.org

Edit: The only way to get a Toledo ratchet was through the parts department. You had to order all the ratchet parts separately or order it complete through the parts department. That's probably why we're not finding the ratchet advertised as it's own tool.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Looks like the ratchet option went back to Toledo's early days. Here is a Toledo ad from 1915 offering the option for the ratchet.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I found an advertisement for the Toledo No. 2 Pipe Threading Machine that shows the ratchet in the ad. The ratchet actually fits onto the stud on the machine. The ad & some other pics of the ratchet attached to the machine are below. I think this pretty much solves what this ratchet was used for. Clearly the ratchet is used on other Toledo machines. That's why all these ratchets have the same size opening.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Now that I think about it, does anyone know of a ratchet that has a bigger gear than these Toledo ratchets? The head of the ratchet is 5" in diameter & the gear inside is 4" in diameter.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I think that ratchet is trying to compensate for something!

 

[AntiqueBen]

Well....here it is.
The King of Leverage....
No cheater required.

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

I don't know much about pipe threading tools, but I have a theory. Maybe you guys could tell me if this makes any sense. I'm noticing some pretty sophisticated types of threading dies for all types of situations. For corners, tight areas, etc. Could some of these dies have a 15/16" stud on it, so that once it was in place you used this ratchet to turn the die? This may sound crazy. I'm just trying to justify or figure out the purpose of this ratchet & why it always seems to get lumped with pipe threaders & dies.

Ben I use pipe threaders daily. Toledo is now a manufacturer of pipe threaders. That’s why the tend to lump it in. That’s not a pipe threading ratchet.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Ben I use pipe threaders daily. Toledo is now a manufacturer of pipe threaders. That’s why the tend to lump it in. That’s not a pipe threading ratchet.

Toledo offered the option through their parts department to order the ratchet head. You could basically turn your pipe threader handle into a ratchet.

 

[RTM]

Well....here it is.
The King of Leverage....
No cheater required.

As some female friends used to say back in the day: “ well, he’s (it’s) no 6 footer”

 

[AntiqueBen]

Here's another odd ratchet I have on the way. I've never seen anything like this one before either. The head/mechanism pops off the handle. The teeth on the mechanism reminds me of Camille Contal's design. The fact that there are ball detents help date it somewhat. I'm assuming the ratcheting action turns both sides at the same time so all you have to do is switch the socket to the other side to change directions. I won't know if there are any markings until I get it. Anyone seen anything like this?

 

[Farmer J.]

Here's another odd ratchet I have on the way. I've never seen anything like this one before either. The head/mechanism pops off the handle. The teeth on the mechanism reminds me of Camille Contal's design. The fact that there are ball detents help date it somewhat. I'm assuming the ratcheting action turns both sides at the same time so all you have to do is switch the socket to the other side to change directions. I won't know if there are any markings until I get it. Anyone seen anything like this?

The teeth / ratchet mechanism looks like an Accles and Pollock 'Ferret' ratchet.

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

I found an advertisement for the Toledo No. 2 Pipe Threading Machine that shows the ratchet in the ad. The ratchet actually fits onto the stud on the machine. The ad & some other pics of the ratchet attached to the machine are below. I think this pretty much solves what this ratchet was used for. Clearly the ratchet is used on other Toledo machines. That's why all these ratchets have the same size opening.

Now that is cool

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

Here's another odd ratchet I have on the way. I've never seen anything like this one before either. The head/mechanism pops off the handle. The teeth on the mechanism reminds me of Camille Contal's design. The fact that there are ball detents help date it somewhat. I'm assuming the ratcheting action turns both sides at the same time so all you have to do is switch the socket to the other side to change directions. I won't know if there are any markings until I get it. Anyone seen anything like this?

Man your on a roll

 

[Farmer J.]

Here's another odd ratchet I have on the way. I've never seen anything like this one before either. The head/mechanism pops off the handle. The teeth on the mechanism reminds me of Camille Contal's design. The fact that there are ball detents help date it somewhat. I'm assuming the ratcheting action turns both sides at the same time so all you have to do is switch the socket to the other side to change directions. I won't know if there are any markings until I get it. Anyone seen anything like this?

Here's a link to a short thread on Accles and Pollock. The ratchets are 'like' your mystery one, but not the same! They're still in existence and did make a large variety of variations of ratchets and pipe threaders, so maybe a chance yours could have been made by them:
I have a couple of sets, same design as the pic in post #1 below:

Accles and Pollock The ferret Spanner

Hello All I have recently acquired a box of these sockets and I cannot find out much info on them apart from them being very rare can anyone tell me some history on what, would seem to me, the original socket wrench. I do not even know the value but I would imagine that I may need to for...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The head/mechanism pops off the handle.

Like ratchet adapters, cogs, etc, and maybe more readily identified as a ratchet adapter by whoever made it.

Is the connection (drive stud with detent ball) on the end of the handle 1/2-inch square? It looks like the drive studs with detent balls on the ratchet adapter itself are hex and might be two different drive sizes.

All of that is odd. Usually removable ratchet adapters are part of a set in which the handle for the ratchet adapter can also be used to drive socket wrenches and everything is interchangeable. I don't see the point of making the head removable, like a ratchet adapter, if the handle can't be used for another purpose. Unless it was used to connect other parts of a set we're not seeing.

For some reason I am thinking Europe on this, but that's just pure speculation.

The teeth on the mechanism reminds me of Camille Contal's design.

As well as early ratchet adapters, such as Snap-on No. 6, which had two open-geared, spring-loaded, clutch-switched halves (1,443,413 / granted January 20, 1923).

 

[AntiqueBen]

I found another unique ratchet. This one was patented by Charles B. Gracey in 1904. Very unique design. This is another case we're Datamp days it was "never known to be produced." The patent drawing at the top says "no model" so I guess there was no model at the time the patent was filed for. I've only done a little research & the only thing I'm finding is from the patent office listing C B. Gracey as an inventor of a ratchet. So, maybe this was never mass produced or even offered to the public. It's pretty good size at 16" long. Anyone know anything about this one? Pics below.

US Patent: 768,220 - Ratchet Wrench

US patent 768,220 Ratchet Wrench was issued to Charles B. Gracey of Coraopolis, PA. It was granted on 08/23/1904. The patent is for the shape and arrangement of the pawl and its spring, and the interface of the pawl with the teeth on the head. The pawl can be rev

www.datamp.org

 

[four.cycle]

Gracey / Charles B. Gracey, Coraopolis, PA / "Eureka" ratchet / patent 768220 Aug 23 1904 Charles B. Gracey /


1901 Logan-Gregg Hardware co catalog Ashcroft Buda Crerar Adams Gracey Keystone Millers Falls ad pp 158

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

I found another unique ratchet. This one was patented by Charles B. Gracey in 1904. Very unique design. This is another case we're Datamp days it was "never known to be produced." The patent drawing at the top says "no model" so I guess there was no model at the time the patent was filed for. I've only done a little research & the only thing I'm finding is from the patent office listing C B. Gracey as an inventor of a ratchet. So, maybe this was never mass produced or even offered to the public. It's pretty good size at 16" long. Anyone know anything about this one? Pics below.

US Patent: 768,220 - Ratchet Wrench

US patent 768,220 Ratchet Wrench was issued to Charles B. Gracey of Coraopolis, PA. It was granted on 08/23/1904. The patent is for the shape and arrangement of the pawl and its spring, and the interface of the pawl with the teeth on the head. The pawl can be rev

www.datamp.org

I know you have been finding some nice stuff

 

[Mike'smeatshop]

I found another unique ratchet. This one was patented by Charles B. Gracey in 1904. Very unique design. This is another case we're Datamp days it was "never known to be produced." The patent drawing at the top says "no model" so I guess there was no model at the time the patent was filed for. I've only done a little research & the only thing I'm finding is from the patent office listing C B. Gracey as an inventor of a ratchet. So, maybe this was never mass produced or even offered to the public. It's pretty good size at 16" long. Anyone know anything about this one? Pics below.

US Patent: 768,220 - Ratchet Wrench

US patent 768,220 Ratchet Wrench was issued to Charles B. Gracey of Coraopolis, PA. It was granted on 08/23/1904. The patent is for the shape and arrangement of the pawl and its spring, and the interface of the pawl with the teeth on the head. The pawl can be rev

www.datamp.org

Yea that is cool. And I would believe that it is involved in the RR work.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I appreciate the info guys. I appreciate the ad 4C. Wonder why Datamp says not known to be produced? I know they're busy with a ton of stuff to update.

 

[four.cycle]

And I would believe that it is involved in the RR work.

^ Considering the smallest sockets they're offering are ONE INCH, I'd say you're correct.

 

[four.cycle]

Wonder why Datamp says not known to be produced? I

That's the default entry on that line unless another value is entered.
Obviously the steward for all things "wrench" hasn't gotten the update yet.

Below the illustration at lower right, where it says "report errors or omissions", click on that link, shoot your photos to the steward, and they'll get it fixed.

 

[AntiqueBen]

That's the default entry on that line unless another value is entered.
Obviously the steward for all things "wrench" hasn't gotten the update yet.

Below the illustration at lower right, where it says "report errors or omissions", click on that link, shoot your photos to the steward, and they'll get it fixed.

Thanks 4C. I'll have to send them pics.

 

[AntiqueBen]

This is definitely my best find as of recent. I found another G W. Smith ratchet (Pat'd 1883). It's only the second one I've ever seen. Even more rare, it almost has a complete set of both square & hex "original" sockets. The few it's missing I have in my current set, so I should be able to make a complete set.

After I receive these, clean them & put the set together, I'll be posting more about this set in future posts (of course w/pics). I believe this set plays an important role in the historical significance of sockets, but I'll talk more about that later on. Below are the only 2 pics I've got. Once I get them I'll post more pics.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Gracey / Charles B. Gracey, Coraopolis, PA / "Eureka" ratchet / patent 768220 Aug 23 1904 Charles B. Gracey /


1901 Logan-Gregg Hardware co catalog Ashcroft Buda Crerar Adams Gracey Keystone Millers Falls ad pp 158

This hardware ad couldn't be before August of 1904.

 

[four.cycle]

^ You're right - good catch. a LOT of those old catalog pages I've gathered have the WRONG dates assigned to them, unfortunately.
I do not have a solution there, other than the old "trust, but verify" thing.

Unfortunately, without having the actual catalog in hand, we're at the mercy (in this case) of dealing with a person whose mission is to sell old catalog pages - ascertaining the correct year is most likely not a high priority for them.

 

[MR.X]

Thanks 4C!! Awesome info & pics. I like seeing other pics for comparison. Right away I can see several construction differences between mine & the one in the pics & Walworth ad. The head of my ratchet is made completely different, especially around the opening. Mine is 10" long & the name & patent is on the head vs. on the handle like the others. I'm gonna guess & say mine is an older design based on how the head of my ratchet is compared to the Walworth ad. Look how the opening on the later ones appear to spin within the protruded part, where as my entire protruded part spins with the opening. Pics below for comparison.

Walworth....

 

[MR.X]

Narragansett Machine Co. Providence, RI

 

[AntiqueBen]

Walworth....

Interesting. Is your ratchet marked G.W. Smith with the 1883 patent anywhere? Is that handle attachment brass?

 

[MR.X]

Interesting. Is your ratchet marked G.W. Smith with the 1883 patent anywhere? Is that handle attachment brass?

Yes, Brass. No, Smith or patent.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Yes, Brass. No, Smith or patent.

So it appears that Walworth was manufacturing the Smith ratchet. I wonder for how long? Walworth had their hands in about everything. This is definitely a clue on dating the ratchet & handle. Earlier versions were marked G. W. Smith 1883 with a steel handle attachment vs. Walworth stamp & brass knob. Thanks for sharing pics. It's good to see others to make comparisons.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I found this Walworth ad from 1905 offering the Smith Friction Drill. It offers the standard & what they're calling the "new" Smith Friction Drill version. Not sure what the difference is, but it also shows the sockets that were offered, either malleable iron or steel. Looks like the older original set had 6 square sockets & 6 hex sockets up to 1" with the exception of two more sockets over 1". I wouldn't think they would call it a new version if the only difference was the option for steel sockets. I'm wandering if this difference is something on the ratchet?

 

[MR.X]

I found this Walworth ad from 1905 offering the Smith Friction Drill. It offers the standard & what they're calling the "new" Smith Friction Drill version. Not sure what the difference is, but it also shows the sockets that were offered, either malleable iron or steel. Looks like the older original set had 6 square sockets & 6 hex sockets up to 1" with the exception of two more sockets over 1". I wouldn't think they would call it a new version if the only difference was the option for steel sockets. I'm wandering if this difference is something on the ratchet?

Maybe look into the "reversible" ( as in not having to flip the tool over) angle. They seem to be stressing that. I didn't look at the patent long enough to see if something like that was even possible with that friction roller system but.............?

 

[AntiqueBen]

Maybe look into the "reversible" ( as in not having to flip the tool over) angle. They seem to be stressing that. I didn't look at the patent long enough to see if something like that was even possible with that friction roller system but.............?

Looks like both versions still requires the user to flip the ratchet to change directions.

 

[MR.X]

Looks like both versions still requires the user to flip the ratchet to change directions.

collar looks different between the reversible and NEW reversible....quick release then? looks like price for base kit went from $5.00 to $6.50?