Be cautious of jackshaft operator installers

[amt]

Based on my very limited but bad experience, I would only recommend one of these if your door has plenty if downward force to overcome any binding of the tracks. But even then, I don’t think I would trust one of these openers, because it has no notion of the door being stuck, contrary to a trollly style push/pull system.

When the door does get stuck, the jack shaft opener will continue to unroll the shaft and the cable will be a huge rats nest. Then, if you are unlucky like me, the door will come loose and go from a slow crawl to ramming down and slamming when the cables are tight. Now all the tracks are bent and it looks like one of the cables slightly damaged one of the panels. This is the second time in one week the door got stuck, this last one when it loosened and crashed down.

I am going to see if the place I bought this from and did the installation can switch to a trolley style opener. But honesty I’d like to be rid of this door and make my own bifold doors.

 

[u2slow]

That *****.

Mine has been working fine for 11 years (12'Wx14'H) and it was DIY install. No motorized opener yet.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I would guess you have an issue other than with the opener. Maybe a broken spring.

 

[Wiz02]

Jack shaft openers are supposed to have a cable tension sensor that disables the motor operator if tension is lost.

 

[amt]

The door is 18x13 by CHI. The opener is Liftmaster. The cable is definitely coming loose for a while, like enough time for me to notice and hit the stop button. I’d guess it uncoils about half way when I stop it. The tracks are spaghetti now. Thanks for tip on the tension sensor. It certainly makes sense that it would have that, and I’ll have to look at the specs of the opener and ask the installers if they incorporated that feature.

 

[PCustoms]

Has this door worked correctly in the past, or is this a new install?

 

[allinon72]

Jack shaft openers are supposed to have a cable tension sensor that disables the motor operator if tension is lost.

This.

 

[amt]

This is a new install; the door and opener were installed a couple weeks ago. The opener is a LiftMaster MHS5011. I just looked it up, and these openers are for "rolling sheet doors", not sectional overhead doors. https://www.liftmaster.com/mhs-hoist-operator-medium-duty-door-operator/p/MHS

I also asked their AI support (which I had very low expectations), and it seems to confirm:


So i have to conclude the dealer installed the wrong equipment.

 

[PCustoms]

Well there you go, call them back first thing tomorrow.

Be polite yet firm that they need to replace anything tweaked and install a correct opener.

 

[Firebrick43]

Maybe since we have established that there is nothing wrong jackshaft openers @NUTTSGT can change the title to "Be cautious of bad garage door technicians"

 

[Viper98912]

Yes as stated above there's a little lever that rides on one of the cables and as soon as it detects any slack (aka your door has bound up) it immediately stops. Now when this happens, it doesn't mean that your cable hasn't already unraveled at least one row of the drum and/or your door isn't already crooked, but at least the sensor stops the motor from continuing to unravel and jam everything even more/harder.

 

[amt]

I could certainly be wrong about this, but it looks like the cable tension monitor from liftmaster is only compatible with their RJO (residential) operators. I’m curious if anyone has seen a similar sensor for commercial operators. I can’t find any reference to them for Luftmaster’s commercial equipment.

 

[amt]

Ok, found actual info on tension sensor compatibility: https://cf-store.widencdn.net/cgi/0...m4wNJUEiNQ__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJD5XONOBVWWOA65A

 

[regguy1]

I recently installed 2 Genie 6172 jackshaft openers. They have in the software program a built in sensor that detects proper cable tension, before the door starts downward motion it was a very slight jiggling motion as it checks for correct cable tension. I'm very happy with them

Model 6172 | Genie Garage Door Opener

Space saving and packed with features describes this on this Genie smart wall mount garage door opener. The 24-Volt DC motor - provides quiet yet powerful performance. Genie Garage Door Opener Model 6172

www.geniecompany.com

Safe-T-pulse internal slack cable detection system developed by Genie to insure safe door travel

 

[Worsedog]

I could certainly be wrong about this, but it looks like the cable tension monitor from liftmaster is only compatible with their RJO (residential) operators. I’m curious if anyone has seen a similar sensor for commercial operators. I can’t find any reference to them for Luftmaster’s commercial equipment.

Why would there be a cable tension monitor on an opener for a door with no cables? As you already concluded this is a failure on the part of the installer, not an inherent problem with jack shaft openers.

 

[amt]

Why would there be a cable tension monitor on an opener for a door with no cables? As you already concluded this is a failure on the part of the installer, not an inherent problem with jack shaft openers.

There wouldn’t. This door and opener does have cables.

 

[kngelv]

You have the wrong opener for your type of door. Also the opener should attach directly to the shaft. You have plenty of room and there is no need for that adapter.

James

 

[Firebrick43]

I could certainly be wrong about this, but it looks like the cable tension monitor from liftmaster is only compatible with their RJO (residential) operators. I’m curious if anyone has seen a similar sensor for commercial operators. I can’t find any reference to them for Luftmaster’s commercial equipment.

There isn't, because this opener was never meant for a standard sectional door like yours. Even if you had the correct industrial operator(MJ5011) it still only allows sectional doors according to the manual that are installed in high lift or vertical tracks which your door clearly is not. It is completely the wrong style of opener

And it looks like your track is pretty flat up top and not large radius either. If they had longer radius and the track was higher up then a section or two could be mostly in vertical keeping the weight on the cables. A door like yours is going to need both an operator with a cable tension sensor and some pusher springs to overcome the tracks your idiot installer put up.

 

[Packard V8]

For true, jackshaft openers work wonderfully well when properly installed. I'd never go back to the center trolly.

jack vines

 

[racecougar]

Interested to hear why the installer thought to use that operator in the first place.

 

[amt]

A door like yours is going to need both an operator with a cable tension sensor and some pusher springs to overcome the tracks your idiot installer put up.

I completely agree with you on the cable tension sensor (or some ability to detect tension on the motor itself). FWIW, this installation does have pusher springs at the end of the tracks, However, they don't seem to be enough to push the door beyond where it gets stuck.

For the reasons you mention about the track orientation, I think going to a trolley style in this situation might be better, so I am asking the installer to see if they can use the MT series. The only issue I think will be clearance to my cross beams with start at 14'6".

Also the opener should attach directly to the shaft.

Not according to the installation manual. It requires a sprocket and chain.

I am not trying to make this a thread about bashing jackshaft openers. I actually wanted the jackshaft for same reasons people tend to want them (open clear space above, cleaner look, etc). I do, however, think it's a good idea to have this thread to let others [that are considering this type of opener] know that the jackshaft operators are quite different in how they work and what they require to work well.

 

[racecougar]

Not according to the installation manual. It requires a sprocket and chain.

I am not trying to make this a thread about bashing jackshaft openers. I actually wanted the jackshaft for same reasons people tend to want them (open clear space above, cleaner look, etc). I do, however, think it's a good idea to have this thread to let others [that are considering this type of opener] know that the jackshaft operators are quite different in how they work and what they require to work well.

It requires the sprocket and chain because it's for a roll up door, not the sectional door you have shown above. You have one heck of a mess from your installer.

 

[amt]

Interested to hear why the installer thought to use that operator in the first place.

He told me yesterday that he did not go with the trolley style because he thought (but was not certain) there would not be enough room, and he wanted a jackshaft style that was "slow" to be safer. It looks like this one has a speed of 4-6"/sec. However, there are other operators that are up-to 12"/sec, and I would assume they are therefore adjustable on speed.

 

[Worsedog]

There wouldn’t. This door and opener does have cables.

And you still keep saying the opener has cables, yet cables have nothing to do with the opener, they are on the door. It is 100% misapplied for your application.

Interested to hear why the installer thought to use that operator in the first place.

This is the key to the entire problem.

I wonder how often misapplication is the root of some product's bad reviews or poor reputation?

 

[Worsedog]

He told me yesterday that he did not go with the trolley style because he thought (but was not certain) there would not be enough room, and he wanted a jackshaft style that was "slow" to be safer. It looks like this one has a speed of 4-6"/sec. However, there are other operators that are up-to 12"/sec, and I would assume they are therefore adjustable on speed.

Not knowing your knowledge or expertise here, I blame the assumptions on your installer. He "thought" there might not be enough room for a trolley opener? Manufacturers' websites and sales people have those specs immediately at hand there is no reason for assuming or guessing. He certainly made some poor ones based on the whole mess you are describing, it also would make me wonder about his qualifications in general for the whole door/opener install and setup.

I also don't see how a slower opener is safer. While I don't know every single opener made, all I have had anything to do with have safety sensors of various kinds, whether it's a light beam across the opening or load sensing for the motor.

 

[dcg9381]

If the door won't go down the track reasonably smoothly, that's an install problem.

14x16 = 224 sqft
13x18 = 234 sqft



I think the "door difference" is nominal, but certainly you can push on your supplier if that's what the manufacturer says... I'd dig a little deeper though, that's "tier 1" support.

A buddy has high lift 14' doors at his hanger, jackshaft openers work great, but can need a little tuning.

I have one jackshaft opener in the house and it's been problem free where as the other 2 traditional openers have been a pain.

If I could do one thing over it'd be a single company for garage door installation AND opener installation. I've had 3 contractors out all pointing fingers in various directions to get the tracks installed right and get the openers functioning. I'm probably an extra $750 into the deal because I didn't use one contractor for both.

 

[kngelv]

You should retitle this thread "Be Cautious of Clueless Jackshaft Installers". You have a bad install as many have pointed out. There is nothing more that we can do for you. It is up to you to have your installer put one of these in. https://www.liftmaster.com/elite-se...wall-mount-wi-fi-garage-door-opener/p/98022MC
I just installed one on my door and it is great.

James

 

[Boatman62]

I had three garage doors installed, all 12'x 10' with windows and insulated. Jackshaft openers on all three. Doors were noisy right from the start so I figured something was not right. About 2 months later had a similar issue as the OP on one of them. Door hung up on the way down, cables nested before the tension sensor shut it all down. Called the installer and was told he would be here in a week. F that and took it on myself (have experience with doors and openers). What I found was that none of the tracks were installed plumb or even close to it. Readjusted the tracks, lubed the roller axles so they would slide, put the cable back on and retensioned the springs. Been working now for 6 years without a hiccup.

 

[andyvh1959]

I would guess the installer is the issue. I installed the 7x16 door on my shop build myself, tracks and all by myself. It operates exactly as expected and I plan to covert an older Genie screw drive to a jackshaft setup to someday power it.

I just recently updated the original 7x16 Coplay door on my attached garage that was there when I bought the house in 2002. Installed a belt drive opener a few years back, no issues. Then had a spring fail this June and replaced both springs with new ones from Ideal (Coplay). Again no issues, and did all the work myself as a "non-professional" garage door installer. Plumb/level/square/straight applies as much to OH doors as it does to hinged interior doors.

 

[ericm]

I had three garage doors installed, all 12'x 10' with windows and insulated. Jackshaft openers on all three. Doors were noisy right from the start so I figured something was not right. About 2 months later had a similar issue as the OP on one of them. Door hung up on the way down, cables nested before the tension sensor shut it all down.

That's a good point. Besides the OP's wrong opener attached weirdly, the door jamming is also a problem.

 

[rust in the eye]

There should be a device to stop the motor if the cable slackens

 

[racecougar]

There should be a device to stop the motor if the cable slackens

He has a operator for a rollup door, not a sectional.

 

[rust in the eye]

He has a operator for a rollup door, not a sectional.

Are the operators were different?

 

[racecougar]

Are the operators were different?

Yes, the operators are quite different.

 

[amt]

So the installer came by today and got the door working, but for now we are going to stick to using only the chain hoist, so we can closely monitor the door as we raise/lower it. I asked about the incompatibility of this operator [with a sectional door], and he stated the only difference between this one and the one designated for a sectional door (MHS vs MH) was that this one is a slower speed. Regardless, because of this random sticking of the door, I insisted that we move to the trolley style, and they agreed.

 

[racecougar]

I asked about the incompatibility of this operator [with a sectional door], and he stated the only difference between this one and the one designated for a sectional door (MHS vs MH) was that this one is a slower speed.

You know how we all know that he's wrong?

 

[rust in the eye]

So the installer came by today and got the door working, but for now we are going to stick to using only the chain hoist, so we can closely monitor the door as we raise/lower it. I asked about the incompatibility of this operator [with a sectional door], and he stated the only difference between this one and the one designated for a sectional door (MHS vs MH) was that this one is a slower speed. Regardless, because of this random sticking of the door, I insisted that we move to the trolley style, and they agreed.

Just my own thoughts: The trouble is the door is hanging up, right?
Isn't changing the operator a bit like installing an oversized fuse in a stressed circuit?

 

[pima67]

Simply amazing! Ignore the manufacture's guidance on what the opener was designed for and then wonder why it doesn't work properly.
I have a LM 98022 installed 12/1/2023. Worked OK until Mar. Would close and then open back up. Took 5 service trips (no charge) and my over 1-hour phone call with LM tech support to "fix" the problem. LM tech sent me a new travel module. But door company finally just replaced the whole unit (6th trip). No negative comment on the door company's efforts but I don't think they had run into this problem before.

 

[Firebrick43]

So the installer came by today and got the door working, but for now we are going to stick to using only the chain hoist, so we can closely monitor the door as we raise/lower it. I asked about the incompatibility of this operator [with a sectional door], and he stated the only difference between this one and the one designated for a sectional door (MHS vs MH) was that this one is a slower speed. Regardless, because of this random sticking of the door, I insisted that we move to the trolley style, and they agreed.

He is incompetent

Once again, liftmaster only uses this style of opener for high lift and vertical lift sectional doors. You do NOT have either.

Is specifically says a standard sectional door is not recommended with the mh or mhs opener.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0537/7916/9453/files/LiftMaster-Mudium-Duty-Door-Operator-MJ5011U-MH5011U-MHS5011U-MGJ5011U-Installation-Manual.pdf?v=1615567496

 

[dcg9381]

Regardless, because of this random sticking of the door, I insisted that we move to the trolley style, and they agreed.

Make sure you get the 1-piece "trolley track". One difference between the consumer version and "commercial/professional" versions of these systems is having that track be a single piece. The multi-piece tracks have a lot more slop in them.

I agree with others around buying the right unit for the application. It's concerning that your installer seems to be a little inexperienced with the specifics.