Flank Drive High-Performance vs Flank Drive Double Box End Wrenches

[BrandonV]

Is the only difference here the length of the wrench? If so - which one do you prefer and why?

I was reading some stuff about how the "High Performance" line was for aerospace but not sure if there is any truth to that.

 

[Wakefield]

My XDHFM1719 is about 14 and one half inches long and very flat. You could reach into a narrow space with it. I don't think it looks much like a regular double box end wrench. This one has 12 point pass thu socket like ends but there are some that are spline.

 

[bonneyman]

Bonney offered a line of so-called aerospace wrenches that were long, flat, and had a slight extension of metal around the box end. I think they were used on aircraft jet engines that had recessed fasteners.
I found the 1/4" and 5/16" useful for tight places inside HVAC units. The extra length gave me the reach and leverage to get out obscured fasteners.
I have a pair of the Snap-On's. Pretty much the same idea. Plus is Snappy did the style in metric (Bonney didn't). So I can see how that would be great inside engine compartments. Here's my Utica/Bonney's and one of the Snap-On's.

 

[Wakefield]

The XDHFM1719 compared to an ordinary 19 mm. combination wrench (Wrightgrip)

 

[BrandonV]

The XDHFM1719 compared to an ordinary 19 mm. combination wrench (Wrightgrip)

All I needed to see . That's a long wrench.

 

[AEAdam]

NO!

I don't think Snap On sells a normal double box wrench anymore. They sell offset box wrenches with 10 degree and deep offset 60 degree ends.

Snap-on Store

shop.snapon.com

The high performance wrenches have different ends:

Snap-on Store

shop.snapon.com

I work in aerospace and we don't use them. The high performance wrenches come in 10 degree angled ends and 0 degree. Both are magnificent. There may be other brands which are just as good. I'm just talking about the style. They are super long and very nice.

 

[mikey03]

The high performance wrenches have different ends:

how are they different they look like both 12point to me

 

[Wrench97]

how are they different they look like both 12point to me

0 degree offset.

 

[AEAdam]

0 degree offset.

No. Look at the pics again. There is a little barrel that extends down from the box end on the high performance models. Its a very fine ring. It gives you a little offset. This is unlike the box end on your combination wrenches which are similar to the old fashioned double box wrenches Snap On (and others) used to make.

The high performance wrenches are available in both 0 and 15 degree offset (angles). Its not the angle that's different

 

[mikey03]

No. Look at the pics again. There is a little barrel that extends down from the box end on the high performance models. Its a very fine ring. It gives you a little offset. This is unlike the box end on your combination wrenches which are similar to the old fashioned double box wrenches Snap On (and others) used to make.

The high performance wrenches are available in both 0 and 15 degree offset (angles). Its not the angle that's different

I got a couple of the o offset ones and they do have that extension out and I really like that because it gives me a bit of offset even though it’s zero

if they weren’t so expensive I’d buy more but I just pick them up when I find a good deal on eBay or a pawn shop

i like the ones I got so much I’m thinking of buying the 15 offset too but idk how different they really would be

 

[Wamsutta]

You guys need to use part numbers so that we know what we're talking about here.

The XDH and XBM are two entirely different wrenches.

Zero Degree Offset: XDHFM1719

15 Degree Offset XDHM1719

10 Degree Offset: XBM1719A

I personally don't see the point in buying a high performance wrench with a 15 degree offset. I would get the zero degree offset.

The XBM wrenches are super nice wrenches. In addition to their 10 degree offset on each end, the beam is extra thick similar to their line wrenches. A meaty wrench to hold onto.

 

[mikey03]

You guys need to use part numbers so that we know what we're talking about here.

The XDH and XBM are two entirely different wrenches.

Zero Degree Offset: XDHFM1719

15 Degree Offset XDHM1719

10 Degree Offset: XBM1719A

I personally don't see the point in buying a high performance wrench with a 15 degree offset. I would get the zero degree offset.

The XBM wrenches are super nice wrenches. In addition to their 10 degree offset on each end, the beam is extra thick similar to their line wrenches. A meaty wrench to hold onto.

i know this is GJ but if you got the zero XDH do you think it makes sense to add in the 10 deg XBMs or are they going to pretty much hit the same access style of fastener

 

[Wamsutta]

i know this is GJ but if you got the zero XDH do you think it makes sense to add in the 10 deg XBMs or are they going to pretty much hit the same access style of fastener

I think for the guy who already has a set of 15 degree offset combination wrenches, he doesn't need the 15 degree offset XDH unless for some reason he needs the super long length.

The XBM is offset, but it keeps the beam on the same straight level plane as a zero degree offset XDH.

 

[mikey03]

I think for the guy who already has a set of 15 degree offset combination wrenches, he doesn't need the 15 degree offset XDH unless for some reason he needs the super long length.

The XBM is offset, but it keeps the beam on the same straight level plane as a zero degree offset XDH.

so far what I’m doing for my fixed wrenches are regular combination wrenches and I got a few XDH zeros and would like to get a full set eventually I love the ones I got so far used the 22-24 for some oxygen sensors recently and worked so good

and I got some stubby combination wrenches which I never use yet but I think is one of those things you need when you need it even if it aint often

those three seem to cover me pretty good and some flare nut wrenches. I keep seeing pictures of peoples sweet wrench drawers but idk if i really need more than these four kinds tbh at least for fixed kind that don’t ratchet

 

[Wamsutta]

so far what I’m doing for my fixed wrenches are regular combination wrenches and I got a few XDH zeros and would like to get a full set eventually I love the ones I got so far used the 22-24 for some oxygen sensors recently and worked so good

and I got some stubby combination wrenches which I never use yet but I think is one of those things you need when you need it even if it aint often

those three seem to cover me pretty good and some flare nut wrenches. I keep seeing pictures of peoples sweet wrench drawers but idk if i really need more than these four kinds tbh at least for fixed kind that don’t ratchet

I don't use the stubby combination wrenches very much either but I have used 16mm underneath the kitchen sink inside the cabinet for a faucet hose. That wrench was my hero that day.

 

[KnurledNut]

Is the only difference here the length of the wrench? If so - which one do you prefer and why?

I was reading some stuff about how the "High Performance" line was for aerospace but not sure if there is any truth to that.

Snap-on high performance wrenches do meet aerospace standard AS954.

AS954E-2004
This aerospace standard covers wrenches and sockets, and specifies requirements for these products in terms of dimensions, ultimate torque, and cycle life performance. AS954 specifies a higher requirement for minimum Nickel-Chrome plating thickness than ASME standards for non-aero- space hand tools, which allows the aerospace products covered by this standard to meet the harsh aerospace corrosion resistance requirements. Finally, this standard requires that the wrenches and sockets not bear on the outer 5% of the fastener’s wrenching points as well as that they meet Foreign Object Damage (FOD) requirements.

——-

Wrenches, Hand, Twelve Point, High Strength, Thin Wall AS954H​

This SAE Aerospace Standard (AS) covers high strength thin wall (commercial) sockets, universal sockets, box wrenches and torque adaptors which possess the strength, clearances, and internal wrenching design so configured that, when mated with bi-hexagonal fasteners conforming to the requirements of AS870 for inch sizes and ISO 4095 for metric sizes, they shall transmit torque to the fastener without bearing on the outer 5% of the fastener's wrenching points.

 

[Wrench97]

I don't use the stubby combination wrenches very much either but I have used 16mm underneath the kitchen sink inside the cabinet for a faucet hose. That wrench was my hero that day.

For some reason I usually use the shorties for power steering lines once broken loose...

 

[Wamsutta]

For some reason I usually use the shorties for power steering lines once broken loose...

That's a good idea.

 

[AEAdam]

I think for the guy who already has a set of 15 degree offset combination wrenches, he doesn't need the 15 degree offset XDH unless for some reason he needs the super long length.

The XBM is offset, but it keeps the beam on the same straight level plane as a zero degree offset XDH.

You are describing me pretty accurately.

Heres what I have:

1. Snap on ratchet combos FD+
2. Snap on XL combos FD+
3. 15degree high performance DBE
4. 0 degree ratchet DBE.

Here are my thoughts:

• The XL combos are probably my favorite set
• I love the zero degree and they come in handy but I don’t like or trust the ratchet. They are not rebuildable and feel gritty to me. But they are SUPER long.
• The 15 deg Hi Performance DBEs are super nice to use, but I probably could live happily without them. But only because my std combos are XL.
• my least favorite are the ratchet combos. They’ve helped me once or twice. Generally I think the box end is too big and not super useful.

Here‘s why I’m not changing:

• If I ditched my ratchet combos, I’d only have one open end wrench in each size
• if I ditched my offset DBEs, i’d only have one set of offset box wrenches and for that one job where that little bit of extra length would help me, it’s not worth selling them. Better these than a second set of combos.

Heres what I’d recommend:

• Snap On combos are REALLY nice wrenches. I’ve encountered no down side to the long patterns. I recommend them highly
• Long zeros are really nice. I’d prefer a set without ratchets. Would not buy Snap On again. I think I’d choose the Icon clones or some high quality Taiwan version. Only hesitation: these are really long wrenches and if the business ends aren’t great, you can generate enough torque to create a problem. My advice is generally, save your money when buying shorter wrenches, ratchets, prybars etc. So contradicting myself here.

 

[Wamsutta]

You are describing me pretty accurately.

Heres what I have:

1. Snap on ratchet combos FD+
2. Snap on XL combos FD+
3. 15degree high performance DBE
4. 0 degree ratchet DBE.

Here are my thoughts:

• The XL combos are probably my favorite set
• I love the zero degree and they come in handy but I don’t like or trust the ratchet. They are not rebuildable and feel gritty to me. But they are SUPER long.
• The 15 deg Hi Performance DBEs are super nice to use, but I probably could live happily without them. But only because my std combos are XL.
• my least favorite are the ratchet combos. They’ve helped me once or twice. Generally I think the box end is too big and not super useful.

Here‘s why I’m not changing:

• If I ditched my ratchet combos, I’d only have one open end wrench in each size
• if I ditched my offset DBEs, i’d only have one set of offset box wrenches and for that one job where that little bit of extra length would help me, it’s not worth selling them. Better these than a second set of combos.

Heres what I’d recommend:

• Snap On combos are REALLY nice wrenches. I’ve encountered no down side to the long patterns. I recommend them highly
• Long zeros are really nice. I’d prefer a set without ratchets. Would not buy Snap On again. I think I’d choose the Icon clones or some high quality Taiwan version. Only hesitation: these are really long wrenches and if the business ends aren’t great, you can generate enough torque to create a problem. My advice is generally, save your money when buying shorter wrenches, ratchets, prybars etc. So contradicting myself here.

I bought my XBMs for drain plugs. When I worked at a Toyota dealer, we'd pull on the 14mm combination wrench with two fingers; our index finger and our middle finger. Being how thin the wrenches are, this guaranteed us we wouldn't over torque the drain plug and ruin the styrofoam crush washer. When it got to the point where it was too painful pulling on that thin wrench with two fingers, we knew right then and there that the drain plug was plenty tight.

Now for my own car which is a GM, the drain plug uses a built in rubber seal. I use my XBM1315A and push on the wrench for tightening the drain plug instead of pulling on it. I can put my whole shoulder into it and not worry about over tightening. That drain plug design is awesome. I'm sure you found all this information fascinating.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

• Long zeros are really nice. I’d prefer a set without ratchets. Would not buy Snap On again. I think I’d choose the Icon clones or some high quality Taiwan version. Only hesitation: these are really long wrenches and if the business ends aren’t great, you can generate enough torque to create a problem. My advice is generally, save your money when buying shorter wrenches, ratchets, prybars etc. So contradicting myself here.

You feeling okay man?


I too have found the longer wrenches, be it XL, offset, or just long pattern have less downside than we think. Mentally you figure they just won't fit, but >95% of the time it isn't remotely an issue.

 

[Wakefield]

"There may be other brands that are just as good"
Nepros ? NM11L - 1719 KTC JAPAN

 

[mikey03]

I too have found the longer wrenches, be it XL, offset, or just long pattern have less downside than we think. Mentally you figure they just won't fit, but >95% of the time it isn't remotely an issue.

yea i mean if you can’t fit a XL wrench in there then how you going to fit a regular length wrench and your arm to turn the wrench

 

[mikey03]

Heres what I have:

1. Snap on ratchet combos FD+
2. Snap on XL combos FD+
3. 15degree high performance DBE
4. 0 degree ratchet DBE.

I started out with all Taiwan and some Chinese stuff of the usual tools everyone recommends and as I get more money to put into tools and see what I use I upgrade to snap on or koken or proto or something good.

i rather got a smaller set of high quality tools than a big set of Pittsburgh junk.

I picked up some zero deg XL snap ons for about half the metric sizes, still need the other Half they been really good.

Trying to decide what else to upgrade and ive been upgrading my sockets and ratchets, scored shallow mid and deep and also universal in 3/8 SO over a few months at pretty good prices.

so I got to ask myself when would I use the wrench over a socket? and for those situations what is the type of wrenches most useful? For one I used the XL 22-24 to change oxygen sensors which I couldn’t have done with a socket. The connector slipped through the box end perfectly and I cranked the sensors off without clipping the wires not that I needed to salvage them tbh

its like a pass through socket on a breaker bar

open end wrenches when you need them you can’t do with sockets so really the question is what situations can’t you use a socket and ratchet where you need a box end wrench? And I think honestly the XL DBE might cover you. Do you really need 2 box end wrenches of same size? If you got to hold a nut behind a bolt you can use one socket and one wrench of same size I think

my uncles garage is to the ceiling with tools he will never use because he has 5 of everything and I dont want to end up like him.

y’all going to laugh at me no doubt but I was thinking of using crowfoot on a t-handle instead of open end wrenches since even if you got reg wrench’s you need crowfeet but maybe if you attach the crow feet to a t handle or breaker bar you can use that in place of a open end wrench. Not that you’d want to just trying to think what tools do you really need versus luxury so I dont turn into my uncle

and yea I do got a full set of combo wrenches but I almost never use the open end and I did pick up some like new SO crowfeet for real cheap, it’s one of those things people need to have but never use so can find them used cheap like new alot

 

[AEAdam]

I started out with all Taiwan and some Chinese stuff of the usual tools everyone recommends and as I get more money to put into tools and see what I use I upgrade to snap on or koken or proto or something good.

i rather got a smaller set of high quality tools than a big set of Pittsburgh junk.

I picked up some zero deg XL snap ons for about half the metric sizes, still need the other Half they been really good.

Trying to decide what else to upgrade and ive been upgrading my sockets and ratchets, scored shallow mid and deep and also universal in 3/8 SO over a few months at pretty good prices.

so I got to ask myself when would I use the wrench over a socket? and for those situations what is the type of wrenches most useful? For one I used the XL 22-24 to change oxygen sensors which I couldn’t have done with a socket. The connector slipped through the box end perfectly and I cranked the sensors off without clipping the wires not that I needed to salvage them tbh

its like a pass through socket on a breaker bar

open end wrenches when you need them you can’t do with sockets so really the question is what situations can’t you use a socket and ratchet where you need a box end wrench? And I think honestly the XL DBE might cover you. Do you really need 2 box end wrenches of same size? If you got to hold a nut behind a bolt you can use one socket and one wrench of same size I think

my uncles garage is to the ceiling with tools he will never use because he has 5 of everything and I dont want to end up like him.

y’all going to laugh at me no doubt but I was thinking of using crowfoot on a t-handle instead of open end wrenches since even if you got reg wrench’s you need crowfeet but maybe if you attach the crow feet to a t handle or breaker bar you can use that in place of a open end wrench. Not that you’d want to just trying to think what tools do you really need versus luxury so I dont turn into my uncle

and yea I do got a full set of combo wrenches but I almost never use the open end and I did pick up some like new SO crowfeet for real cheap, it’s one of those things people need to have but never use so can find them used cheap like new alot

With respect, I think you are over thinking this and looking for clever solutions that really aren’t that clever.

My opinion, we have this same conversation over and over again. How little can you spend and still have useful tools? what can you get away with not having? What’s the bare minimum? What’s good enough?

I’m personally more motivated about the work I do with my tools, than saving a buck on them. I save enough WITH them, don’t need to save ON them. But that’s just me.

At the end of the day, each of us makes a decision and lives with the consequences, if there are any. If you are asking, everyone working on cars needs a good set of combo wrenches. There is no practical alternative. Again, if you are asking, I’ve found the long zeros helpful. It’s not just leverage, it’s also reaching into tight spaces.

 

[Hakeem]

I love the long zeros. They feel good to crank on, look cool, and offer genuine advantages over other wrench styles. Maybe not a “need to have” but certainly “nice to have”

 

[AEAdam]

For some reason I usually use the shorties for power steering lines once broken loose...

I have Bluepoint stubby ratchets. They can be helpful. I did some crazy work under a car seat where I think nothing else would have worked. But maybe because I had them, I didn’t need to improvise. I don’t have a full set, just maybe 8-13mm

 

[Chipm]

When I worked at a Toyota dealer, we'd pull on the 14mm combination wrench with two fingers; our index finger and our middle finger... When it got to the point where it was too painful pulling on that thin wrench with two fingers, we knew right then and there that the drain plug was plenty tight.

Now for my own car which is a GM...I can put my whole shoulder into it and not worry about over tightening...

A better method if you do a lot of Toyota drain plugs is a 30 ft lb preset torque wrench. I mean, I'm sure the two-finger method is probably sufficient, but I am paranoid about torque.

Get a set of preset torque wrenches at 8, 18, 22, 30 ft lbs and you are pretty much covered for everything on an oil service.