2024 Garage Sale Thread (13th Annual)

[Outlawmws]

C'mon Lugz the Can gauge comments went on and on over several years!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

As the ultimate deep diver, I was only kidding, but no, not really. The comments ABOUT the Great Gas Can Gauge Debate went on for years. The debate itself not really all that long. I consider it a great service, in hindsight. We were just warming the thread up for a tradition of excruciatingly esoteric rabbit hole-ing!

 

[Outlawmws]

So you don't see the irony of Hi-Jack comments Hi-jacking the thread...

 

[four.cycle]

did I miss something here?

I'll go back to my rabbit hole... I might get to that vise folder yet this week.......

(updated list just uploaded again today)

 

[LesserSon]

Heck, I might have seen dozens of orphaned original HiJack clip-on bases over the years, but I still have no idea what they look like from this discussion.

Well, maybe not worthless, but can’t we get a few more posts, at least?
I’m pretty sure I must have seen them lying around farms growing up, but they weren’t an intimate part of my life (any more than gerry cans).
My dad has one of those jacks which I tried to use this summer to lift one corner of a floating dock to swap a 50gal drum out, so I’m glad we switched to a nice, safe come-along paired with a 10’ chainlink fencepost before anyone was injured (chest deep in a slippery-bottomed lake).

 

[LesserSon]

We interupt this program to bring your attention to a new marvel of the mitering world…
Friend, have you ever been in a situation where you couldn’t make a square or 45° cut across a 2” board to save your life? A bit too much liquor from your lunch kettle on your breath to risk standing in line to use a real miter box? Well, friend, what would you say if I could promise you’d never have to face your foreman over cut corners again? A solution to that age-old problem of not wanting “too much tool” for a job?
Well, friend, let me introduce you to this little wonder:

Just look at the accuracy! Make precise cuts every time! And when you need to carry it off the jobsite, no heavy lifting, no damage to doorways: just fold it up and stick it in your back pocket!
That’s right friend, a folding miter box you can carry in your back pocket!
Quality? See for yourself…
Nobody knows “finish carpentry” better than the craftsmen at The Alaska Freezer Company of Winchendon, Massachusetts, world-renowned manufacturers of the Improved Gem Folding Mitre Box. That’s right, it’s an Alaskan! Won’t your co-workers be jealous?

(This beautiful piece was gifted to me by my sister-in-law, who knows I am a “tool guy.”)

 

[Private Lugnutz]

did I miss something here?

If you mean in the recent exchange, just me and Outlaw joking around with each other. If you mean the Great Gas Can Steel Gauge Debate, yes, several years ago. A Garage Sale thread classic. Ranks right up there with @BlueBomber 's nephew's estate sale driveway turd.

That’s right, it’s an Alaskan!

Maybe they used it for salmon filets.

 

[misterbill]

Haha. Not General Dicktionary?!

Did you read the whole thread, though? What you have there is still properly called a gooseneck wrecking bar in some technical circles, including federal catalogs, whereas a long straight pry bar is still properly called a crowbar. Hand tool nomenclature, terminology, and colloquialisms is a fascinating hobby sub-topic.

@Private Lugnutz Just to give you a feeling warmer than a College Avenue sticky bun, I just got back from Lowes and they had their offering correctly marked as wrecking bars.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks, Bill. Bonus points for Ye Newe Hardware Store.

 

[SC Fly Guy]

Sale season is going out with a bang here in Upstate NY. A 5-day Estate Sale of a neighbor who was a master mechanic and a NASCAR fanatic started today. The family (I went to school with his daughter) took a lot of the tools, but there was still a good deal of stuff.

First find was a Scholler, Crescent, and a small hammer only marked HD-U.


I did pick up some Snap On 70th Anniversary items for the collection. Prices were about 1/2 of eBay ‘sold’ prices, not bad for a first day situation.





There’s still a ton of stuff left and tomorrow starts the progressive discounting at 20% off. The garage is lined with Snap On wall cabinets and there was a really cool Matco rolling cart and a collectors series wrench set, but they were a little high.

 

[LesserSon]

Maybe they used it for salmon filets.

Looks on the web that they were known mainly for hand-cranked ice cream freezers…very similar materials and finishes to this.

 

[Smokeshow69]

If you mean in the recent exchange, just me and Outlaw joking around with each other. If you mean the Great Gas Can Steel Gauge Debate, yes, several years ago. A Garage Sale thread classic. Ranks right up there with @BlueBomber 's nephew's estate sale driveway turd.

Maybe they used it for salmon filets.

Not to get all nit picky but the “turdgate” was jakemac’s nephew. Haven’t seen that guy in here in a while .

 

[Old Man Roger]

So you don't see the irony of Hi-Jack comments Hi-jacking the thread...

I know it’s not quite in the spirit of the thread, but I think this post deserves a you ****.lol Post of the day If you ask me.

And once a word is sufficiently in the vernacular, doesn’t it become proper? I/E Crowbar?

 

[Etchase]

^ It worked for a Johnson.

 

[Outlawmws]

Getting back on track:

One yard-sale worth the drive on Sunday.

Found a brass Stanley London compass, a US bayonet and scabbard - I'm thinking pre-Vietnam, as its using the old style belt/pack clip, not ALICE; A bit of the tip is broken on the knife, and the seller claimed to have dug it up in the iraqi desert with about 6 more.

A dinky Irwin bar clamp, 2 carbide saw blades - one new, and a third of a gallon of crown White gas. The fuel was free, the bayonet and compass were 10 each and a buck each for the rest.

 

[RTM]

Found a brass Stanley London compass

That's some nice heavy inhalation there.

 

[four.cycle]

the compass is fabulous.
looks awfully heavy, though.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

And once a word is sufficiently in the vernacular, doesn’t it become proper? I/E Crowbar?

For two completely different tools? Read the link.

 

[four.cycle]

And once a word is sufficiently in the vernacular, doesn’t it become proper? I/E Crowbar?

Valid point, Sir.
In France, you would be burned at the stake by the Académie Française.
In America - some would think you're correct.
The English language is unique in that it accepts - to a degree - those variances that go outside the parameters of what some linguists and lexicograhers deem "proper"
In some cases, however, proper nomenclature is essential if one desires to achieve a specific goal. (e.g, "get the job done")
A "crow bar" is a long piece of iron used to jockey around railroad tracks.
A "wrecking bar" is one of those puny things you use to tear apart walls in apartment buildings and such.

 

[Old Man Roger]

The proper name of a tool is the proper name of tool, we all agree on that. I’m just saying, if you showed everyone in America a wrecking bar, or a gooseneck bar, or a pry bar, and you asked them if any of these were a crowbar, 99% of them would say yes.

Even some companies that make all kinds of pry bars, wrecking bars, etc, etc, advertise wrecking bars as crow bars.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Bon-Tool-48-in-Crow-Bar-with-Claw-and-Chisel-Ends/5000763475

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I’m just saying, if you showed everyone in America a wrecking bar, or a gooseneck bar, or a pry bar, and you asked them if any of these were a crowbar, 99% of them would say yes.

I don't know that it would be as high as 99%. If that were so, we'd have A LOT of people who actually wanted and needed a crowbar end up with a wrecking bar, and vice versa. At some point, the name really does matter, and it still matters to a lot more than 1% of the population using bars (road crews, forest service, etc). I will reiterate that you should read the thread I linked, and I guess I should emphasize - before this actually does turn into a great debate we will be talking about in the 20th annual thread in 2031, that I was having some fun with my friend, @misterbill , explicitly because it was the topic of a former vernacular vs nomenclature thread down on the VB. Hence the smiley devil emoticon and his witty touche back to me. In other words, he knows I was not genuinely admonishing him for using the "wrong" term on a garage sale thread. Despite learning - the hard way, from my father - that it is not a crowbar, even I would probably still call it a crowbar in certain circumstances. Such as shopping at that Lowes you cited where they don't know the difference!

 

[bmwrd0]

Words change and flow with meaning and intent. What was once a common word for, say, a stick is now used to negatively refer to someone who is gay. It is also used within that ingroup as a signifier, as it shows who can and can't say the word in a pejorative sense.

If the majority of people use the word crowbar to mean any long piece of steel tooling with a curved end, and maybe not even with that modification, then that is the word in the common vocabulary.

And to further the point, I once got into a fight with a doctor about the use of the word shoulder, as I was complaining about the area between my arm and neck. And, as he only wanted to talk about the area around my rotator-cuff, I said "look, A**hole, this is my shoulder, and that is where I am hurting."

 

[Debcrow]

VS a Reckoning Bar. Where you buy everyone those beers you owe them (a day of reckoning).
Not a Crow Bar where birds drink.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

If the majority of people use the word crowbar to mean any long piece of steel tooling with a curved end, and maybe not even with that modification, then that is the word in the common vocabulary.

Until a dozen of the wrong bars show up at a jobsite. The work gang and the guy on the other end of the phone had better be using the same common vocabulary, especially when one term is the proper name for a completely different bar. No language in the world is as fluid as English, it's a beautiful thing, and I am a descriptivist by nature, but there are times when prescriptivism irrefutably matters. Tools are clearly one of them.

I was about to warn our relative newcomers 4.c and OMR that when a former host provides a gentle nudge like...

Getting back on track:

...it means we should move on, but two other former hosts are guilty of continued sidetracking!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

VS a Reckoning Bar. Where you buy everyone those beers you owe them (a day of reckoning).
Not a Crow Bar where birds drink.

Snerk. Cue the 'A crow walks into a bar' jokes...

 

[gpw_42]

Life has interfered with tool hunting lately, and just caught up on the thread.

***** to the following:
OR - Baldor grinder
OR - Bon-E-Con and D-I socket set acquisition
Southern83 - $1 Drill Set with FSN
Provincial - Primers
Mr W - Free Coleman 220K with the packs of mantles
Seber - $20 frozen Baldor
LS - Big Red book. Don't know if the edition is very valuable, but I sure loved that book when I was a kid!

Left behind a garage bar with what I swear was a S/O 1945 G date mark, but couldn't find the associated Snap/On markings, even using a screwdriver and a chisel as searching tools. IF (and that's a big if) the S/O marking was there, it was way under some very well applied paint. At $10, too expensive to roll the dice. Thanks to @d42jeep for his assistance/review on that one.

 

[bmwrd0]

Or, a dozen railroad working bars show up at a home demo job in West Baltimore, and no one knows what to do with them.

The whole point of language is to be able to communicate. Who you are speaking too is just as important as what you are speaking about. Calling a medical device provider and asking for a new rotator cuff would work, while asking for a new shoulder might not. Going down to the local ACE hardware and asking for a crowbar, you are most likely not going to get railroad working tools. Calling a specific tool house that specializes in RR tools would be a different story.

And, there was for a time a Crow Bar in my home town, which was were you went went you needed a screwdriver.

 

[Outlawmws]

My Dad, former navy aircraft mechanic for prop planes, invariably called a wrecking bar a crowbar. so, I grew up with it. The Flat "Superbars" are commonly called wrecking bars as well.

The Pinch bars/crowbars when I started in racing were invariably called gads.

Incorrect terminology is common, and people seem to go out of their way to continue its use, - witness this continued conversation.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Going down to the local ACE hardware and asking for a crowbar, you are most likely not going to get railroad working tools. Calling a specific tool house that specializes in RR tools would be a different story.

There is way more of an overlap with a potential for massive confusion in the tools marketplace for all kinds of wrecking and pry bars between your polar esoteric RR and generic local ACE scenario. Again, our language is built for growing, but there is a time for the vernacular and there is a time for nomenclature and the decay and conflation is not always defensibly productive or desirable. This particular term is intriguing to me for just that reason and the thread I deep dove on is littered with rationale.

And, there was for a time a Crow Bar in my home town, which was were you went went you needed a screwdriver.

Now there is an Old Fashioned term that we have not screwed up yet.

 

[Old Man Roger]

I had no idea what I was starting..lol I was just fooling around., no need to hit me over the head with a crow....AHH NEVER MIND.lol

 

[SC Fly Guy]

Back to yesterday’s sale at 20% off day. Still a bunch of stuff, but limited interest.

I did find some Snap-On collectibles ($8)


Collector’s Series wrench set (<1/2 of eBay price)


Early Gerber multitool and Crescent (post-Cooper acquisition) socket kit box ($5). The box is full of drill bits, but I’ll try to refill it with proper stuff.


There was also one of these German-made rolling cantilever boxes, but the Matco version. The price ($140) seemed a bit high and the Matco sticker was a bit worn. I’m holding out for a Lakewood made box.


I’m out of town for a couple of days, but if it’s still there on Friday’s 50% off day, I may just bite.

 

[bmwrd0]

@Lugz I don't want to beat a dead horse, so I will kick a rented mule. Even in a tool centric community such as Garage Journal, I think the vast majority of people will refer to that device as a Crowbar, and I would bet dollars to doughnuts that if you Quizzed the general tool section here that 99%+ would call the generic version found at your local ACE a crowbar. Thus using a specialized term obfuscates more than illuminates.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love using ingroup vernacular, but when said ingroup doesn't agree on which term is appropriate, than I will default to the common. Because, as I said, language is to communicate, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Old Man Roger]

Trouble maker.

















But I agree.lol

 

[LesserSon]

LS - Big Red book. Don't know if the edition is very valuable, but I sure loved that book when I was a kid!

Thanks. Funny thing, when I put this copy on the shelf, I already had a hardcover and a paperback edition. Maybe I can use one as trade fodder for a copy of Outlaw Red, LOL.

 

[LesserSon]

Persnicketyville, USA:
Philly:

 

[four.cycle]

, if you showed everyone in America a wrecking bar, or a gooseneck bar, or a pry bar, and you asked them if any of these were a crowbar, 99% of them would say yes.

At the risk of further offending everyone:

I agree with you on that to an extent, OMR, but as @Private Lugnutz points out, I'm not sure I'd agree it's as high as 99% - I'd conservatively estimate it more in the high 80s - low 90s.
At least you and I can agree on what is and what is not and what might be a saw set, right?

My junior high school wood shop teacher, Roger Buranen, was outright militant about proper nomenclature in class. If you called an adjustable wrench a "Crescent", you'd find yourself sitting in the corner wearing a dunce cap he made out of heavy paper. Seriously. The guy was a fanatic, the consequence being that I learned proper names of tools quite early on.

To @bmwrd0 's point: If you're not talking to the guys here on GJ, but rather your fellow parents at the local PTA meeting, saying "Goose-neck wrecking bar" would most likely get you some strange looks. There is an appropriate place for the vernacular.

 

[Beerhippie]

I've used pickle bars, prise bars, digging bars, Wonder bars, Wizard bars, bullpricks... but never a juice bar.

 

[RTM]

I've used pickle bars, prise bars, digging bars, Wonder bars, Wizard bars, bullpricks... but never a juice bar.

Never a Johnson either.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I will kick a rented mule

You must've paid a daily rate, he still has life in him at the end my work day!

Even in a tool centric community such as Garage Journal, I think the vast majority of people will refer to that device as a Crowbar, and I would bet dollars to doughnuts that if you Quizzed the general tool section here that 99%+ would call the generic version found at your local ACE a crowbar. Thus using a specialized term obfuscates more than illuminates.

As I said to OMR, who was the first to boldly throw out a 99% figure, I highly doubt it. The informal ratio on the original thread was something like 7/3. So I would probably take that bet! If it ended up being that high, I would be shocked. On the other hand, I would be very happy to be able to identify myself as "a 1%'er" for once in my life!

But, I have to emphasize that I'm not arguing - and have no reason to argue - that most people know the correct term. I realize that some people, many people, maybe even most people now colloquially refer to a wrecking bar as a crowbar. I acknowledged that very early on in the deep dive thread if you read it. What percentage of GJ or the general population doesn't know the difference between a wrecking bar and a crowbar has no relevance to my point that technically, it might still very much matter in anything but the most casual of conversations to get them confused.

Maybe it's experiential. I have been around all kinds of heavy bars for various reasons. Starting with my dad, as I said. I worked in heavy highway road crews as a teenager. I have been in the Army (every vehicle has one stowed somewhere). I live next door to a mason and know many others. But I certainly don't consider myself an expert or part of any highly "specialized" group for knowing the difference. In short, and no offense, I thought everyone did! As someone who has always known the difference between a crowbar and a wrecking bar and who can't think of any workmates, family, acquaintances or peers who confuse them or their names, I hope you can see how perpetuating the colloquialism because of the perceived majority, and insisting that the term wrecking bar is "specialized" for use only esoterically (i.e., by an "ingroup"), seems like a classic case of confirmational bias to me.

The idea that GJ is not considered an ingroup for tools is also kind of funny. Since when?! Are the differences between a maul, a sledge and a deadblow hammer, or a divider and a caliper, or a Phillips and a Frearson, or a diamond point and a cape chisel dismissed in conversations here as artifacts of inconsequential vernacular?

...Thus using a specialized term obfuscates more than illuminates.

If only to satisfy my own curiosity and double-check myself and my own susceptibility to confirmational bias, I stopped by three hardware stores on my way home from JB MDL.

In addition to the Lowes where @misterbill lives, I am happy to report that the Lowes in Lakewood, NJ has them labeled as wrecking bars.



My local hardware store - proudly family owned and operated for 77 years, so, not an ACE, but small, like an ACE, also has them correctly labeled.

,

The Building Supply Store, which caters to contractors, also has them labeled correctly, and, I have to say, I am exceedingly impressed with the guvmentese-like nomenclature ('BAR, WRECKING, 18", GOOSENECK')!



Obviously, the suppliers are using the same term, locking in a terminology covering the entire chain from manufacturers to users.

Is Lowes "special"? Is my mom-and-pop hardware store (population, 2,750) "ingroup"-y?

In terms of communication, if you lived around here, and you wanted to call around to save yourself a wasted trip, chances are a clerk at Lowes would look "crowbar" up or ask her Siri gun and find no SKUs. Chances are she would probably have to walk down to aisle 59, and describe the bars to you, or ask someone more knowledgable, who might confirm if you meant a "wrecking bar," and describe it.

Or would you call it a wrecking bar in a technical context but not here? Why when it's clearly very common?

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from a preferred or learned or habitual vernacular. You want to keep on calling them crowbars, because you think that's what 99% of the country uses, have at it. But the name wrecking bar is clearly not anachronistic, nostalgic, uncommon or peculiar.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thank you Lugz!

You're welcome. Every once in a rare while I contribute a little something in return for how much I have learned here from others, includng you.