Tools of Japan

[ChevyEFI]

What is the Ko-ken set in the lower right of the second photo? Some sort of flip bit?

Yes.

# 4202 Drain Plug Keys Set with

# 106 Drain Plug Keys 8S×10S, 8H×3/8H, 10H×11H, 12H×13H, 14H×17H, 19H
and
# 4102 Drain Plug Key Adaptor

 

[bongkar_YES_pasang_NO]

I have both and I don't think you would be disappointed with either one. They both work very well.

how do they compared to this Anex one?


It's been on my wishlist for a while, just need a few justification to pull the trigger

 

[superautobacs]

dunno if they are japan made, I believe they are NOS

There we go! Just when I was talking about AIGO locking pliers, you delivered!
You even got another exampled of MIJ locking pliers! I didn't know Taiyo Seiko made them (assuming they did at one point). I wonder what era that one is from? Thanks for sharing.

 

[ricleh]

What is the Ko-ken set in the lower right of the second photo? Some sort of flip bit?

Drain plug key set for removing various types of oil or differential drain plugs.

 

[ricleh]

how do they compared to this Anex one?


It's been on my wishlist for a while, just need a few justification to pull the trigger

I have several of the small Anex impact drivers. They are great for small fasteners, but not really designed for use on normal size fasteners. I use them on 00, 0 and 1 size phillips screws primarily.

 

[Dave455]

Thanks.
I find it funny how everyone here makes excuses for Koken with their century-old technology 20T ratchets. "The backdrag.... the knurling...."
Ok, but 18* of handle swing in a confined space is still 18* and that doesn't always work. You can buy a VIM with 48 teeth for a fraction of the $ as Koken. Yeah, I know it's made in Taiwan and that's not **** here like Japan is. But this is exactly why I don't own a single Koken ratchet- they're decades behind even the generic competition like Gearwrench.
But I do own several sets of Koken sockets.

I think it’s because KoKen are basically very decent tools, and very good value.

If you don’t like the low tooth count ratchet then you always have the option of the Z Series, at a bit more cost.

The backdrag on the standard ratchets is low. Many low tooth count ratchets have quite high backdrag, but KoKen do not, so it’s not just an excuse, it is relevant.

For what it’s worth, I generally describe KoKen as 90% of Snap On, for 35% of the cost. The 10% where they fall short are the standard ratchets.

A Dual 80 will also solve the issue, at a cost, but I’m not sure about 1/4” drive. I have several Snap On Dual 80’s and they seem to work far better in 3/8” than they do in 1/4”. Maybe it’s because the teeth end up so small in 1/4”?

I have several “low tooth” ratchets in 1/4”, not just KoKen but also Hazet and Stahlwille. They are all nice tools to use.

 

[Steel_Rain]

I find it funny how everyone here makes excuses for Koken with their century-old technology 20T ratchets.

Steve, have you tried any of the Z-series ratchets? You have a good point on the 20T stuff. I do think the 72T z-series ratchets are amazing value for the money (to Dave's point) and it's hard to convince someone unless they own/try one. I actually felt the same way, being a long time SO owner, until I bought one and used it for a few weeks.

My go-to for the last 2ish years: https://drpd.cc/ratchets-sockets/3-...ratchet-flex-long-w-quick-release-3726zb-280/

 

[Shelbylex]

Good evening. Does anybody remember when Koken USA and Palmac start Black Friday sales and what is the code? Thinking about getting 3/8 metric regular and deep koken sets - want to compare the prices to DRPD...

 

[Steve_P]

Steve, have you tried any of the Z-series ratchets? You have a good point on the 20T stuff. I do think the 72T z-series ratchets are amazing value for the money (to Dave's point) and it's hard to convince someone unless they own/try one. I actually felt the same way, being a long time SO owner, until I bought one and used it for a few weeks.

My go-to for the last 2ish years: https://drpd.cc/ratchets-sockets/3-...ratchet-flex-long-w-quick-release-3726zb-280/

No, I've never used any Koken ratchet. Which, I know, is an excuse to ignore everything after this; and that is fine. But why would I spend 2X+ more than a 90T Gearwrench, Tekton..... for a Koken with less teeth, maybe 25% of the teeth, that has no other advantage? I know the back drag. But if I have no issue with the GW 90T, Tekton 90T.... back drag, they work just fine- and I have old Williams that are unusable due to the back drag in some situations, so I know good vs terrible. Anyway, why would I bother spending significantly more on Koken for a much larger head, less- or a fraction of the teeth, a fraction of the selection, a fraction of the availability in the US, and a "comfort" handle that looks about big enough for three fingers vs a GW 90T? For a ratchet that looks like a 1975 Proto? I know tough audience

One of the few times I ever laughed at a Project Farm test is when he tested the 1/4" ratchets and the Koken was the only one that couldn't do a single iteration on his degree wheel test. Somehow that ultra-low back drag doesn't defeat math with those 20? teeth LOL. But you could go to Home Depot, or most chain auto parts stores, in the US, and buy something for less than half the price that did better than Koken in almost all of the tests. I know, blasphemy, they're not made in Japan. But that's reality if you're not wed to COO.

And yes, I know Koken makes 72T ratchets, but the vast majority of their ratchets are *still* 30 teeth or less. This would be fine if it was 1975, but it no longer is. They need to step up their game on ratchets and I've been saying this for years. I'm not against the Koken price; I have Matco 88T, Snap on 72T.... But even $50 for a 20-tooth bit ratchet is just laughable today. Yes, their 72T ratchets are certainly much better, but still lacking against the 90T Taiwan ratchets in everything but back drag. And, again, if the Gearwrench works for back drag, then that's enough for most of us with 10X the availability, more selection, fraction of the price.....

The reality is that Koken has their main Japanese base customers and their overseas niche customers and that works for them. That's fine. I probably have $300 worth of their sockets, but not one ratchet. And I'm a fan of the sockets that I have as they're the innovative designs- shorty zeal, nut grip, spark plug sockets with clips.

I feel the same way about PB Swiss; yes, I have some stuff by them, but I feel that most of their line is overrated here based on the COO bias. Yes, both Koken and PB have awesome quality; but if it was made in Taiwan, and on Amazon, the fanbase would be smaller here.

Saying that, again, what I have from Koken and PB I am totally satisfied with, and think is awesome. So, there's that

 

[F-22]

for a Koken with less teeth, maybe 25% of the teeth

I think you are exaggerating the importance of teeth. The Z ratchets are common and fine enough so that the teeth number becomes irrelevant. Don't fall for marketing too hard, a bigger number only sounds cool but is meaningless beyond a certain point (at around 60 teeth).

PB Swiss is pricey in the US, they are a bit more reasonable in Europe.

 

[GeoBruin]

No, I've never used any Koken ratchet. Which, I know, is an excuse to ignore everything after this; and that is fine. But why would I spend 2X+ more than a 90T Gearwrench, Tekton..... for a Koken with less teeth, maybe 25% of the teeth, that has no other advantage? I know the back drag. But if I have no issue with the GW 90T, Tekton 90T.... back drag, they work just fine- and I have old Williams that are unusable due to the back drag in some situations, so I know good vs terrible. Anyway, why would I bother spending significantly more on Koken for a much larger head, less- or a fraction of the teeth, a fraction of the selection, a fraction of the availability in the US, and a "comfort" handle that looks about big enough for three fingers vs a GW 90T? For a ratchet that looks like a 1975 Proto? I know tough audience

One of the few times I ever laughed at a Project Farm test is when he tested the 1/4" ratchets and the Koken was the only one that couldn't do a single iteration on his degree wheel test. Somehow that ultra-low back drag doesn't defeat math with those 20? teeth LOL. But you could go to Home Depot, or most chain auto parts stores, in the US, and buy something for less than half the price that did better than Koken in almost all of the tests. I know, blasphemy, they're not made in Japan. But that's reality if you're not wed to COO.

And yes, I know Koken makes 72T ratchets, but the vast majority of their ratchets are *still* 30 teeth or less. This would be fine if it was 1975, but it no longer is. They need to step up their game on ratchets and I've been saying this for years. I'm not against the Koken price; I have Matco 88T, Snap on 72T.... But even $50 for a 20-tooth bit ratchet is just laughable today. Yes, their 72T ratchets are certainly much better, but still lacking against the 90T Taiwan ratchets in everything but back drag. And, again, if the Gearwrench works for back drag, then that's enough for most of us with 10X the availability, more selection, fraction of the price.....

The reality is that Koken has their main Japanese base customers and their overseas niche customers and that works for them. That's fine. I probably have $300 worth of their sockets, but not one ratchet. And I'm a fan of the sockets that I have as they're the innovative designs- shorty zeal, nut grip, spark plug sockets with clips.

I feel the same way about PB Swiss; yes, I have some stuff by them, but I feel that most of their line is overrated here based on the COO bias. Yes, both Koken and PB have awesome quality; but if it was made in Taiwan, and on Amazon, the fanbase would be smaller here.

Saying that, again, what I have from Koken and PB I am totally satisfied with, and think is awesome. So, there's that

I think you are exaggerating the importance of teeth. The Z ratchets are common and fine enough so that the teeth number becomes irrelevant. Don't fall for marketing too hard, a bigger number only sounds cool but is meaningless beyond a certain point (at around 60 teeth).

PB Swiss is pricey in the US, they are a bit more reasonable in Europe.

His whole argument is inconsistent. He rails against koken's low tooth count and large head, and says they need to step up their game, but koken just last year released the new z series with 72 teeth, still the lowest back drag, and with one of the most compact heads available. They literally did what he asked and stepped up their game!

He likes Project Farm? They tested the 72 tooth z series and it fared quite well against the competition in the confined space arc swing test, even through it is at a disadvantage against the other ratchets with standard handles because of the larger quasi-comfort grip. It bested several Taiwan ratchets (teng, Capri, craftsman, etc.) with the same or larger number of teeth because the mechanism is very efficient and there wasn't a lot of slop in thr mechanism. It performed only slightly worse than the gearwrench 120 tooth which, according to his love of high tooth count, should have absolutely dominated but didn't because of the slop in the mechanism. Also notable, the koken had the narrowest head of any ratchet in the test, and of course the lowest backdrag other than a geaess ratchet.

He keeps talking about how expensive they are, and how unavailable they are, but you can go buy a koken Zeal 72 tooth 3/8" ratchet on Amazon right now with free shipping for $42.

Finally, he keeps making the argument that his gearwrench with its high back drag "works just fine" but doesn't see how everyone using a ratchet with a lower tooth count thinks that "works just fine". He's selectively ignoring one performance metric in favor of another because it helps make his case.

And he's doing all this in a thread dedicated to Japanese tools. It's bordering on trolling.

 

[F-22]

Besides, Koken is made in Japan. By buying most of the rest you are supporting China. And overall I'm okay with Taiwan, but I am still very much rather supporting Japanese businesses. However, supporting China is not something I desire due to multiple issues...

I don't have any issue at all when you buy stuff straight from a Chinese business. It is a whole different thing when there's an in-between western brand, as that is what usually leads to most extreme cost cutting and the human right issues that happen in Chinese manufacturing.

All of that for what, the price difference of an extra beer at the pub? Koken is dirt cheap for what you get, considering it was probably made in a somewhat decent production environment.

 

[Dave455]

I’ve got a fair bit of KoKen. A fair number of KoKen ratchet’s too.

View all these things with open eyes. Are KoKen ratchet‘s in the Snap On Dual 80 league? No! They are however, close.

KoKen ratchet’s are very good quality. The steel, the heat treatment, the fit, the finish are all excellent. More importantly, they are strong. Maybe not as strong as some, but they were one of the first that I saw folks using to break loose fasteners, and they took it where many top European tools didn’t.

The only negatives, compared to Snap On, are the low tooth count, and a slightly less durable finish. Compared to many Euro ratchets, they offer a combination of features that others don’t. Metal handle - not on the Hazet HiPer. All metal construction - not on Stahlwille fine tooth. Full range including long and flex handles - not by Facom.

Understand that, a regular Snap On 3/8 ratchet currently retails in the U.K. for £130. The much vaunted Tekton seems like a bargain at £32. I might even have bought a Tekton, if they and Snap On were the only games in town, but they are not.

I don’t think I could count the number of good quality ratchet’s available here, but at just £44, the KoKen is in Tekton territory price wise, not Snap On. Not 2x Tekton price either. That’s full retail price too. Probably a lot cheaper from Japan right now.

I’ll be honest, I can afford a Snap On. In fact, I own several. Do I want to use them for every job? Do I want to use one to work on a brake cylinder covered in brake fluid? Or lying under a car where it’s going to get dropped in the dirt? Or working outside in the wet installing a fence post? Probably not. But I’m more than happy to use my inexpensive KoKen’s, and I’m probably going to be using KoKen sockets anyway ( many of which equal, some of which exceed, Snap On quality).

Is the tooth count an issue in any of those cases? Not in the slightest. As soon as it is I’ll find something different. Am I happy with KoKen ratchets? Yes. I wouldn’t have bought what I have if I wasn’t.

The roto head is the best quality I’ve found anywhere, at any price.

 

[Shelbylex]

Hi. Can I ask somebody to make couple of pictures of regular 3/8 drive metric Koken sockets in regular and deep? (from the side and from the top). Trying to see how they look and if they have deep or shallow space for the bolts (shallow being similar to Snap ON SFSM sockets (https://www.ebay.com/itm/115049377887?_skw=snap+on+black+ring+socket&epid=1511851742&itmmeta=01JDQFJYNG50W5ZJEGR7AVB6PM&hash=item1ac97a305f:g:LPsAAOSw2gVhaweV&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAABAHoV3kP08IDx+KZ9MfhVJKlKzUTn6eVM7fGGQoOJdID4xd61noOC5/zGsV7tt337MQ+WXJ5njgxqubqrhq4i4BpypvBjk+1NTzMN2xJ1RCEGbium9iPMtOAnIvcb3eNFHBK2yTAyV6vEPmDr3d9rJo5sCsGSfPlEc1x1Yku/oVlUkduvl02udjMh5N0v4C+s8BbF1iiQOkEz4xxlWk9f7B0yYmAoYgHdDZF2+sh+qI6ELQgy1EU582fx7ABi15rePyk7T3I4dbP1UnVezT586mqi6Wpz2iWRqi3zjXvPOdaSDHHmQuRDG96OTFht/TkC3Z5xLQvv8YnBFUDTdJ0uW14=|tkp:Bk9SR_Tqy-_tZA ) ... Not mine, using an example. I already have some deep SFSM ones (need to complete the set though - would probably prefer more regular depth for another set)

I also have noticed that Koken extensions all on sale appear to be swivel now. I thought they had regular ones as well. Does anybody have model name for regular?

Thank you

 

[Dave455]

Hi. Can I ask somebody to make couple of pictures of regular 3/8 drive metric Koken sockets in regular and deep? (from the side and from the top). Trying to see how they look and if they have deep or shallow space for the bolts (shallow being similar to Snap ON SFSM sockets (https://www.ebay.com/itm/115049377887?_skw=snap+on+black+ring+socket&epid=1511851742&itmmeta=01JDQFJYNG50W5ZJEGR7AVB6PM&hash=item1ac97a305f:g:LPsAAOSw2gVhaweV&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAABAHoV3kP08IDx+KZ9MfhVJKlKzUTn6eVM7fGGQoOJdID4xd61noOC5/zGsV7tt337MQ+WXJ5njgxqubqrhq4i4BpypvBjk+1NTzMN2xJ1RCEGbium9iPMtOAnIvcb3eNFHBK2yTAyV6vEPmDr3d9rJo5sCsGSfPlEc1x1Yku/oVlUkduvl02udjMh5N0v4C+s8BbF1iiQOkEz4xxlWk9f7B0yYmAoYgHdDZF2+sh+qI6ELQgy1EU582fx7ABi15rePyk7T3I4dbP1UnVezT586mqi6Wpz2iWRqi3zjXvPOdaSDHHmQuRDG96OTFht/TkC3Z5xLQvv8YnBFUDTdJ0uW14=|tkp:Bk9SR_Tqy-_tZA ) ... Not mine, using an example. I already have some deep SFSM ones (need to complete the set though - would probably prefer more regular depth for another set)

I also have noticed that Koken extensions all on sale appear to be swivel now. I thought they had regular ones as well. Does anybody have model name for regular?

Thank you

Here you go!


The broach depth on the deep socket is slightly deeper than the shallow socket, but by no means full depth.

Proportionally similar on the other sizes.

 

[Dave455]

Regular extensions are 2760, 3760 and 4760 in 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 inch respectively. Add a suffix for the length.


3/4 and 1” are 6760 and 8760. For impact, put a ”1” in front of the above numbers.

 

[Shelbylex]

Thank you, Dave455!!! Appreciate it!

 

[Rinspeed]

No, I've never used any Koken ratchet. Which, I know, is an excuse to ignore everything after this; and that is fine. But why would I spend 2X+ more than a 90T Gearwrench, Tekton..... for a Koken with less teeth, maybe 25% of the teeth, that has no other advantage? I know the back drag. But if I have no issue with the GW 90T, Tekton 90T.... back drag, they work just fine- and I have old Williams that are unusable due to the back drag in some situations, so I know good vs terrible.

Lol.

 

[mjdarg]

I use the regular Koken extensions with the zeal swivel adapters. I had SO wobble extensions previously, but love the knurling on the extensions, and the zeal swivels are nice and compact. They hold their position well and have 30° of articulation, a bit more than a wobble. They work well with SO ratchets and sockets. I don't have the 1/2" extensions or swivel yet, but I may have to pick it up this holiday season.

 

[john.k]

Historically,Koken was sold by the big industrial supply houses .........and these prople never gave discounts to small buyers........in fact many had 'reverse' discounts ,ones and twos cost a premium of up to 50% handling fee.

 

[Andres26tnt]

What do you do on Thanksgiving when you bored in Japan? Well shopping .

I needed some home supplies for the new house. Never been to Sunday home improvement, so off we went.

Overall the place is. Very well stocked, I would say tool prices are higher here. Similar items are cheaper in Amazon or any online shop. It's really nice to feel the tools on hand for sure. They have a great selection. Not going to name them all. But here are some pictures, I was impressed by the IPS water pump pliers. Not sure about the coo, didn't say anywhere like the other IPS tools.

 

[Andres26tnt]

Second dump

Ended up picking up the SK11 auto adjust locking pliers(Taiwan) they felt good and the auto adjustment will come in handy. Also picked up a sunflag(Japan) mechanic fingers, needed some for my upcoming junkyard box build. Finally we went past a second hand store, so you know the wife had to stop(I lied, it was me ). There I picked up and old assortment of vessel nutdrivers, all 8mm. Not sure what I'm doing with them .

If any one has any info on them, chime in please.

 

[username2]

Thanks.
I find it funny how everyone here makes excuses for Koken with their century-old technology 20T ratchets. "The backdrag.... the knurling...."
Ok, but 18* of handle swing in a confined space is still 18* and that doesn't always work. You can buy a VIM with 48 teeth for a fraction of the $ as Koken. Yeah, I know it's made in Taiwan and that's not **** here like Japan is. But this is exactly why I don't own a single Koken ratchet- they're decades behind even the generic competition like Gearwrench.
But I do own several sets of Koken sockets.

They make a 20 tooth ratchet? Too funny. FWIW, I bought an experimental pair of Tsunoda slip-joint pliers and then a week later bought an old pair of Proto slip-join pliers for $1 at the ReStore. I'd have to give the nod to the Proto in terms of niceness. It's silly to get wrapped up in COO as being automatically superior. Maybe the Koken ratchets are intended for the vintage market.

I'd like to take a look at some Koken impact sockets (are there full sets? I haven't seen one) and see if they're nice in some inscrutable way. In my bid for going 100% impact, I dug through my existing stuff and ran into some interesting things. For one (not that anyone cares, but I'll indulge in my logorrhea here), my Sunex 1/4" impacts are not a bit fatter than some Tekton chrome sockets I've got. OTOH, some Ingersoll Rand 3/8" impacts are noticeably fatter than their chrome brethren (Snap-on, Tekton (bought from the Amazon Warehouse)).

 

[F-22]

By the way, I think most of the big german brands like Hazet, Stahlwille and Gedore sell very coarse tooth ratchets alongside the more novel fine tooth ones. I think a lot of the target market of those brands just does not care about that at all. The strong backdrag and pronounced clicks is what many just expect from a "quality" ratchet.

 

[Dave455]

I'd like to take a look at some Koken impact sockets (are there full sets? I haven't seen one) and see if they're nice in some inscrutable way. In my bid for going 100% impact, I dug through my existing stuff and ran into some interesting things. For one (not that anyone cares, but I'll indulge in my logorrhea here), my Sunex 1/4" impacts are not a bit fatter than some Tekton chrome sockets I've got. OTOH, some Ingersoll Rand 3/8" impacts are noticeably fatter than their chrome brethren (Snap-on, Tekton (bought from the Amazon Warehouse)).

Koken impact sockets are very decent.

I’ve got a fair number, also Deltec (British manufacturer, very good) and a few Snap On and Proto. I like the clear marking on the KoKen.

I don’t get too hung up about matching sets of impacts. I view them as a consumable now, and replace worn ones with whatever seems best at the time.

KoKen are probably the premier manufacturer of impact sockets worldwide. I can’t think of any company that makes a greater variety.

They do make some sets, in metal boxes, but if you don’t see what you want just ask your dealer to put together the set you want. There won’t be a great price saving, but unlike many manufacturers who only want to sell sets, KoKen don’t load the prices of individual tools.

 

[john.k]

If you repair dozer tracks ,you use Koken impact sockets on the bolts .........nothing else is any good...........I pay the extra for Koken to use where other tools break .......their T bars and breakers are 50% heavier than others .

 

[tamaraw]

This forum is so full of home gamers, automotive mechanics, collectors, etc. that a lot of threads just forget the industrial market exists.

Historically, Ko-ken's primary market is industrial supply. This is obvious if you look through their catalog which features many items geared towards industrial assembly; sleeve drive, plastic protectors, extension sockets, pathfinder, surface drive, etc. Also the fact that they will custom make whatever special tooling you need.

The industrial market typically uses legacy pattern ratchets in the 20-30 tooth range unless they need something different for a particular application. Proto, Williams, Cornwell, Stahlwille, Hazet, Gedore, etc. These types of ratchets are affordable, durable, and easy to repair or replace. So 1/4" being 20t, 3/8" being 24t, 1/2" being 30t, and 3/4" + 1" being 36t is entirely in line with their market. Their primary ratchets are essentially derivatives of the Proto/Plomb design, often modified for multi-tooth engagement and with tighter tolerances. Compared to other industrial brands, fit and finish of Ko-ken ratchets is pretty darn good.

Complaining about tooth count on industrial Ko-ken is like complaining that a server doesn't have the flashy RGB of your gaming PC. Or that a Freightliner doesn't get the MPG of your Toyota Tacoma. Different tools, different markets.

 

[Andres26tnt]

This forum is so full of home gamers, automotive mechanics, collectors, etc. that a lot of threads just forget the industrial market exists.

Historically, Ko-ken's primary market is industrial supply. This is obvious if you look through their catalog which features many items geared towards industrial assembly; sleeve drive, plastic protectors, extension sockets, pathfinder, surface drive, etc. Also the fact that they will custom make whatever special tooling you need.

The industrial market typically uses legacy pattern ratchets in the 20-30 tooth range unless they need something different for a particular application. Proto, Williams, Cornwell, Stahlwille, Hazet, Gedore, etc. These types of ratchets are affordable, durable, and easy to repair or replace. So 1/4" being 20t, 3/8" being 24t, 1/2" being 30t, and 3/4" + 1" being 36t is entirely in line with their market. Their primary ratchets are essentially derivatives of the Proto/Plomb design, often modified for multi-tooth engagement and with tighter tolerances. Compared to other industrial brands, fit and finish of Ko-ken ratchets is pretty darn good.

Complaining about tooth count on industrial Ko-ken is like complaining that a server doesn't have the flashy RGB of your gaming PC. Or that a Freightliner doesn't get the MPG of your Toyota Tacoma. Different tools, different markets.

It's complaining just to complaint. Koken absolutely makes great tools, not everything is amazing, but they have been updating the line slowly so far.

 

[four.cycle]

^ Not to mention that the "high tooth" ratchet market is pretty whored up currently - everybody's on the bandwagon with 70-tooth, 90-tooth, and now 120-tooth ratchets at crazy cheap prices. ($18 bucks for a little "Titan" 90-tooth!)
If "fine tooth" is all you're after, there are a lot of options to pick from.
Interestingly, almost NONE of the "major" players have jumped into that fray.
Why is that, do you suppose?

 

[ChevyEFI]

I'd like to take a look at some Koken impact sockets (are there full sets? I haven't seen one) and see if they're nice in some inscrutable way. In my bid for going 100% impact, I dug through my existing stuff and ran into some interesting things. For one (not that anyone cares, but I'll indulge in my logorrhea here), my Sunex 1/4" impacts are not a bit fatter than some Tekton chrome sockets I've got. OTOH, some Ingersoll Rand 3/8" impacts are noticeably fatter than their chrome brethren (Snap-on, Tekton (bought from the Amazon Warehouse)).

The 1/4 impact market isn't going to get into heavier hitter impact tools. For many light usage, home gamer or construction types, a cheap set of chrome sockets is going to last long enough to be more than cost effective, get work done, and as long as FOD isn't an issue, be a fine option.

1/2 is a different ballgame with a much broader range of expected torque applied.

3/8 is the new 1/2, as some people see it. But sometimes you have to use 1/4, sometimes 1/2, but duplication in 3/8 works too.

 

[Andres26tnt]

^ Not to mention that the "high tooth" ratchet market is pretty whored up currently - everybody's on the bandwagon with 70-tooth, 90-tooth, and now 120-tooth ratchets at crazy cheap prices. ($18 bucks for a little "Titan" 90-tooth!)
If "fine tooth" is all you're after, there are a lot of options to pick from.
Interestingly, almost NONE of the "major" players have jumped into that fray.
Why is that, do you suppose?

Most already have 80, 90, 100, 120 tools so they are definitely in the game. Trying to think who doesn't. I don't count industrial brands due to the type of work they do.

 

[four.cycle]

^ Well... Proto and Wright are pretty much cranking out the same stuff - (but not as clunky as their old 4749 on the Proto, though)
4749XLQR Proto - 45 tooth
J4752F Proto - 72 tooth
Wright 2426 - 45 tooth
... but all three of these are very nice pieces of machinery.

 

[Fedwrench]

^ Well... Proto and Wright are pretty much cranking out the same stuff - (but not as clunky as their old 4749 on the Proto, though)
4749XLQR Proto - 45 tooth
J4752F Proto - 72 tooth
Wright 2426 - 45 tooth
... but all three of these are very nice pieces of machinery.

Proto also has their Precision 90 series of 90 tooth ratchets which are internally the same as the MAC Axis ratchets with a better designed handle.

 

[four.cycle]

ahhh... I stopped collecting Proto at those above.

 

[john.k]

I have always considered 24 tooth ratchets to be superior to the fine tooth ones ........kinda surprising to see the desire for fine tooth ratchets.

 

[Etchase]

Do FACOM, Stahlwille, or Hazet go over 80 teeth? Koken or KTC? Proto and MAC have 90, but I’m not sure those ratchets are their most popular. Snap on released the 100 tooth one that seems to be downright unpopular. I only know of the Matco 88. So 90 and below, sometimes far below, seem to be targets of high price ratchets. Lower price ratchets in the US seem to be in a tooth war! They don’t break, so I guess they get the job done, and you need something to differentiate yourself in the market. I bought some 160 actual teeth Steelman Cobra’s just to take them apart and look at them. Lol.

 

[Andres26tnt]

Do FACOM, Stahlwille, or Hazet go over 80 teeth? Koken or KTC? Proto and MAC have 90, but I’m not sure those ratchets are their most popular. Snap on released the 100 tooth one that seems to be downright unpopular. I only know of the Matco 88. So 90 and below, sometimes far below, seem to be targets of high price ratchets. Lower price ratchets in the US seem to be in a tooth war! They don’t break, so I guess they get the job done, and you need something to differentiate yourself in the market. I bought some 160 actual teeth Steelman Cobra’s just to take them apart and look at them. Lol.

No, but it's because of getting up there in tooth count with one pawl is hard and also unreliable. Most higher then 90t ratchets are not actually high tooth count ratchets. They are double stacked pawl ratchets with 60t, 45t, 72t and even 90t gears like the 180t craftsman overdrive.

 

[KnurledNut]

Good evening. Does anybody remember when Koken USA and Palmac start Black Friday sales and what is the code? Thinking about getting 3/8 metric regular and deep koken sets - want to compare the prices to DRPD...

Palmac is doing 15% off Koken and Asahi. 10% off entire store. No code needed. Thru Dec 2.

 

[DekNgo]

Palmac is doing 15% off Koken and Asahi. 10% off entire store. No code needed. Thru Dec 2.

And Ko-Ken USA is 30% sitewide. No code needed.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

This forum is so full of home gamers, automotive mechanics, collectors, etc. that a lot of threads just forget the industrial market exists.

Historically, Ko-ken's primary market is industrial supply. This is obvious if you look through their catalog which features many items geared towards industrial assembly; sleeve drive, plastic protectors, extension sockets, pathfinder, surface drive, etc. Also the fact that they will custom make whatever special tooling you need.

The industrial market typically uses legacy pattern ratchets in the 20-30 tooth range unless they need something different for a particular application. Proto, Williams, Cornwell, Stahlwille, Hazet, Gedore, etc. These types of ratchets are affordable, durable, and easy to repair or replace. So 1/4" being 20t, 3/8" being 24t, 1/2" being 30t, and 3/4" + 1" being 36t is entirely in line with their market. Their primary ratchets are essentially derivatives of the Proto/Plomb design, often modified for multi-tooth engagement and with tighter tolerances. Compared to other industrial brands, fit and finish of Ko-ken ratchets is pretty darn good.

Complaining about tooth count on industrial Ko-ken is like complaining that a server doesn't have the flashy RGB of your gaming PC. Or that a Freightliner doesn't get the MPG of your Toyota Tacoma. Different tools, different markets.

I literally said this same thing in a thread where everyone was complaining about why manufacturers keep making standard wrenches instead of defaulting to long pattern as the standard size. I had to remind everyone that length isn’t a priority in the industrial sector which is probably the biggest tool market. Not as many people are exposed to manufacturing anymore and thus they do not understand that all those robots and machines can be built and maintained rather easily with crude tools. Sure, I love the way my Matco ratchets feel but my shop foreman has to ask if those ratchets can survive Timmy the half methed-up, two hours of sleep a night, Monster chugging small-time farmer turned part-time machinist apprentice who decides everything is a sledgehammer when he misreads a print for the Nth time and cannot properly align the inserts for a die assembly.