Bemis wrench someone took a looks like a center. Punch smashed out the name. Whoever owned it or whatever company I don't know pretty sad

[silvabullet]

I was doing a google search on the wrench and it let me hear, pretty cool yeah, somebody uh, looks like they tried to block the name that was on it. They looks like they hit it with a punch or something. Very bizarre. Looks like it has a number 91 Yeah, interesting very interesting out the name that was on it, but it's a Bemis.

 

[Mike'smeatshop]

I was doing a google search on the wrench and it let me hear, pretty cool yeah, somebody uh, looks like they tried to block the name that was on it. They looks like they hit it with a punch or something. Very bizarre. Looks like it has a number 91 Yeah, interesting very interesting out the name that was on it, but it's a Bemis.

Yea. That was the Monday morning the boss walked by and said, look busy the owner is here. Look busy.

 

[four.cycle]

Hello @silvabullet and welcome to the site!

keep this link handy at all times

and this one too

You can find more information about the manufacturer at any of the link below:

Bemis & Call / Bemis & Call, 125 Main St., Springfield, MA / patent 6002 Jan 2 1849 Frederick H. Bartholomew and Solyman Merrick & 23751 Apr 26 1859 Albert D. Briggs / http://alloy-artifacts.org/other-makers.html#bc / https://lostnewengland.com/2017/12/bemis-call-tool-factory-springfield-mass/ / https://www.garagejournal.com/forum...ware-and-tool-co-6-inch-monkey-wrench.490149/ / https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/bemis-call-brand-tools.406180/ / https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/bemis-call-h-t-wrench.368211/ / https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/bemis-call-b-m-r-r-wrench.469075/ /

 

[d42jeep]

One more Bemis & Call link

Show us your Bemis & Call Combination Wrench

Hello All, I found this Bemis & Call Combination monkey and pipe wrench. It's in good working condition. I noticed it seems to be an early version by it's markings. According to Alloy Artifacts the monkey/pipe wrench combination patent date is 1893. The last patent date on my wrench appears to...

www.garagejournal.com

-Don

 

[four.cycle]

^ because... four threads on Bemis & Call aren't enough, right?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

because... four threads on Bemis & Call aren't enough, right?

We've talked about this before. It's a good example of what I will call topic proliferation.

Here's the data on the five (5) B&C threads linked above, in chronological order, so we can see how it unfolded...

Title of Thread | Date Started | Total Posts | Status of OP

1/ "Bemis & Call H&T wrench?" | Aug 18, 2017 | 12 Posts | Last seen on Nov 19, 2021
2/ "Bemis & Call Brand tools?" | Nov 6, 2018 | 17 Posts | Last seen on Nov 12, 2018
3/ "Bemis & Call B.&M.R.R. wrench" | Dec 10, 2020 | 8 Posts | Last seen on Dec 17, 2020
4/ "Bemis & Call Hardware and Tool 6-inch Monkeywrench" | Nov 29, 2021 | 2 Posts | Active Member
5/ "Show us your Bemis & Call Combination Wrench" | Jun 18, 2022 | 25 Posts | Active Member

Without picking on anyone, and without any editorialization, because none is needed, this is what happens when someone posts a thread without looking to see if there is already a thread on the same topic. One could argue that the last three are more specific (customer marking, size, type) than just manufacturer/brand, but that's not typical for the board, and it's not desirable.

That's not just my opinion. The board has an actual built-in feature explicitly intended to suppress and diminish topic proliferation - prompting you with a big "Is this already being discussed?" question and list of all other threads with the same words in the title - before you hit the [Post thread] button.

Go ahead and pretend to start a new thread on Bemis & Call. Type "Bemis" into the title template. It will retrieve and present you with a list of threads containing references to "Bemis", including all the threads you and Don linked, and more.

The A-Z Index in the Sticky has helped suppress topic proliferation. The last thread - not to reward the latest-comer, but it has the most posts, and the OP is an active member - is the B&C thread in the Sticky. But the site does not force members to consult the Sticky before starting a thread, any more than it forces them to pay attention to the "Is this already being discussed?" and list of similar threads prompt, any more than it forces them to simply run a Search on "Bemis" themselves.

Which is why we have yet another thread on the same topic with a string of words I will not call a sentence as a title for fear of turning over Sister Gracia, Sister Britto, Sister Mary-Margaret, Mrs. Turpin, Mr. Geiger, Mr. Yeager, and Mr. Paul West (yes, the novelist) in their graves.

 

[four.cycle]

^ You're not going to get any argument from me on that point. Drives me nuts trying to keep up with it, as I am doing my best to include in the LIST the URL for the appropriate GarageJournal thread.
You and I have discussed this more than once, and I think we're both in agreement that the "thread proliferation" is a detriment to the overall picture, because the information is scattered all over the site and effectively lost in the morass.

As they say: You can lead a horse to water....

 

[Boogerman]

You guys are using the board as a personal reference for your interest, and expect others to have the same interest and add to the reference materials in a systematic way. Since it's the internet, most are using it as a quick, easy way to get someone else to offer an opinion on something they have a passing interest in, and they have essentially no scholarly interest in the overall data and how it is stored.

It's a different facet of another behavior, where you guys will be pleased to acquire, restore and store an item, discuss and document it, but I throw it in my scrap metal bucket when I get one, because can't sell it for $10 plus shipping. Difference between collector interest and desire to clean out junk as expeditiously as possible, with an unwillingness to work for less than $20 per hour to do so.

A work around would be for one of you to take this guys post, copy it, and paste it into the favorite thread so the data is there. For future reference, you could add a post to note that you've done that to this thread.

 

[four.cycle]

^ We (Lugnutz and I) do not have the ability to "move" a post (or a thread) and doing so would make any thread more confusing - the timeline would be broken up. There really is no practical "work around".

It's really not all that difficult - on ANY website using this type of format - to find the appropriate thread on the subject you're looking for. It's a matter of seconds - simply using the "search" function - which is easily found on any "discussion thread" site. (I just posted an entry a few days ago on "multitool.org" - took me all of about 5 seconds to find the appropriate thread.)

As @Private Lugnutz notes above: there is a prompt that comes up when starting a new thread telling you "there's already a thread on this." Ignoring that is simply laziness or indifference - there are no other "reasons" for it.

 

[Boogerman]

^ We (Lugnutz and I) do not have the ability to "move" a post (or a thread) and doing so would make any thread more confusing - the timeline would be broken up. There really is no practical "work around".

It's really not all that difficult - on ANY website using this type of format - to find the appropriate thread on the subject you're looking for. It's a matter of seconds - simply using the "search" function - which is easily found on any "discussion thread" site. (I just posted an entry a few days ago on "multitool.org" - took me all of about 5 seconds to find the appropriate thread.)

As @Private Lugnutz notes above: there is a prompt that comes up when starting a new thread telling you "there's already a thread on this." Ignoring that is simply laziness or indifference - there are no other "reasons" for i

Added it to the thread for you, I don't have any special abilities, but was able to do it easily.

Show us your Bemis & Call Combination Wrench

Hello All, I found this Bemis & Call Combination monkey and pipe wrench. It's in good working condition. I noticed it seems to be an early version by it's markings. According to Alloy Artifacts the monkey/pipe wrench combination patent date is 1893. The last patent date on my wrench appears to...

www.garagejournal.com

I agree it's indifference, that's what I said in my post above. what is very frustrating to you and seems important, is pretty inconsequential to the random internet user with a first post that gets sent here by google. If we want to keep this information all in one thread, it's up to us to do it ourselves, we can affect our behavior, but not some random internet user's.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I don't know who "you guys" refers to, @Boogerman, but the overwhelming majority of regulars down here on the Vintage Tools Discussion Forum have unmistakably demonstrated a persistent interest in making their contributions (examples, questions, period references, etc) to existing threads by topic (types and brands). There are all kinds of on-going conversations on markings, production, history, etc, by topic (types and brands). That's not a matter of personal interest or desire by me or anyone else to enforce a more systematic or organized approach. It's just the way it is. Any decent amount of consistent time down here will show you that. Or you can visit the A-Z Index of Threads in the Sticky and see dozens of long-standing threads on the most popular topics (types and brands). Nobody is making all those members post in those threads, because nobody needs to. It's just common sense.

As for dupe topic threads, we've always had them pop up, but the frequency is very low, and they usually die a quick death on pages 2 through 537, right after someone helpfully points out we already have a thread on that topic, providing a link, and/or a prompt to read the Sticky. Most of those are "random internet guys" with only "passing interest" and, I would add, a lazy, presumptuous approach to getting to know a new forum website. And most don't show up again. But sometimes they stick around and become valuable members.

I was just 'splaining to 4.c, even though I know he already knows how it happens.

They are frustrating, but certainly no biggie, and I am under no illusions of them slowing down or stopping any time soon.

A work around would be for one of you to take this guys post, copy it, and paste it into the favorite thread so the data is there. For future reference, you could add a post to note that you've done that to this thread.

Again, this isn't the first time we've encountered newbie dupe topic threads. Most of the time I ignore them. When I think the new random thread on an existing topic is significant, rather than copy-and-pasting, I usually just cross-link them. Posting a link to the existing thread in the new thread for the benefit of the newbie, and one in the existing thread for the benefit of all the regulars who may not see the new random thread. But I have copy-pasted, too. A good example is a strange pretzel logo marking on the Long C thread. But I am not the only one. Lots of regulars helpfully do that.

 

[Modern Garage]

Re: Boogerman's post about how the website is used -
It seems odd to me that when a Googler search brings a person here that they would start a new topic to post a question and then have to wait for an answer vs. just looking for the information almost instantly available in the existing topics. I guess the reason is a cultural/age/attitude thing that I'd rather not dredge up...

Lugz - did you have so many English teachers out of an interest in the subject or a necessity?

 

[RTM]

Sister Gracia, Sister Britto, Sister Mary-Margaret, Mrs. Turpin, Mr. Geiger, Mr. Yeager, and Mr. Paul West (yes, the novelist) in their graves

Lugz - did you have so many English teachers out of an interest in the subject or a necessity

I think I had at least that many who formed my language skills. We won't discuss how many times I was held back.

 

[Boogerman]

I don't know who "you guys" refers to,.....

I was referring generically to the more serious collectors that post a lot here, in contrast to the general mass of humanity that google points here, and that make a post, hoping they've found kindred souls that have an interest in tools.

I've seen it time after time on forums, and see it somewhat here. Someone that has a interest makes a post, and the regulars that are irritated that someone that doesn't know what they know and hasn't been studying the forum for years come down on him and splain to him that he should have been spending those years researching it, and still can by scanning the old posts on the forum. That promising new interest says FU and goes away without posting again. Nothing like chasing all the newbies away out of a hobby, so that the aging 60 and 70 and 80 year olds can mumble on to themselves here until they die.

That was my point; give some grace to the newbies and answer their posts with positive reinforcement, and if it really bothers you to have the parallel threads, link them, and gently encourage the OP to participate on your preferred thread.

I recognize how irritating it is to have newbie questions outside of our comfortable, well worn conversation tracks, but for the sake of overall politeness, I wouldn't shut them down.

Edit Postscript:

Even if they don't have the virtue of having english beat into them by the likes of Sister Gracia, Sister Britto, Sister Mary-Margaret, Mrs. Turpin, Mr. Geiger, Mr. Yeager, and Mr. Paul West!

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

I was doing a google search on the wrench and it let me hear, pretty cool yeah, somebody uh, looks like they tried to block the name that was on it. They looks like they hit it with a punch or something. Very bizarre. Looks like it has a number 91 Yeah, interesting very interesting out the name that was on it, but it's a Bemis.

Likely the guy was trying to keep his tools from getting stolen. Marking them in a unique way. Many of us working with our tools do that. Doubt he cared what a future collector would think.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

@Boogerman
Nobody shut the OP down. Not even close. 4.c welcomed him and provided links. And if you'd hang out down here more consistently, you'd see that it is a very common approach by many regulars. My reply was to 4.c, not the OP.

I guess the reason is a cultural/age/attitude thing that I'd rather not dredge up...

Too late!

Lugz - did you have so many English teachers out of an interest in the subject or a necessity?

It was a favorite subject and those were all my favorite teachers.

 

[silvabullet]

The people crying again. I found a wrench I can't find online.Maybe the cool people know. Which is a twelve spark plug the billings inspire company.

 

[four.cycle]

Billings & Spencer / Billings & Spencer Co., Laurel and Park St., Hartford, CT / acquired by Crescent Niagara Corp. 1962 / patent 115678 Jun 6 1871 William Henry Barwick & 172649 Jan 25 1876 Albert A. Pease & 212298 Feb 18 1879 & D26111 Sep 29 1896 & 212298 Feb 18 1879 & 260359 Jul 4 1882 Charles E. Billings & 295885 Mar 25 1884 Herbert S. Pullman & 349496 Sep 21 1886 Randolph Hayden & 470777 Mar 15 1892 Charles E. Billings & 518041 Apr 10 1894 J.A. Lowe & 525311 Aug 28 1894 & 536063 Mar 18 1895 & 554046 Feb 4 1896 & 599379 Feb 22 1898 Charles E. Billings & 669721 Mar 12 1901 Walter H. Bruce & 804351 Nov 14 1905 William R. Tomlinson & 818025 Apr 17 1906 Edwin A. Hardison & 818371 Apr 17 1906 Samuel N. Hall & patent CA July 26 1894 James Allen Lowe / http://alloy-artifacts.org/billings-spencer-company.html / http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgIndex/detail.aspx?id=2522 / https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/charles-billings-christopher-spencer.277390/ / https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/lets-see-your-billings-and-spencer-goodies.390065/ /

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I found a wrench I can't find online. Maybe the cool people know.

If you click on the Sticky at the top of this forum that reads READ B4 POSTING! you'll find an A-Z Index of Threads in this forum, whether they are currently active on page 1 or not. In that A-Z Index of Threads you'll find a long list of topics here on the GJ Vintage Tools Discussion Forum, by type and brand. In the by brand section you'll find a 'Billings & Spencer' thread. If you search on "812" inside that 'Billings & Spencer' thread, it will show you a post in that thread where I posted several photos of my B&S No. 812 Spark Plug wrench, identified by model number, along with a catalog excerpt. Alternately, if you search this forum on "812" using the Search tool at the upper right, it would take you to the same post in the 'Billings & Spencer' thread.

No coolness required. Just a working knowledge of the alphabet and a willingness to simply use a few of the features that have been provided for finding things here.

 

[Debcrow]

I was doing a google search on the wrench and it let me hear, pretty cool yeah, somebody uh, looks like they tried to block the name that was on it. They looks like they hit it with a punch or something. Very bizarre. Looks like it has a number 91 Yeah, interesting very interesting out the name that was on it, but it's a Bemis.

Perhaps the wrench did not belong to Bemis so the owner Butthead punched the name out....

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...so the owner Butthead punched the name out....

Hey, who are you "CALL"-ing a butthead?!

Believe it or not, your comment has some serious resonance in the hobby.

When I first saw the OP's photos, for one brief, fleeting moment, due to the way that only the "BEMIS" is obliterated, deliberately leaving the "& CALL" part of the marking visible, I thought, 'Was there a breakup of Bemis & Call that I had forgotten about?' Surplus tools being crudely remarked after corporate re-organizations or other changes, but before the line can be re-tooled (names ground off, old logos overstamped with new logos, etc) has some precedence.

But B&C was sold to Billings & Spencer in 1939 with their long-standing partnership intact, and, if you look on the flip side of the wrench, that rectangular field of punch marks - which is surely a proprietary marking, was stamped in the exact same place, obliterating only the "SPRING" in "SPRINGFIELD."

 

[four.cycle]

If you click on the Sticky at the top of this forum that reads READ B4 POSTING! you'll find an A-Z Index of Threads in this forum, whether they are currently active on page 1 or not. In that A-Z Index of Threads you'll find a long list of topics here on the GJ Vintage Tools Discussion Forum, by type and brand. In the by brand section you'll find a 'Billings & Spencer' thread. If you search on "812" inside that 'Billings & Spencer' thread, it will show you a post in that thread where I posted several photos of my B&S No. 812 Spark Plug wrench, identified by model number, along with a catalog excerpt. Alternately, if you search this forum on "812" using the Search tool at the upper right, it would take you to the same post in the 'Billings & Spencer' thread.

No coolness required. Just a working knowledge of the alphabet and a willingness to simply use a few of the features that have been provided for finding things here.

Alternatively, you can always check THE LIST (cited above in post #7 of this thread) and usually find the appropriate GarageJournal.com thread for that particular brand.
No coolness required there, either.

 

[WAS Jr]

Although I know little compared to the true experts here, could it be possible that the name was defaced at the factory? I know I’ve seen several vises (for example) where the name was eliminated because of a cosmetic casting defect. The item was still functional, just not as “pretty”, and was sold with no warranty or a shorter warranty.
bill s

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Quality Control failed factory second is an experientially informed and reasonable line of thinking, @WAS Jr, and very similar to my allusion to a deliberate factory defacing for a different reason (corporate breakup, see post #21), Note, though, that only the "BEMIS" in "BEMIS & CALL" was defaced, so unless only Mr. Bemis was ashamed to put his name on a tool that his partner, Mr. Call, was not, kinda sorta reduces the plausibility. Also, if you read post #21, you'll see I pointed out that the "marking" (if we can call a rectangular field of non-uniform dots made with a pin punch that) is in the exact same location on the flip side, obliterating only the "SPRING" in "SPRINGFIELD." Leaving "& CALL" legible on one side and "FIELD" legible on the other. My hunch is an owner's proprietary marking.

 

[crguy]

Although I know little compared to the true experts here, could it be possible that the name was defaced at the factory? I know I’ve seen several vises (for example) where the name was eliminated because of a cosmetic casting defect. The item was still functional, just not as “pretty”, and was sold with no warranty or a shorter warranty.
bill s

I've seen several examples of names being taken off tools by the factory, and all were done by grinding or machining. The punch work would take longer and doesn't look as good as grinding/machining, so I doubt it was done at the factory.

 

[four.cycle]

^ exactly.
"Factory" branding obliteration looks more like:

{look closely)