Best direct-to-consumer Minisplit for heating in colder climates?

[pembol]

I am starting to plan for a DIY mini split install in a 1000 sq ft detached garage that is just being finished up now. The climate is Colorado at 5800', so mean Dec/Jan low around 23F, mean Dec/Jan daytime temps around 37F. It looks like I would need a 24kBTUh unit. We occasionally get cold snaps with below zero temps for a day or so, but I am not concerned about that, as I wouldn't use the garage when it is that cold and I don't need to heat it all the time. I am most concerned about the output and efficiency (COP) at temperatures around 20-25F, which would be a normal Dec/Jan morning or evening. This will be all solar powered so efficiency matters, but solar panels are also cheap.....

So far I have looked at the usual suspects, Mr Cool Olympus Hyper heat, Pioneer Hyperformance, Senville Ultra-High-Efficiency. The spec sheets on these are lacking, but by reading between the lines I can guestimate the following perfomance:

	Heat Output 17F	Heat Output 25F	COP 17 or 25F
MrCool Olympus	27,000	27,000	2.3 (25F)
Pioneer Hyperfromance	21,000	24,000	? Guess at 2.5 (17F)
Senville	15,400	?	? guess at 1.7 (17F)

For reference the Mitsubishi hyper heat 24k (MSZ/MUZ) has a capacity of 26,000 Btuh at 17F and a COP of 2.22 at 17F.

Are there other units I should be looking at? Any have real spec sheets for the Pioneer or Senville?

 

[theoldwizard1]

Watching

 

[pembol]

Here is another contender:

Blueridge BMKH2422 24,000 BTU (2 Ton) 21.5 SEER / 21.5 SEER2 - R-410A - S5 SERIES - 208/230V ULTRA HEAT Single Zone Ductless Mini-Split Heat Pump System w/ WiFi

www.alpinehomeair.com

It appears to be a Gree Saphire. If the specs are to be believed, it is pretty amazing:

S5 extended heating and cooling performance data 5/23

docs.google.com

At 25F outside temp the output on 24k unit is 28kBTUh, and the COP is 2.6. At 17F the output is 26kBTUh and the COP is 2.5. This is better than the Mitsubishi (if they are right).

 

[fitter30]

Mitsubishi’s H2i P2 series full heating capacity to 5° then it drops off to -13°

 

[pcmeiners]

What does w/w stand for in the ? Bet that is the average COP, not a big deal, a high efficiency Fujitsu can bet that.

"Seasonal rating of up to 38 SEER cooling and 15 HSPF heating"... "up to" is not the same thing as a SEER and HSPF stated in a certificate. Those "up to" numbers are inflated, are taken at the very best test point, possibly for a few seconds in time, they are not realistic nor do they conform to test parameters, it is BS.

Notice how little info is in this certificate.....notice the SEER and HSPF numbers, not near seer 38 or hspf 15 as in the advertisement. If the certificate numbers below are real, it is an efficient unit. Looked for some government or other agency which provided a comparison with other minisplits, I did not find any.




Notice how much info is in this.....also note how your COP and other numbers can vary, it all depends where you pick you data from...

 

[pembol]

What does w/w stand for in the ? Bet that is the average COP, not a big deal, a high efficiency Fujitsu can bet that.

"Seasonal rating of up to 38 SEER cooling and 15 HSPF heating"... "up to" is not the same thing as a SEER and HSPF stated in a certificate. Those "up to" numbers are inflated, are taken at the very best test point, possibly for a few seconds in time, they are not realistic nor do they conform to test parameters, it is BS.

Notice how little info is in this certificate.....notice the SEER and HSPF numbers, not near seer 38 or hspf 15 as in the advertisement. If the certificate numbers below are real, it is an efficient unit. Looked for some government or other agency which provided a comparison with other minisplits, I did not find any.




Notice how much info is in this.....also note how your COP and other numbers can vary, it all depends where you pick you data from...

I am pretty sure W/W is watts of hear per watt of electricity, or COP. I have no idea if this particular unit, which is a relabeled Gree Saphire, actually meets the specs shown in their spread sheet, but if they do then they are doing as well as Mitsubishi or Fujitsu.

For comparison, here is the heating performance of the 12k unit to match the spec sheet above, it seems that they match the performance all the way down to -22F and the COP is higher. Albeit this is not a super cheap unit, the 24K is still $2000.




Edit to add, here is the neep page for the 12k unit, not quite as impressive as what they claim above, but still pretty reasonable.

ASHP

ashp.neep.org

 

[pcmeiners]

After comparing the Gree certificate below (posted by Pembol) to other very efficient minisplit certs the COP numbers are great, actually unbelievable, perhaps
Gree is using new technology; the SEER and HSPF do not appear to be in sync with the COP numbers, they should be much higher.
A few months back I looked for a sapphire certificate with extended data, could not find one, thanks for posting. It is a shame no agency consistently tests minisplits, I could not find anything other than opinions, no lab testing.


"⁺AHRI certified and verified product information. Rated capacity information is certified and verified by AHRI, input power is manufacturer reported and COP is calculated. Source: ahridirectory.org"

Last I looked a few months back AHRI verified and questioned (1) certificate out of thousands since it's start. Extremely poor track record considering it works on the honor system.


GREE Sapphire certificate

Central Air Conditioning Heat Pump (HP)

Singlezone Non-Ducted, Wall Placement

AHRI Cert #⁺: 214387779

Outdoor Unit Model #⁺: SAP12HP230V1AO

Indoor Model #⁺: SAP12HP230V1AH*

Maximum Heating Capacity (Btu/h) @5℉: 13,000

Rated Heating Capacity (Btu/h) @47℉⁺: 12,200

Rated Cooling Capacity (Btu/h) @95℉⁺: 12,000

Information Tables

Federal Tax Credit Eligibility North
ENERGY STAR V5.0
Brand	GREE
Series	Sapphire
Ducting Configuration	Singlezone Non-Ducted, Wall Placement
AHRI Certificate #⁺	214387779
Outdoor Unit Model #⁺	SAP12HP230V1AO
Indoor Model #⁺	SAP12HP230V1AH*
Indoor Unit Type⁺	Mini-Splits
Furnace Model⁺ #
EER⁺
SEER⁺
HSPF (Region IV)⁺
EER2⁺	14
SEER2⁺	24
HSPF2 (Region IV)⁺	9
HSPF2 (Region V)	8
ENERGY STAR V6.1
ENERGY STAR V6.1 Cold Climate
Federal Tax Credit Eligibility South
Capacity Maintenance (Rated 17°F/Rated 47°F)	66%
Capacity Maintenance (Rated 5°F/Rated 47°F)	106%
Capacity Maintenance (Max 5°F/Rated 47°F)	106%
Variable Capacity
Integration
Connectivity
Operational Diagnostics
Refrigerant	R-410A
Sold In⁺	USA, Canada

Performance Specs

Heating / Cooling	Outdoor Dry Bulb	Indoor Dry Bulb	Unit	Min	Rated⁺	Max
Cooling	95℉	80℉	Btu/h⁺	2,900	12,000	15,354
kW	0.08	0.86	1.5
COP	10.62	4.09	3
Cooling	82℉	80℉	Btu/h⁺	5,300	-	15,695
kW	0.28	-	1.35
COP	5.55	-	3.41
Heating	47℉	70℉	Btu/h⁺	3,700	12,200	16,000
kW	0.2	0.94	1.6
COP	5.42	3.8	2.93
Heating	17℉	70℉	Btu/h⁺	2,800	8,100	15,000
kW	0.19	0.83	1.85
COP	4.32	2.86	2.38
Heating	5℉	70℉	Btu/h⁺	2,600	13,000	13,000
kW	0.18	1.99	1.99
COP	4.23	1.91	1.91
Heating	-5℉	70℉	Btu/h⁺	2,600	-	13,000
kW	0.18	-	1.99
COP	4.23	-	1.91

 

[giddygoat]

New Mini Split Refrigerant 2025​

As of 2024, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has mandated a phase-out of R-410A refrigerant in residential HVAC systems, effective January 1, 2025. To comply with this regulation, manufacturers are transitioning to new refrigerants with lower global warming potential (GWP). Here are some key findings:

• R-454B: This A2L refrigerant is widely adopted by manufacturers, including Mitsubishi Electric Trane HVAC US, as the new industry standard for 2025. It offers improved efficiency, reliability, and safety features.
• R-32: Another A2L refrigerant, R-32 is also being used by some manufacturers, such as Daikin, in their mini-split systems.
• Availability: As of 2024, R-454B and R-32 mini-split systems are available, although the selection may be limited compared to R-410A units. Expect more options to emerge as the 2025 deadline approaches.
• Compatibility: When upgrading or replacing mini-split systems, ensure that the new refrigerant is compatible with your existing equipment. Some manufacturers may offer conversion kits or require separate outdoor units.
• Service and Training: As new refrigerants become more widespread, technicians will need training and access to the necessary equipment to service and install these systems.

Key Takeaways​

1. R-454B and R-32 are the primary new refrigerants for 2025 mini-split systems.
2. Manufacturers are transitioning away from R-410A, with some offering conversion kits or separate outdoor units.
3. Expect more options to emerge as the 2025 deadline approaches.
4. Ensure compatibility and proper training for technicians when upgrading or replacing mini-split systems.

Recommendation​

When selecting a new mini-split system for 2025, look for models using R-454B or R-32 refrigerants. Consult with a qualified HVAC professional to ensure compatibility with your existing equipment and to discuss the best options for your specific needs.

 

[pembol]

After comparing the Gree certificate below (posted by Pembol) to other very efficient minisplit certs the COP numbers are great, actually unbelievable, perhaps
Gree is using new technology; the SEER and HSPF do not appear to be in sync with the COP numbers, they should be much higher.
A few months back I looked for a sapphire certificate with extended data, could not find one, thanks for posting. It is a shame no agency consistently tests minisplits, I could not find anything other than opinions, no lab testing.


"⁺AHRI certified and verified product information. Rated capacity information is certified and verified by AHRI, input power is manufacturer reported and COP is calculated. Source: ahridirectory.org"

Last I looked a few months back AHRI verified and questioned (1) certificate out of thousands since it's start. Extremely poor track record considering it works on the honor system.


GREE Sapphire certificate

Central Air Conditioning Heat Pump (HP)

Singlezone Non-Ducted, Wall Placement

AHRI Cert #⁺: 214387779

Outdoor Unit Model #⁺: SAP12HP230V1AO

Indoor Model #⁺: SAP12HP230V1AH*

Maximum Heating Capacity (Btu/h) @5℉: 13,000

Rated Heating Capacity (Btu/h) @47℉⁺: 12,200

Rated Cooling Capacity (Btu/h) @95℉⁺: 12,000

Information Tables

ENERGY STAR V5.0
Federal Tax Credit Eligibility North
Brand	GREE
Series	Sapphire
Ducting Configuration	Singlezone Non-Ducted, Wall Placement
AHRI Certificate #⁺	214387779
Outdoor Unit Model #⁺	SAP12HP230V1AO
Indoor Model #⁺	SAP12HP230V1AH*
Indoor Unit Type⁺	Mini-Splits
Furnace Model⁺ #
EER⁺
SEER⁺
HSPF (Region IV)⁺
EER2⁺	14
SEER2⁺	24
HSPF2 (Region IV)⁺	9
HSPF2 (Region V)	8
ENERGY STAR V6.1
ENERGY STAR V6.1 Cold Climate
Federal Tax Credit Eligibility South
Capacity Maintenance (Rated 17°F/Rated 47°F)	66%
Capacity Maintenance (Rated 5°F/Rated 47°F)	106%
Capacity Maintenance (Max 5°F/Rated 47°F)	106%
Variable Capacity
Integration
Connectivity
Operational Diagnostics
Refrigerant	R-410A
Sold In⁺	USA, Canada

Performance Specs

Heating / Cooling	Outdoor Dry Bulb	Indoor Dry Bulb	Unit	Min	Rated⁺	Max
Cooling	95℉	80℉	Btu/h⁺	2,900	12,000	15,354
kW	0.08	0.86	1.5
COP	10.62	4.09	3
Cooling	82℉	80℉	Btu/h⁺	5,300	-	15,695
kW	0.28	-	1.35
COP	5.55	-	3.41
Heating	47℉	70℉	Btu/h⁺	3,700	12,200	16,000
kW	0.2	0.94	1.6
COP	5.42	3.8	2.93
Heating	17℉	70℉	Btu/h⁺	2,800	8,100	15,000
kW	0.19	0.83	1.85
COP	4.32	2.86	2.38
Heating	5℉	70℉	Btu/h⁺	2,600	13,000	13,000
kW	0.18	1.99	1.99
COP	4.23	1.91	1.91
Heating	-5℉	70℉	Btu/h⁺	2,600	-	13,000
kW	0.18	-	1.99
COP	4.23	-	1.91

It looks to me that they are gaming their COP numbers by reporting numbers while running at minimum output (where the COP is 4-5). That said there are reports from the field that these units do throttle back to their minimum output once they have reached the setpoint and just run continuously, drawing 180W - which is pretty cool.


So far, this is the leading contender for my application.

 

[pcmeiners]

I want to see more proof of Gree's claims, skeptical at this point. If true Gree must be may be using newer technology developed for the next generation refrigerants.
I wish there was an agency with integrity to test new minisplits coming into market, It has been the wild west in the HVAC industry for too long, unfair to the consumer and honest manufacturers.

"That said there are reports from the field that these units do throttle back to their minimum output once they have reached the set point"

Basically ALL efficient inverter mini splits do this via the inverter's control programing

From the AHRI website........

"Verify Certificate​

The Verify Certificate feature is to confirm the authenticity of the certificate and the ratings listed on a previously printed certificate. Certificates printed after July 30, 2009 from the AHRI Directory Website can be verified through this feature."

Translated.....So AHHRI checks that the certificate information comes from the manufacturer of the product. and that the data matches what the manufacturer provided on previous certificates. Basically AHRI make a phone call or letter to the certificate producer and that is all it does, it does not test and verify a certificate's data claims..........it is funded by the industry to support the industry, with no checks and balances or government agency over seeing it.

Mis-attributed to W.C. Fields but appropriate

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull ****."

That is what many AHRI certificates are about.

 

[American Locomotive]

After comparing the Gree certificate below (posted by Pembol) to other very efficient minisplit certs the COP numbers are great, actually unbelievable, perhaps
Gree is using new technology; the SEER and HSPF do not appear to be in sync with the COP numbers, they should be much higher.
A few months back I looked for a sapphire certificate with extended data, could not find one, thanks for posting. It is a shame no agency consistently tests minisplits, I could not find anything other than opinions, no lab testing.

I think the more important part is to look at the COP numbers at the "rated" and "max" regions. If you ignore the crazy minimum cooling COP at 95 degrees, the rest of the COP numbers are directly inline with the comparable ~12k BTU class Mitsubishi unit. https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product/25895/7/25000/95/7500/0///0 , actually for the most part the Gree COPs a bit worse than the Mitsubishi.

I will say the Gree has better low temperature, low output heating COP, but I think a lot of that is because they're using a 1/2 as powerful pan heater that comes on at a lower temperature. Which to be fair, good on them for recognizing that at low outputs the pan heater is a (relatively) big draw.

I don't have any proof of this, but I think Gree (and other Chinese manufacturers) developed weird very low output cooling (and heating) modes specifically to game the SEER testing. Notice the minimum cooling BTU for the Gree at 95°F ambient is significantly lower than the minimum at 82°F? When you look at the equivalent Mitsubishi, the 82 and 95 degree minimum capacities are about the same. You see some other funniness with the numbers Gree chose for the heating ratings as well.

The SEER2/EER2 testing seemed to have "closed" that low-output-high-efficiency loop hole. Almost all of the crazy SEER Chinese mini-splits (the ones with 38+ SEER) had their efficiency ratings absolutely tank when SEER2/EER came out. Yet on the other hand, almost all of Mitsubishi minisplits have the same, or very close to the same SEER and SEER2 ratings. A few Mitsubishi units actually went slight up when transitioning to SEER2.

 

[pcmeiners]

With Fujitsu and Mitsubishi the data in the certificates are true for the most part as I have seen a couple thorough scientific comparison tests between their efficient systems; actual testing, not hearsay or opinions. Agree, Gree's extreme efficiency numbers do not match up with some of the data provided, but eventually the claims will be scrutinized.
.

" in a high-efficiency mini split, the drain pan heater is not always on; it typically only activates when necessary, usually when there is a risk of ice buildup in the outdoor unit, like during very cold weather, to prevent water from freezing and damaging the system."

Pan heaters are only going to use the minimum amount of power (at 1/2 or at full power) to melt ice buildup on efficient minisplits. My Fujitsu units have a sensor which controls the on/off of the pan heater. If a test of 10 different minisplits occurred, on the same day, same temperature they all will use approximately the same amount of power to melt the same amount of ice.

"The SEER2/EER2 testing seemed to have "closed" that low-output-high-efficiency loop hole. Almost all of the crazy SEER Chinese mini-splits (the ones with 38+ SEER) had their efficiency ratings absolutely tank when SEER2/EER came out. Yet on the other hand, almost all of Mitsubishi minisplits have the same, or very close to the same SEER and SEER2 ratings."

Yes I saw the same thing. Mitsubishi and Fujitsu's efficiency numbers did not change much with the inception of SEER2 and HSPF2, unlike many other manufacturers.

I will keep saying it.... there is little honest testing/data out there, it is controlled by the industry, benefiting the manufacturers.

 

[pembol]

To get back to the original point - it seems that the Gree Saphire (aka Blue Ridge Ultra Heat) is the leading contender by a large margin.

I don't know how reliable their self reported performance specs are, but they do seem to be better than the self reported performance specs from other manufacturers. Reading reviews, people are generally very pleased with the performance, albeit there seem to be some firmware issues with some of the earlier models.

I am still open to other suggestions...

 

[pcmeiners]

Sound Rating, Indoor =34 / 54 Decibels, sound a bit high, though I found no complaints.

"Blueridge models are not listed on the NEEP Cold Climate Air Source Heat Pump List. This is a serious issue for anyone that is considering a state or federal rebate. I overlooked this and was not able to get the $800 income rebate for the client."

Check this before buying !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Read the warranty.... the manufacturer does not stipulated a "pro" must install it. Be aware warranties are almost useless, as it can take a long time to get warranty parts. Some times the manufacturer stipulates a "pro" needs to diagnose it before a part is sent out (at a fee); the warranty does not state any diagnosis stipulations.

 

[pcmeiners]

Pembol let us us know if you get this unit.

 

[justinjoyal]

I've been selling/installing the Gree Sapphire for several years now, it's one of our most popular model.

It's a great system. We've had very few problems with it and the heat output at colder temperatures is great (which is why it is so popular here in Quebec.)

 

[SusKatCas]

Thanks to all you that contributed, this thread is an excellent discussion.

 

[pembol]

I've been selling/installing the Gree Sapphire for several years now, it's one of our most popular model.

It's a great system. We've had very few problems with it and the heat output at colder temperatures is great (which is why it is so popular here in Quebec.)

One thing I am reading about these is that you can't set the thermostat below 61F, do you know if that is accurate? It could be a deal breaker.

 

[ericm]

One thing I am reading about these is that you can't set the thermostat below 61F, do you know if that is accurate? It could be a deal breaker.

That's pretty typical. I don't know why. Maybe so people aren't too disappointed when they set back the thermostat really low and then turn it up expecting it to heat up the space quickly.

Some units have a freeze protection setting at around 46 degrees.

 

[pcmeiners]

From the Gree Sapphire manual......

"Set temperature range from remote controller:

16 ~ 30℃(61- 86℉). Set temperature range from

remote controller under HEAT mode: 8~30℃ (46-86℉ ) "

If you plan on working in the garage often 60° F is the lowest I would set the temperature at for set back . 50° if you will be in the garage infrequently. If you turn it back too far it will not heat up super fast, as all contents and the building materials will absorb a lot of heat.


Also noted the efficiency specs for the Sapphire was for R32, which are supposed to be higher then for R410a

It is good Mitsubishi and Fujitsu are getting competition in the efficiency realm.

 

[pembol]

On closer reading there is a 'freeze guard' or 'energy save' mode that sets the heat to 8C/46F, which would be perfect for my application. I am still a few months away from ordering (need insulation and final electrical inspection first), but I think this is the one.

 

[ericm]

Be sure to come back and let us know how it went/is going.

Will you be doing the commissioning yourself or have an HVAC tech do it?

 

[pcmeiners]

Keep an eye open for the R32 models, inherently more efficient then 410a, might be even worth waiting for.

 

[pembol]

Be sure to come back and let us know how it went/is going.

Will you be doing the commissioning yourself or have an HVAC tech do it?

I plan on doing the commissioning - it doesn't seem particularly complicated.

 

[SusKatCas]

Keep an eye open for the R32 models, inherently more efficient then 410a, might be even worth waiting for.

Any thoughts on when the R32 systems might show up? Months? Years?

(I thought Erie was the only town in PA...)

Thank you, Alan

 

[pcmeiners]

The manufacturers are allowed to use all their stock of R410a and all stock of 410a machines so it will be some time before quantities of R32 machines hit the market.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I've been selling/installing the Gree Sapphire for several years now, it's one of our most popular model.

It's a great system. We've had very few problems with it and the heat output at colder temperatures is great (which is why it is so popular here in Quebec.)

Thanks, that's good information. So often it's hard to find out how well a product works from people who have actual experience with them.

 

[justinjoyal]

On closer reading there is a 'freeze guard' or 'energy save' mode that sets the heat to 8C/46F, which would be perfect for my application. I am still a few months away from ordering (need insulation and final electrical inspection first), but I think this is the one.

Yes exactly.

The lowest "regular" setting in Heat mode is 61 I believe, but the freeze protection mode sets the system at 46.

People often use that mode for their garage, cabin, etc.

 

[Kaizen]

I put in a 3 head 32k btu LG unit in my house; two 24k and one 12k heads. I wanted the mitsubishi hyper heat but it was covid so went with the LG. I also installed a sense electric panel monitor to try and gauge the cost of things esp my minisplits vs running my oil furnace. While it will easily work below freezing, I can hear it ramping up a lot like a plane about to take off. If I'm going to have a few days of 40/32 I will run the minisplits. Its hard to gauge the overall cost when running but when its below freezing the sense monitor shows about 4k watts vs 2k for 40s and above. I know you mentioned direct to customer and need to point out that you need to check out their warrentee requirements. LG's says it has to be installed by a licensed installer to be covered. As the cost of installation was more then the entire system I did it myself. So far so good. In a garage the dry mode is really what I would like. If we get those everglade like sticky weeks but in the 80s I can just run the dry mode and feel just fine.

 

[lesliewalker]

It depends on the size you need. Brands like Mitsubishi and Fujitsu have great cold climate capacity but are harder to get DTC. I know brands like Pioneer, Senville, Zone Air (if you want a DIY option) are some of the few remaining that sell DTC. I think that business model is rare in the HVAC industry.
I have installed a few Senville units and one Zone Air DIY unit and i can say both were high quality and performed fine in the winter here which gets down to about 0-10 F. But have not had experience colder than that. There are also almost always hyper heat versions which can heat down to lower temps if you search around

 

[pembol]

Seeing this old thread has been brought back to the top - I can report back. I did install the Blueridge/gree sapphire and now have had a full winter and summer of operation. Install was very straightforward as a DIY. The system has run really well, and does seem to be meeting the promised efficiency and has been very comfortable. For a 1000 sq ft insulated garage the highest daily consumption was 16kWh with lows around 0F and highs in the teens. The total January energy consumption was 141 kWh, or a little over 4kWh a day to maintain 46F with occasional bump ups to 66F when I am working out there. In summer I only turn on the AC when I am working out there, but it is about 9kWh for a day of cooling with a high near ~95F.

When you change the temperature it jumps up to about 2kW for half an hour or so, then ramps down to 300 - 400W to maintain temp. It is all but silent when it throttles back.

My only complaint/regret is that I used a wall mount bracket to mount it to a wood framed wall, and that does transmit some vibration through the wall, particularly on start up. It is on my list to use some vibration isolators on the mounting bolts.

 

[manwithtools]

Brands like Mitsubishi and Fujitsu have great cold climate capacity but are harder to get DTC.

Not hard to get DTC at all. There are many online retailers to buy from and their prices are quite competitive.