The VISES of Garage Journal

[Outlawmws]

Is there a post somewhere in here that could offer guidance? Such as reasonable price per weight (Jaw opening) for general use? Or should I just buy something new?

None of those valuation "equations" work, if they ever did. Value is supply, demand and how deep are one's pockets before there is pain.

There are deals out there (I passed on toe yesterday at an estate sale a couple of reeds, cheap, but not enough to open my wallet and I'm not hunting for a user. You have to work at it, and know what is a deal vs Eprey pricing.

Before anything you need to decide what you are doing with the vise or vises. I have a LOT of users depending on what I'm doing, but what works for me won't work the same for others.

My most used vise is, and has been for decades, a C. Parker 974 bench vise from probably the 40's. but drill press vises, WorkMates, smaller ones for smaller work... a "fabrication" vise on my welding bench - etc...

So tell us about you: What do you do in the shop/garage, what might you do later?

 

[colmal]

At least there is something good about Christmas, people tend not to buy/spend as much on there there passions/hobbys or are down at the beach.

Put a minimum bid on this, cause why not it was cheapest I've seen for a while, in good nick and I only have 4 3''.

Woke up just now and I won the auction.

I have a bit more room after giving a 6" Dawn as a Christmas gift and selling a 4" Dawn to my neighbour. Probably doing this wrong thou, if I'm lucky I'll make a profit of $3 on the neighbours one (not including 6 hours labour) and had bought the 6" Dawn new, for $350 AUD just over a year ago. Did get the pleasure of bringing it up to my standards, repainted and deburred the casting marks on it. My most expensive gift ever, and full disclosure, really like the older stuff, this was a cheaper overseas version, not the high end Aussie made vices.

 

[micahd1997]

Hi guys,
This thread makes my head hurt! I would like to upgrade my garage with a decent mechanics vice. However, the collectability and the propensity for sellers to ask way too much for them used and me not being all that knowledgable puts me in a precarious spot. This must have been discussed somewhere in the 2328 pages, but the search function does no good.

I am getting the sense this is a matter of wait and see, how much cash do you have in your pocket and are willing to part with. I don't want to do something stupid though.

Is there a post somewhere in here that could offer guidance? Such as reasonable price per weight (Jaw opening) for general use? Or should I just buy something new?

Much Thanks,
Rick

Howdy, Rick,

I can relate to and generally agree with your frustration, though surprisingly the average cost of an older vise has decreased significantly in the past three years with the overall market.

Despite the higher prices of older vises, I would still hands-down recommend an old vise over almost any new one. They will last you a lot longer (proven by the fact that they even still exist) and be cheaper in the long run.

Pricing varies for different sizes/brands, but as long as you’re looking for something in the 3”-5” jaw range in good condition, reasonable market price is anywhere between $100-$250. The larger/better condition the vise, the more expensive usually. The issue is that your average boutique price gougers and sentimental-yet-cash-hungry nephews consider anything old to be of PRICELESS value simply because, “It’s an antique”. This mindset has dominated the market, and because of it, you’ll see people post a 4” vise for sale on Facebook Marketplace for $300 that looks like it was shot out of a howitzer, and the description will read, “Antique Vice, no lowballs, excellent condition antique, they don’t make them like they used to!”. Anyway, that’s my short rant for the day.

Could you give more info on your location and what exactly you’re looking for size-wise?

 

[colmal]

Howdy, Rick,

I can relate to and generally agree with your frustration, though surprisingly the average cost of an older vise has decreased significantly in the past three years with the overall market.

Despite the higher prices of older vises, I would still hands-down recommend an old vise over almost any new one. They will last you a lot longer (proven by the fact that they even still exist) and be cheaper in the long run.

Pricing varies for different sizes/brands, but as long as you’re looking for something in the 3”-5” jaw range in good condition, reasonable market price is anywhere between $100-$250. The larger/better condition the vise, the more expensive usually. The issue is that your average boutique price gougers and sentimental-yet-cash-hungry nephews consider anything old to be of PRICELESS value simply because, “It’s an antique”. This mindset has dominated the market, and because of it, you’ll see people post a 4” vise for sale on Facebook Marketplace for $300 that looks like it was shot out of a howitzer, and the description will read, “Antique Vice, no lowballs, excellent condition antique, they don’t make them like they used to!”. Anyway, that’s my short rant for the day.

Could you give more info on your location and what exactly you’re looking for size-wise?

My post above agreed with this, the older stuff is just better, I won't be giving my 6' Dawn SQ (193/40's) to anyone-

 

[RickP330]

So tell us about you: What do you do in the shop/garage, what might you do later?

Of course, so sorry. How rude of me!
Consider me a born again mechanic. I'm 56 and never professionally worked on cars, but did my entire life. Professionally I am a mechanical engineer. I went through a bunch of changes during those time and managed to bring most of the tools along with me but sadly not everything made it. Right now I am studying for my masters so most projects have been on hold for a few years. I have two classes left after this current one and once I graduate I will embark on a new automotive project if I don't professionally get wrapped up in something right away.

I have a decent tool box, a miller mig welder and spot welder... Quincy 80 gallon vertical compressor.... so not a newbie by most accounts.

So for the next year and a half or so I am retooling up my kit in the meantime. If you are really interested I have posted about those endeavors here. So this little 3.5" vice made it with me. I cleaned that up a while back and mounted to to a board. I am crunched for space so I store this in my sand blast cabinet and clamp it to my bench when I need it. Not exactly sure where it came from or what it is but it works. It's clear I am going to need something with a little more guts and more sturdily mounted. So I'm on the hunt now....
RP

 

[Outlawmws]

OK that's a start -what you have there is an exposed screw homeowners vise. Probably not over 12 lbs or so, and limited jaw opening, despite wider jaws than its size generally needs.

Next step up for a bench vise is a Mechanic's vise, its slide with be a stamped steel inverted U that protects the main screw, and probably 10-20 lbs heavier.

Up from that bench vise is a Machinists vise and all the variants; All have a machined and close fitting slide. some mfg's made this a closer fit than others. Reed, and Athol/Starrett come to mind.

The variants can include - but are not limited to:

Filers, vises - tall steeply angled jaws to provide clearance for the files
Pattern makers vises - Similar to the filers vise but with a longer slide and screw to accommodate large chunks of wood.
Combination vises, -taller jaw towers that have removable pipe jaw under the standard vise jaws
and Standard Machinists, vises - by far the most common.

All can be found with a fixed or swivel static jaw.

All can be found with jaw sizes from well under 2" (jeweler's/watchmakers vises), to 9" wide, and corresponding jaw openings.


What are you planing to hold in them and for what purpose will determine what you can narrow your search to. I could get by with a 3" width jaw for 80-90 % of the work I do. it's been very rare that my 4" was not big enough.

Some here won't look at less than 5 or 6 " jaw widths. Again this fits their work.

So first narrow what you need and balance it against where it will go. The bigger vises get heavy very fast, my main Parker is 59 lbs, not killer, but I'm not going to move it very often either.. I have a 4-1/2" C. Parker 974-1/2, and its 76 lbs. 17 lbs more for 1/2". That difference is more than your current vise weighs.

 

[micahd1997]

OK that's a start -what you have there is an exposed screw homeowners vise. Probably not over 12 lbs or so, and limited jaw opening, despite wider jaws than its size generally needs.

Next step up for a bench vise is a Mechanic's vise, its slide with be a stamped steel inverted U that protects the main screw, and probably 10-20 lbs heavier.

Up from that doe a bench vise is a Machinists vise and all the variants; All have a machined and close fitting slide. some mfg's made this a closer fit than others. Reed, and Athol/Starrett come to mind.

The variants can include - but are not limited to:

Filers, vises - tall steeply angled jaws to provide clearance for the files
Pattern makers vises - Similar to the filers vise but with a longer slide and screw to accommodate large chunks of wood.
Combination vises, -taller jaw towers that have removable pipe jaw under the standard vise jaws
and Standard Machinists, vises - by far the most common.

All can be found with a fixed or swivel static jaw.

All can be found with jaw sizes from well under 2" (jeweler's/watchmakers vises), to 9" wide, and corresponding jaw openings.


What are you planing to hold in them and for what purpose will determine what you can narrow your search to. I could get by with a 3" width jaw for 80-90 % of the work I do. it's been very rare that my 4" was not big enough.

Some here won't look at less than 5 or 6 " jaw widths. Again this fits their work.

So first narrow what you need and balance it against where it will go. The bigger vises get heavy very fast, my main Parker is 59 lbs, not killer, but I'm not going to move it very often either.. I have a 4-1/2" C. Parker 974-1/2, and its 76 lbs. 17 lbs more for 1/2". That difference is more than your current vise weighs.

Very well said

 

[Beerhippie]

If you're looking for an inexpensive but well made vise, you could do a lot worse than this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/335355178624

$60 w/free shipping--it's almost a free vise plus shipping.



There are other sizes available. They do not come with the copper jaw cover nor stand.

 

[tool_scrounge]

Of course, so sorry. How rude of me!
Consider me a born again mechanic. I'm 56 and never professionally worked on cars, but did my entire life. Professionally I am a mechanical engineer. I went through a bunch of changes during those time and managed to bring most of the tools along with me but sadly not everything made it. Right now I am studying for my masters so most projects have been on hold for a few years. I have two classes left after this current one and once I graduate I will embark on a new automotive project if I don't professionally get wrapped up in something right away.

I have a decent tool box, a miller mig welder and spot welder... Quincy 80 gallon vertical compressor.... so not a newbie by most accounts.

So for the next year and a half or so I am retooling up my kit in the meantime. If you are really interested I have posted about those endeavors here. So this little 3.5" vice made it with me. I cleaned that up a while back and mounted to to a board. I am crunched for space so I store this in my sand blast cabinet and clamp it to my bench when I need it. Not exactly sure where it came from or what it is but it works. It's clear I am going to need something with a little more guts and more sturdily mounted. So I'm on the hunt now....
RP

In general, the sweet spot for vintage US made vises that have good availability at reasonable prices is vises up to 4.5” jaw width. Larger sizes are not as available and tend to go for higher prices. Two brands that tend to have reasonable availability at lower cost is Columbian and Morgan (or later Morgan Milwaukee) - good vises but not revered by collectors.

 

[bvango]

First timer here - got 3 vises today and am
Loving them! Had some help from @wrenchr and thanks for all the advice. Without further ado here is the first one a Reed 1C - I think it’s super nice and even has a cool number plaque on it. To me it looks very barley used - they said original paint

 

[bvango]

The second pick up was a pair of these old Craftsman - would love any info people have. One of them needs a jaw pad - it has a chip out of the bottom of one other than that these are super clean and tight.

 

[wrenchr]

That Reed 1C is very nice.

 

[RickP330]

OK that's a start -what you have there is an exposed screw homeowners vise. Probably not over 12 lbs or so, and limited jaw opening, despite wider jaws than its size generally needs.
...

So first narrow what you need and balance it against where it will go. The bigger vises get heavy very fast, my main Parker is 59 lbs, not killer, but I'm not going to move it very often either.. I have a 4-1/2" C. Parker 974-1/2, and its 76 lbs. 17 lbs more for 1/2". That difference is more than your current vise weighs.

Thank you,
The 4" size is okay but I suppose I want something I don't mind going to town on with a Oxy/acetylene torch and a 5 lb sledge....

If you're looking for an inexpensive but well made vise, you could do a lot worse than this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/335355178624

$60 w/free shipping--it's almost a free vise plus shipping.

It's gone already

 

[FourthQuarter]

Search for "You ****" to find price floor.

Buy a new one and you'll be blocked from vise related threads.

Rules of thumb are tough but if you need one, like her looks and think she'll perform, don't fuss. Buy it.

 

[bvango]

I also got this one - not for sure what it is I think prentis? Any know of it or is interested?

 

[RTM]

I suppose I want something I don't mind going to town on with a Oxy/acetylene torch and a 5 lb sledge

If you plan on beating in it, you probably want a blacksmiths leg vise, made to transfer the impact to the floor. I suspect whacking on most vintage vises with a 5lb sledge would be frowned upon, for fear of breaking them

 

[aonapa]

51855 is the number..... From what I have gathered on the big thread with the catalogs, which is really nice and that's awesome that the person did that, I'm guessing from the 40s? I would love some insight from somebody who knows vises if possible. Thank y'all so much!

 

[Shiftless]

First timer here - got 3 vises today and am Loving them!

Welcome to GJ and let me just say that you scored a couple of vises that many of us have spent years tracking down. The Reed C series of vises is certainly among the best and that Craftsman fifty one ninety something is an equally well built and more rare to find vise. The numbers on the nose are pretty banged up so I can’t read them but I recognize the shape of the vise. It was made for Sears by Rock Island vise company about 75 years ago. How wide are the jaws? With that info, I can tell you the model number.
(I have 3 from that series)

 

[Lesserstore]

51855 is the number..... From what I have gathered on the big thread with the catalogs, which is really nice and that's awesome that the person did that, I'm guessing from the 40s? I would love some insight from somebody who knows vises if possible. Thank y'all so much!

If it's that model number, 2000s. But it might be 51865, an older but similar model.
2004-05 catalog:


1988 catalog for the 51865:

 

[bvango]

Welcome to GJ and let me just say that you scored a couple of vises that many of us have spent years tracking down. The Reed C series of vises is certainly among the best and that Craftsman fifty one ninety something is an equally well built and more rare to find vise. The numbers on the nose are pretty banged up so I can’t read them but I recognize the shape of the vise. It was made for Sears by Rock Island vise company about 75 years ago. How wide are the jaws? With that info, I can tell you the model number.
(I have 3 from that series)

Thank you @Shiftless im excited to have the collection going! i believe they are 4 inch jaws but i will double check when i can in a bit. It looks like the nose numbers were double stamped almost like an error.

I believe it says model - AD 05196 does that seem right?

 

[RickP330]

Prentiss Vise #50. $50 around the block from me. Yea or nea?
RP

PS It looks like it is missing the base? I could have the heavy shop mill a 1" steel plate to mount and swivel it on. I think I have enough favors stored up in that favor bank....

 

[aonapa]

If it's that model number, 2000s. But it might be 51865, an older but similar model.
2004-05 catalog:

I think it's 51855. Man some of these vises have been around for 70+ years. This is the first time I've really looked into the subject, but I didn't really expect to find everything I did, it's been eye opening.

 

[micahd1997]

Prentiss Vise #50. $50 around the block from me. Yea or nea?
RP

PS It looks like it is missing the base? I could have the heavy shop mill a 1" steel plate to mount and swivel it on. I think I have enough favors stored up in that favor bank....

At 3¼” jaws, missing the rear foot, replaced handle balls, and $50, I’d personally recommend passing (primarily because of the broken foot).

Forgive me if I’m over-explaining or misunderstanding, but this vise never came with a swivel base. Unlike vises of today (almost all swivel bases to my knowledge), vises of older eras could be purchased in either stationary models (ex. the Prentiss #50 that you posted a picture of, meant to be mounted solidly to a workbench via three or four stationary feet) OR in the swivel base model.

If you’re truly looking for a “beater” vise, this one will do, but unless a third foot is made and re-attached to the back, any work in the vise will place full strain on (currently) only two feet instead of three (increasing the likelihood of other breaks in the future). If this vise had all three feet, I would say $50 is very reasonable.

 

[RickP330]

At 3¼” jaws, missing the rear foot, replaced handle balls, and $50, I’d personally recommend passing (primarily because of the broken foot).

Forgive me if I’m over-explaining or misunderstanding, but this vise never came with a swivel base. Unlike vises of today (almost all swivel bases to my knowledge), vises of older eras could be purchased in either stationary models (ex. the Prentiss #50 that you posted a picture of, meant to be mounted solidly to a workbench via three or four stationary feet) OR in the swivel base model.

If you’re truly looking for a “beater” vise, this one will do, but unless a third foot is made and re-attached to the back, any work in the vise will place full strain on (currently) only two feet instead of three (increasing the likelihood of other breaks in the future). If this vise had all three feet, I would say $50 is very reasonable.

Ah, thank you. No worries - it's my ignorance on the subject. Okay solid mounted and I now see the back foot is snapped off. So it's basically useless. I'll keep looking, although I don't need a swivel option. That missing foot is a bummer. I am glad I asked the group. Thank you very much - I'd have missed that.

RP

 

[micahd1997]

Ah, thank you. No worries - it's my ignorance on the subject. Okay solid mounted and I now see the back foot is snapped off. So it's basically useless. I'll keep looking, although I don't need a swivel option. That missing foot is a bummer. I am glad I asked the group. Thank you very much - I'd have missed that.

RP

Absolutely, Rick, happy to help! Best of luck in finding a vise that works for you, and we’d love to see what you end up with. As one last note, you might try calling any local scrap yards near you and asking if they allow customers to dig around and purchase items per pound. Fewer and fewer allow it these days, but I’ve found probably 5 robust, good-condition, older vises in my local scrap yard in the past several years. Truly, one man’s trash is another man’s treasure, and at $0.40/lb, a 100lb vise in good condition would be a steal at $40!

All the best,

Micah

 

[RickP330]

A blacksmith foot vise $400, now you are talking. LOLOL
You know you guys are a bad influence on me.....
RP

 

[Shiftless]

Thank you @Shiftless im excited to have the collection going! i believe they are 4 inch jaws but i will double check when i can in a bit. It looks like the nose numbers were double stamped almost like an error.

I believe it says model - AD 05196 does that seem right?

Yep!
If it has 4 inch wide jaws, it’s a 5196
You found a GREAT vise.

 

[bvango]

Yep!
If it has 4 inch wide jaws, it’s a 5196
You found a GREAT vise.

@Shiftless
Awesome and I actually found a pair of them both the 5196. Just because I’m curious and love a deal what do those normally go for? I want to see if I did ok. No planning on selling but want to know!

 

[American Iron]

Oldest vise for me so far. Found this old war horse of a vise that's been around. Weekend estate sale find. $10. It's a Columbian Hardware Co of Cleveland Oh. Model 402 1/2. Narrowest jaws I've seen on a vise this big. (2 1/2") It has a swivel pin but looking at the jaw it looks only to slide forward not side to side. I don't see cut outs to pivot right or left. I guess this old vise is approx 100 years old. Action is smooth and it closes tight though the jaw plates need work. Unfortunately the swivel base has a crack underneath. The swivel pin is stuck firm. I can't seem much info on this model of vise. This years summer project. Too cold in winter in my shop..

 

[Outlawmws]

it looks only to slide forward not side to side. I don't see cut outs to pivot right or left.

the 40X series were swivel jaw, just a different tracking method.

Is your jaw welded in place? pics aren't clear enough.

 

[American Iron]

the 40X series were swivel jaw, just a different tracking method.

Is your jaw welded in place? pics aren't clear enough.

Tough to say with so much old paint / dirt. There are gaps where the jaw could swivel. I'm going to have to get it much cleaner to see if the pin or jaw frees up.. There may be a pin pushed into the jaw base but that is still not cleaned off enough to say..

 

[four.cycle]

Columbian at International Tool Catalog Library

the only appearance of the 402½ in any of the material I have is in a 1926 Hardware catalog listing:

 

[American Iron]

Columbian at International Tool Catalog Library

the only appearance of the 402½ in any of the material I have is in a 1926 Hardware catalog listing:

That matches what I have. Still haven't seen a 2 1/2" jaw model before. Thanks for the reference material.

 

[four.cycle]

^ Thank ITCL.
click that little red heart up at the top of the page where it says "donate".

 

[American Iron]

^ Thank ITCL.
click that little red heart up at the top of the page where it says "donate".

Gave a donation Thanks.

 

[Beerhippie]

Tough to say with so much old paint / dirt. There are gaps where the jaw could swivel. I'm going to have to get it much cleaner to see if the pin or jaw frees up.. There may be a pin pushed into the jaw base but that is still not cleaned off enough to say..

Sometime it takes some gentle persuasion to break old, rust-frozen swivel jaws loose:





A 4 lb tin BFH worked.

 

[Outlawmws]

But the pin needs removed first!

 

[Beerhippie]

Fortunately, the pin on my Reed was an old 4-point bolt, honed down to more-or-less fit:



After a few days of soaking with penetrant and a few (maybe ten?) minutes with an impact driver, it came right out:

 

[CRSINMICH]

Columbian's 402½ was in a 1917 Columbian catalog. Interestingly, two catalogs from other companies, one from 1921 and one from 1923, also had Columbian 402½'s but they were solid jaw models

EDIT: To make things a little more interesting here's a cut from another 1923 catalog that shows a Columbian 402½ with a swivel jaw.

 

[j p smith]

Was gifted this vise yesterday by an old friend's family. Proud to be the new caretaker. This morning I will see if I can get the swivel jaw to rotate. Believe it says Prentis, where it is cast it is hard to make out. 7" jaws