Koken or Stahlwille Ratchet

[Zewnten]

Looking to buy a locking flex head ratchet other than my usual matco. I'm trying to decide between 3/8 drive Koken or Stahlwille. Koken has lower tooth count and I work is a lot of confined areas, but I like the metal handle. Koken only makes a 3/8 version of this ratchet were Stahlwille makes the same ratchet in all 3 drive sizes so if I want more I can. Some were saying the flex head pin falls out though on the Stahlwille.

Koken 3774NL | 3/8" Sq. Drive, Flex Head Ratchet

Palmac Tool Company offers the Koken 3774NL | 3/8" Sq. Drive, Flex Head Ratchet to order online with a best Price Guarantee. Fast Shipping Available.

palmac.net

Stahlwille 12261010 Flexible joint fine tooth ratchet 452QR, 300 mm

Square drive 10.0 mm - 3/8" acc. to DIN 3120 - C 10.0, ISO 1174for hand-operated sockets and accessories with square drive as per 3120 - C 10.0, ISO 1174Used throughout

handtools-from-germany.com

 

[drtyler]

Koken.

I have seen same reports regarding Stahlwille, does not inspire confidence.

There have been reports that handtools-from-germany is not a great vendor. I would avoid if possible.

 

[Andres26tnt]

The stahlwille is super nice unfortunately the pivot doesn't last long. They either break or get extremely sloppy over simple use. Mine broke, the pin went out(flying). Haven't tried warranty it unfortunately. They need to redesign with a bolt to be able to adjust it.

I can't recommend the Koken as I haven't used it, if it's anything like a Z 100% get it. Koken needs to update Z line with locking flex heads and knurled handles. Would sell out for sure.

 

[HannibalLecter]

Koken Zeal

 

[nicks78camaro]

Before someone else says it...

Tekton

(kidding)

 

[Steve_P]

The Koken you linked has 24 teeth- a trip back to the 1970s. If that works for you, then ok. Not sure why you'd want to take such a huge step back from a Matco 88.

Gearwrench makes locking 90T ratchets that are almost identical to Matco.

 

[Dave455]

Both have advantages and disadvantages.

Overall, the KoKen are decent. The all metal design is rugged and they are decent value. But as you observe, they are only 24 tooth. I tend to use mine for tasks other than automotive and it’s no issue at all, but in confined areas you may notice the limitations.

I don’t have the long Stahlwille, and the reason is that, much like yourself, I prefer metal handles. But be aware that the back plate on the later / fine tooth ratchets is plastic. Not a fan of that to be honest.

For whatever reason, it seems that European manufacturers still struggle to produce a good quality long flex 3/8 ratchet.

 

[Nobody-named-Olli]

I second that European/German choices are somewhat limited. Given my location, and if it is only between the two ratchets, I’d still get the Stahlwille - simply because of tooth count and the fact that it would be very easy to get it repaired/ get a spare part if needed, as some posts suggest.

I have a non-locking Hazet 3/8” flex head with low (30) tooth count and haven’t had much luck with that either. I had it replaced under warranty before I even used it. Wanted to marginally adjust the tension of the joint, the bolt would just spin free. Since it was a brand new tool, I opted against getting a bolt/ maybe re-threading the hole and the dealer replaced it, no questions. I did inform Hazet about it, they didn’t bother to reply on that. Another time I had a better experience when I reached out to them.


Kind regards,
Olli

 

[gilbo]

Koken

 

[CGarage]

The Koken you linked has 24 teeth- a trip back to the 1970s. If that works for you, then ok. Not sure why you'd want to take such a huge step back from a Matco 88.

Gearwrench makes locking 90T ratchets that are almost identical to Matco.

I really agree with this.

 

[CGarage]

I think that locking flex head ratchets are needed for automotive use, but the Europeans are behind in this area. The Japanese, also.

The best of these designs are from Snap-On and Matco and Gearwrench.

I use my GW 90t locking flex head in 1/4 and 3/8 drive about 80-90% of the time as my go-to ratchets.

This is the first choice for me, despite owning drawers full of Snap-On, Koken, Tone, KTC, Facom, Hazet, Stahlwille, etc ratchets.

 

[VolvoRyan]

Gearwrench makes locking 90T ratchets that are almost identical to Matco.

They look similar, but they're quite different where it matters IMHO. My Matco stuff is front line. I don't even think the GW 90T flex stuff made the cut for junkyard work. Gahbage....

-Ryan

 

[CGarage]

They look similar, but they're quite different where it matters IMHO. My Matco stuff is front line. I don't even think the GW 90T flex stuff made the cut for junkyard work. Gahbage....

-Ryan

The 3/8 and 1/4 ‘locking’ Gearwrench 90T ratchets that I have are very nice and the heads are tight. I understand some have had QC issues with them, but that has not been the case for me.

 

[VolvoRyan]

The 3/8 and 1/4 ‘locking’ Gearwrench 90T ratchets that I have are very nice and the heads are tight. I understand some have had QC issues with them, but that has not been the case for me.

There's actually, like, two eras of crummy builds of these. First, most of us got loose flex joints (two major errors in the design of the joint). Diabolically bad. So bad, there's a life-hack fix for them. Before I winged my 90T's into a forgotten corner of the garage, I attacked the joint with a micrometer. Totally mismatched components in all three drive sizes. Then, it seems GW put out a bunch of these that were fine. More recently, there have been examples where the guts in the ratchet were undersized.

The takeaway is that GW is hit or miss... and has been for ages. Same thing happened with the 120XP ratchets a few years back, I think. Some folks got bad ones. I got good ones and didn't know what the fuss was all about.

Clearly, GW exists solely to make people argue in forums and on social media.

-Ryan

 

[Steve_P]

They look similar, but they're quite different where it matters IMHO. My Matco stuff is front line. I don't even think the GW 90T flex stuff made the cut for junkyard work. Gahbage....

-Ryan

Whoops, edited a bit...

IIRC you had one/some locking flex heads that had side to side play between the head and handle, and therefore the entire line is junk. This gap shouldn't happen, within reason, but it's easily addressed; when you pay 30% of the Matco or Snap On price, you don't always get the same perfection. If you want perfection, you can pay more, or you can address this issue.

My 1/2 GW locking flex also had some side-to-side play in the head. I fixed it with a few shoulder screw shims that I installed and saved $200 over the similar Matco. Yes, I shouldn't have to do this, but I knew it going in based on the Amazon reviews; I was fine addressing it myself for the price difference of $100 vs $300. It took a dollar worth of shims that I had, and 10 minutes of my time to remove all of the play and I saved $200 vs the equivalent Matco ratchet; to me that's a very acceptable sacrifice and it's now a friction fit head that doesn't need the locking feature if I don't want to use it. All of the non-locking flex GW 90T that I have didn't have excessive slop in the head and were a nice friction fit. None of the ~15 GW that I have had any issues besides the locking flex that needed a few shims between the head and handle. To me, that's acceptable for the $$$$ saved vs purchasing an entire Matco ratchet collection.

I have multiple of both GW 90T and Matco 88. They have the same mechanism design; the pawl and gear interchange on 1/4 and 3/8 (I don't have a 1/2 Matco) and work fine. The heads are essentially the same thickness, they use essentially the same locking mechanism, fail at about the same level in the PF destruction tests...

The reality is that the GW 90 is always one of the better performers in the PF tests and they're a bargain for what you get. Selection is the best that I know of that's not from a tool truck. They're available basically everywhere. The reviews on Amazon are excellent. Rebuild kits are available online and are cheap. Currently made in Taiwan.....

The only reason I have the Matco 88s are because of the length selection that GW doesn't have, and I've been able to get them new on Ebay for ~40% off list.

 

[FigN⋅m]

I think that locking flex head ratchets are needed for automotive use, but the Europeans are behind in this area. The Japanese, also.

The best of these designs are from Snap-On and Matco and Gearwrench.

I use my GW 90t locking flex head in 1/4 and 3/8 drive about 80-90% of the time as my go-to ratchets.

This is the first choice for me, despite owning drawers full of Snap-On, Koken, Tone, KTC, Facom, Hazet, Stahlwille, etc ratchets.

Agreed.
I'm quite curious about the pending Icon locking flex heads.
I don't currently have any locking flexies, and have been known
to diy a "lock" for my Tektons. We'll see when they get released...

eta: I have the small Koken Zeal 1/4" ratchet in the Factory Gear box special and it's freakin' awesome

 

[VolvoRyan]

Whoops, edited a bit...

IIRC you had one/some locking flex heads that had side to side play between the head and handle, and therefore the entire line is junk. This gap shouldn't happen, within reason, but it's easily addressed; when you pay 30% of the Matco or Snap On price, you don't always get the same perfection. If you want perfection, you can pay more, or you can address this issue.

Dude, this is the internet. We talk in absolutes here. Kidding....

Reality for me is that I got all three drive sizes. At the time, that was the whole line. All three were borked in the same way. It was $125 set of tools that were woeful. Plus: GW has chunky detents. Matco does not. Very different tools if one has preferences. And we all do.

So. Tool trucks be expensive.... but GW has a cost. I reached out to GW about them, BTW. They told me what I could do with them. Insert into bodily orifice. I just wanted a pretty good 1/4" ratchet. Should have got another Matco. Same price at the time.

So. I'm disingenuous for hating on the whole line. Your post is lacking an equal amount of the real story. HF would sell us both a ratchet to eat crow with.

PF? Who cares? Find me a ratchet that breaks before ASME specs.

-Ryan

 

[VolvoRyan]

Eek. Double post!

 

[65k10]

I have the Ko-Ken locking flex head. It is nicely made, but certainly less capable than a comparable Matco locking flex. As others have said, the tooth count holds it back. The other potential downside depending on use is there are 5 locking positions, 30° forward, straight, 30° back, 60° back, and 90° back. It also is the type that can only be in a locked position. Perhaps unsurprisingly it kind of fell out of use for me after I got a comparable Matco to take its place.

 

[Zewnten]

Bummer. Wanted something different but it looks like I'll be buying another matco. I liked the kokens knurling but I think the low teeth will drive me nuts.

 

[richfinn]

Bummer. Wanted something different but it looks like I'll be buying another matco. I liked the kokens knurling but I think the low teeth will drive me nuts.

I've got a 3/8" Ko-ken 72T Z Series flex-head, they don't lock but have a nice detent feature, more compact than the USA style ratchets if you are looking for something a bit different.

I use mine alongside a Snap-On Dual 80 flex-head and a Facom 72T extendable flex-head, makes for a diverse collection that complement each other quite well.

Pointless buying an inferior copy of something you already have with the GW IMHO, absolutely agree you should branch out and try something outside the box

 

[drtyler]

Bummer. Wanted something different but it looks like I'll be buying another matco. I liked the kokens knurling but I think the low teeth will drive me nuts.

What about Snap-on FLX80B?

 

[tamaraw]

Both good tools but a very dissimilar comparison.

One is essentially a a fancy derivative of a 1940's Plomb. Good machining and built to last, but you say that you work in confined areas, so 24t may be limiting at that handle length.

The other is a modern development, 80 tooth, FOD, and has a large ergonomic quick release and selector switch. Stahlwille doesn't publish dimensions from what I can find but it appears similar to the Ko-ken Zeal line in the video below, so it would be quite a bit slimmer than the 24t Ko-ken you linked.

Snap-on and Gearwrench/Matco are other obvious contenders in the locking flex head space and that info is pretty easy to access. A less common model but probably the strongest mechanism on the market is Gedore's dial lock type, 3/8" version would be 3093 GU-3. It lets you go from free flex to completely locked and any tension in-between, albeit takes slightly longer to adjust than a button.

Brief size comparison of Gedore and Stahlwille at 25m24s shows the Stahlwille is quite a bit slimmer. The Gedore is going to be closer to the Ko-ken in size but with 3 times the teeth.

 

[Zewnten]

What about Snap-on FLX80B?

I don't like snap Ons locking mechanism on this style and I don't like their 100 tooth ratchets that do have the lock I do like.

I'll take a look at the gedore.

 

[drtyler]

I don't like snap Ons locking mechanism on this style and I don't like their 100 tooth ratchets that do have the lock I do like.

I'll take a look at the gedore.

The Gedore locking flexhead ratchet looks like a good tool. If you end up buying one, please post a review after use.

 

[turnthewrench 2.0]

Carlyle

 

[drtyler]

I don't like snap Ons locking mechanism on this style and I don't like their 100 tooth ratchets that do have the lock I do like.

I'll take a look at the gedore.

Can you provide a link or picture of the Snap-on 100 tooth ratchet with locking flex head? I looked on their site and did not see one.

 

[F-22]

Germans make fine tools but they generally disappoint when comparing to premium Japanese or USA tool brands or even some Taiwanese ones.

Instead of the flex head Koken, consider the swivel head. They are very well regarded, the metal handle has very deep knurling, and these have finer teeth than the generic pear head (I think about 2x as much, still not as many as modern fine tooth ratchets but good enough for most cases). Being able to use it as a screwdriver is awesome too.

 

[HannibalLecter]

Germans make fine tools but they generally disappoint when comparing to premium Japanese or USA tool brands or even some Taiwanese ones.

Instead of the flex head Koken, consider the swivel head. They are very well regarded, the metal handle has very deep knurling, and these have finer teeth than the generic pear head (I think about 2x as much, still not as many as modern fine tooth ratchets but good enough for most cases). Being able to use it as a screwdriver is awesome too.

If someone were to buy a swivel head I would suggest the facom aerospace one, I forget the part no though

 

[Dave455]

Germans make fine tools but they generally disappoint when comparing to premium Japanese or USA tool brands or even some Taiwanese ones.

Instead of the flex head Koken, consider the swivel head. They are very well regarded, the metal handle has very deep knurling, and these have finer teeth than the generic pear head (I think about 2x as much, still not as many as modern fine tooth ratchets but good enough for most cases). Being able to use it as a screwdriver is awesome too.

This is probably good advice.

I have this tool and it’s excellent. Very high quality.

It is quite a big tool though. Roto head top, compared to standard below.


The KTC should also be considered, it’s got a much smaller head and a very fine tooth mechanism.

Neither of course, are locking, and using a roto head is a very different experience from a flex head. Although I like my roto heads, a flex head is often just the right tool for automotive work.

 

[HannibalLecter]

Facom J159.A

 

[Dave455]

Facom J159.A

I’m pretty certain these are long discontinued.

The original reason for their existence, and indeed for all the ratchet’s in the “aerospace” series, was that Facom’s regular ratchets (both the traditional, and the then new “palm control”) all had plastic / rubber handles, and didn’t meet aerospace specs, which required metal handles.

I bought one of the regular length aerospace ratchets back then, for exactly that reason.

In all honesty though, the palm control ratchets were by far the better tools, and Facom subsequently introduced metal handle versions of those. Probably the best they have ever made.

 

[Zewnten]

Drtyler: I thought I saw it on the truck. It was the goofy new hinge design. I assumed it was 100th maybe not.

Thanks for the suggestions on the roto heads but I dislike them.

 

[mreisner]

They don't have the locking Cynergy ratchets out yet. They do have the new locking style dual 80's however.

 

[VolvoRyan]

Bummer. Wanted something different but it looks like I'll be buying another matco. I liked the kokens knurling but I think the low teeth will drive me nuts.

I know the feeling. I really like various European and Japanese tools. They just don't really fill this niche well.

-Ryan

 

[Andres26tnt]

This is probably good advice.

I have this tool and it’s excellent. Very high quality.

It is quite a big tool though. Roto head top, compared to standard below.


The KTC should also be considered, it’s got a much smaller head and a very fine tooth mechanism.

Neither of course, are locking, and using a roto head is a very different experience from a flex head. Although I like my roto heads, a flex head is often just the right tool for automotive work.

I own the KTC is a fine ratchet, but a little higher backdrag for those who care for that. I preferred the Astro products version ‎02-25661, it's slightly slimmer and just as nice. Also it's cheaper but made in taiwan.

 

[Ohio Andy]

I own the KTC is a fine ratchet, but a little higher backdrag for those who care for that. I preferred the Astro products version ‎02-25661, it's slightly slimmer and just as nice. Also it's cheaper but made in taiwan.

Although I prefer lower back drag, it usually only matters in very specific situations. Like when I was using a small ratcheting wrench with a screwdriver bit on the end trying to get a screw out of something and the back drag was enough and I couldn't just use the ratchet normally when the screw got out a bit.... And it was still too tight for me to use my fingers.

 

[Andres26tnt]

Although I prefer lower back drag, it usually only matters in very specific situations. Like when I was using a small ratcheting wrench with a screwdriver bit on the end trying to get a screw out of something and the back drag was enough and I couldn't just use the ratchet normally when the screw got out a bit.... And it was still too tight for me to use my fingers.

Just mentioning it as it's the new hot topic of discussion in ratchets. Since I own both models, I can say the backdrag on the KTC is higher then others for sure. Still very usuable, lube makes it better, not by much. I need to find something similar to superlube or less sticky. I preferred the AP roundhead due to it being slightly slimmer in the thickness department. The width is about the same, can't tell if it's smaller or the same. Need to pull some calipers out to measure. You can buy both in Amazon now. At 24$ is a bargain for such a slim round head, compared to the KTC 40$.

 

[Ohio Andy]

So this version

Kyoto Tool (KTC) BR2S-S Short Ratchet Handle

Amazon.com

 

[Tomstir]

I own the KTC is a fine ratchet, but a little higher backdrag for those who care for that. I preferred the Astro products version ‎02-25661, it's slightly slimmer and just as nice. Also it's cheaper but made in taiwan.

I assumed Astro was AP!! I looked up the item and it shows Japan..... Amazon but no shipping to the states. Where did you find yours?