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Q: Hazet Tools and the Country of Origin?

diyer999

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I have a question about Hazet Tools, and the country of origin of their 3/8 drive metric sockets. I assumed that all Hazet tools were made in Germany (unless otherwise labeled). But then I discovered something by accident. I sent Hazet a total of 17 email asking for an honest answer as to whether their sockets were 100% made in Germany. Hazet never answered one of those emails. I don't not believe that it is because no one at Hazet could read or write English. Hazet is a major tool manufacturer in the world and they probably have employees that can speak several of the world's major languages.

Anyway, here is the issue: A friend of mine who is an engineer saw the Hazet sockets and told me that they looked like they were made in Taiwan. So, we compared the Hazet with some Taiwan sockets and both share several identical features: Both were made from Vanadium, both had the same brushed chrome finish, but the more telling features are that both had the same exact size and shape of the knurled lines on the sides, both had the same exact print font, and looking even closer the broach looked identical too. Knowing about patent laws and how companies must be very careful not to violate such laws, especially in today's Global market, I got curious about this looked into several issues:

First of all, the Hazet sockets that are exported the USA are labeled with English letters and spell the word "Germany." There is also no labels on the sockets that say, "Made in Germany." The odd thing about that is that the Germans refer to Germany as Deutschland, so why would they put the word Germany on the socket? Q: I wonder how would Hazet tools sold in Germany for Germans be labeled? It makes about as much sense as a USA company labeling their tool in Greek or Russian and then selling it here.

The more significant issue is that German importing and exporting laws are not the same as US law is on the subject. In the US the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the US in order to legally be labeled as such, regardless if the product will be exported. So, I called the German consulate and asked them questions and they looked into it for me and I discovered that the German people are having the same outsourcing problems as we are having, i.e., crappy tools being imported from various other countries. They told me that German law allows a German based tool manufacturer to label their tool with the single word "Germany." if their tool was made in another country. So, this means it was only designed for, or purchased by the German company and then imported back into Germany; but it cannot say "Made in Germany" unless it was 100% made in Germany. So, having the single word Germany on a tool only means that the company is based in Germany and nothing more. Now if a quality tool was truly Made in Germany, just as if a quality tool is Made in the USA, then why wouldn't the tool mfr want to put that on their tool? It would certainly be in their interest to do this, as Germany has long been known to mfr products of very high quality, as well as other European countries.

It is very deceptive and misleading to label a brand name product with the word Germany, when the company is a well known German based company, and sell that product at a premium price ($170-$400), if the product was not made in Germany, because the consumer would be trusting the label and should not be expected to have to be versed in the loopholes or technicalities of German Laws.

But I can say one thing favorable about Hazet, I know that Hazet does manufacture some tools in Germany for Germans and for export [although I'm not sure where their current steel comes from now, due to all the problems with the steel industry worldwide]. But I dont know which ones are and which ones are not. I think Hazet needs to stop stonewalling people with legitimate product questions.

So, considering what our comparison revealed, patent laws, what the German consulate told me, and most importantly, that Hazet ignored 17 of my emails about the country of origin, I am very suspicious about those sockets. That is why I hope that someone that is very knowledgeable about this issue might just read this and let me know the truth (maybe someone from Germany, or maybe not). Perhaps there may be a much better website to ask this question, so this is just a starting point. :headscrat:confused:

Thanks to anyone taking the time to read this issue.

PS. This board has the best smiles I ever saw (I just sittin here laughing my head off at how animated they are)
 
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spv

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I have read a similar query on another forum about Hazet "COA". I will be interesting to hear what some of the Hazet experts have to say about this. I know that Monte has posted photos of Hazet tools that are made in Australia. That being said, I would be most shocked if they were off-shoring their sockets.

EDIT: I also noticed that some of my Stahlwille wrenches have "Made in Germany" and some just have "Germany". That being said they are pretty emphatic in their catalog and brochures that these are made in Germany. All advertising carries the "Forged and Finished in Germany" regardless of if it is "Germany" or "Made in Germany" on the wrench.
 
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Monte

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re: Hazet socket production: please take a look at these videos: http://www.hazet.de/download-service/film-archiv/

There you can see socket, ratchet + wrench production. I once asked a Hazet dude about their steel and he said that they buy it from a small german company since 30 years (or so). There are still 85.000 employees in the german steel + metal industry.

ps: in the "Tools from the..." thread i posted a pic of the Hazet forging robot for their socket line.

Similar socket designs ?? How many different socket designs can you make out of a cylindrical piece of steel ....??
And how many different manufacturers of machinery to make them are there ??

successful products are always copied: Copied wrench design, copied screwdriver handles, copied automobiles, copied cameras, copied sockets.....

re: "Germany":
there are already a couple of threads with the answer why its in english (see Wiki).
A "Germany" on a product which is not from here is misleading and hence illegal (Competition Protection Act/competition regulations). They must be sued though (No plaintiff, no judge)

The company "KS-Tools" was sued i was told because they used "KS-Tools Germany" on imported products. Now the "Germany" is gone...


more information (in german) http://www.ja-zu-deutschland.de/made-in-germany-ihk.php
 
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bsaint

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My BMW manual says "Made in Germany." Im pretty sure its not a fake. It breaks down like a genuine BMW.
 

Monte

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here a pic of the Hazet forging robot and the hydraulic press for their sockets:

hazetroboter.jpg



here the complete story in the Hazet magazine: (page 4) http://www.hazet.de/uploads/media/geniokurier2008.pdf
 

ash95608

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re: Hazet socket production: please take a look at these videos: http://www.hazet.de/download-service/film-archiv/

There you can see socket, ratchet + wrench production. I once asked a Hazet dude about their steel and he said that they buy it from a small german company since 30 years (or so). There are still 85.000 employees in the german steel + metal industry.

ps: in the "Tools from the..." thread i posted a pic of the Hazet forging robot for their socket line.

Similar socket designs ?? How many different socket designs can you make out of a cylindrical piece of steel ....??
And how many different manufacturers of machinery to make them are there ??

successful products are always copied: Copied wrench design, copied screwdriver handles, copied automobiles, copied cameras, copied sockets.....

re: "Germany":
there are already a couple of threads with the answer why its in english (see Wiki).
A "Germany" on a product which is not from here is misleading and hence illegal (Competition Protection Act/competition regulations). They must be sued though (No plaintiff, no judge)

The company "KS-Tools" was sued i was told because they used "KS-Tools Germany" on imported products. Now the "Germany" is gone...


more information (in german) http://www.ja-zu-deutschland.de/made-in-germany-ihk.php

Bgs tools use to say Bgs Germany and they had to change it to
Bgs Werkzeuge (witch means Bgs Tools) because of the German Laws stating that you can not have Germany on anything that is not made there
 

Sick Puppy

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Anyway, here is the issue: A friend of mine who is an engineer saw the Hazet sockets and told me that they looked like they were made in Taiwan. So, we compared the Hazet with some Taiwan sockets and both share several identical features: Both were made from Vanadium, both had the same brushed chrome finish, but the more telling features are that both had the same exact size and shape of the knurled lines on the sides, both had the same exact print font, and looking even closer the broach looked identical too.
Do you have any pictures of the sockets in question?
 

doctorschmullus

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Id like to see them, Interestingly enough china and taiwan can replicate almost anything, I am buying a near exact replica guitar
 

mrholeshot

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Here is the thing, people are so gullible that you cold build two of the exact same product buy the exact same company, using the exact same componets but the only differance being one was built in China by American workers and the other was built in the USA by chinese workers and people would swear the ones produced in the USA were better. You could also build a product in Tiawan and mark it Made in USA and turn out a quality product and people would swear it was better than anything since sliced bread. Take a Duralast Ratchet and mark it USA by Snap-On and the reveiws would be outrageous good. I have some absolute **** tools built in the USA(not Craftsman) and some excellant tools built in Asia.

If you have any doubt that the Asian people can't build something spectacular play a Takamine guitar, Play a Tokia, Greco. etc and if you really want something modern buy a new Hagstrom Viking Deluxe. They will blow you away. Better than the swedish built version
 

Theloniousmonk

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If the OP is talking about the deep Etorx HF sells, yea they look nearly identical to the Hazets (and seem to be of fine quality)... HF used to offer a Facom ratchet knockoff too... China has pretty lax property/copyright/patent laws... it's not hard to copy a piece dimensionally. I'm pretty sure the "deutschland" vs. "germany" has been addressed numerable times on the interwebs (and this site). Regardless of COO, Hazet makes a fine product. I don't think they are being deceptive either, if you look through their catalog, you will see CLEARLY the German Check Mark (made in Germany) on each and every product that is MADE IN GERMANY - 6pt. shallow metrics are clearly Made In Germany, some others are not is seems. Maybe the "importer" is being deceptive? Oh, and I read your post on a Volvo site a few months ago too.
 

Mike Hipp

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Most Hazet tools are made in Germany. The older ones that I had say hazet Germany on the tools. I used to live in Holland and they are considered one of the best tools in europe. lately I do think that they have started to make some in asia.
 
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diyer999

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I see if I can upload them. Busy with other stuff but as soon as I can I will try. Hold tight.
 
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diyer999

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Yeah, no one answered the question there. They have some people from Germany who post there but evidently only about cars. Its not the best place to ask about tools. Didnt think about posting here until later.
 
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diyer999

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The issue is trust. And as for making something in Asia and marking it USA, actually Stanley-Proto has been caught twice doing just that and were sued by the FTC for doing it - it is illegal. Btw, I also have some very sweet tools made in Taiwan. I like lots of Taiwan stuff, but I would object to having it marked USA and then paying much more for it, regardless of the quality. I have all kinds of tools, primarily Snappy stuff for my automotive tools, though. I like the German tool steel, the tolerances, and the loyalty to craftsmanship, but not always the design of their automotive tools. I prefer the Snappy chrome sockets, wrenches, ratchets. I tried the Hazets as a kind of comparison experiment.
 
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diyer999

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If the OP is talking about the deep Etorx HF sells, yea they look nearly identical to the Hazets (and seem to be of fine quality)... HF used to offer a Facom ratchet knockoff too... China has pretty lax property/copyright/patent laws... it's not hard to copy a piece dimensionally. I'm pretty sure the "deutschland" vs. "germany" has been addressed numerable times on the interwebs (and this site). Regardless of COO, Hazet makes a fine product. I don't think they are being deceptive either, if you look through their catalog, you will see CLEARLY the German Check Mark (made in Germany) on each and every product that is MADE IN GERMANY - 6pt. shallow metrics are clearly Made In Germany, some others are not is seems. Maybe the "importer" is being deceptive? Oh, and I read your post on a Volvo site a few months ago too.

No, the OP is not talking about those HF sockets ... the HF ones are not marked "Germany" :lol_hitti The distributor I got them from is an authorized Hazet sales agent for the US market. Good luck getting anywhere with anything at the Volvo site -- terrible source for tool questions.
 
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diyer999

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Yep, that's about it in a nutshell. I just wish I knew which ones were and which ones weren't. Gee, I do hope that Hazet does not hire any Stanley-Proto Executives!
 
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Monte

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They each make their own tools. Gedore however supplies wrenches and sockets larger than 50mm/100mm i was told.
 

Monte

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The large Hazet wrenches also look different. Different forging/design of the wrench, and name laser engraved and rough (hand ground ?) finish of the wrench.

80mm "Hazet" combination wrench

hzuij49.jpg
 

jensputzier

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I have a question about Hazet Tools, and the country of origin of their 3/8 drive metric sockets.

I can answer your question. All Hazet sockets are Made in Germany. Apart from having visited the production myself lately, being a Hazet dealer I have a full list of all Hazet articles including their country of origin.

Not all Hazet products are made in Germany, but about 90%. Obviously Hazet does not manufacture plastic or electronic products, but nearly everything that is made from steel comes from Germany.

BUT: There have been some Hazet imitations lately, they were even sold on Ebay. People then went to Hazet to claim their warranty and that was how they found out. So if you you buy something on the internet, make sure it comes from a reputable source. As always: If it looks to good to be true, it probably is ;-)
 
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mofo62

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The large Hazet wrenches also look different. Different forging/design of the wrench, and name laser engraved and rough (hand ground ?) finish of the wrench.

80mm "Hazet" combination wrench

hzuij49.jpg



:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:


thanks for pictures Monte :beer:


V!
 

Bielio

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....Not all Hazet products are made in Germany, but about 90%....

*Old thread, I know*
Aren't the newer catalogs depicting whether Hazet tools are made in Germany or not?
There's a small German flag with the words "made in germany" next to it.
example: The Pozidrive on top is not made in Germany, while the torx below are made in Germany 100%?

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww55/KB44/Screwdriver_zps9vtaitqc.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo Screwdriver_zps9vtaitqc.jpg"/></a>
 

Monte

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*Old thread, I know*
Aren't the newer catalogs depicting whether Hazet tools are made in Germany or not?
There's a small German flag with the words "made in germany" next to it.
example: The Pozidrive on top is not made in Germany, while the torx below are made in Germany 100%?

The screwdrivers on top are from Slovenia afaik and the lower ones are probably from Witte.
 

Dave455

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While I don't particularly approve of any outsourcing (there's an element of deceit in all of it) I have to say that the Germans generally seem to make a better job of it than most American firms.

For a start, they generally tend to outsource to somewhere slightly cheaper in Europe, rather than China. Secondly, they seem to be able to maintain better control over the quality of materials, and quality of the finished product!

I own several of the Trinamic drivers shown, and they are really decent tools - tough blades and superbly shaped hard handles. Only time will tell how long they will last, but I'd say the outlook is good! Way ahead of anything I've seen from China, or even Taiwan!

German (or indeed most European firms) also seem to outsource far less than their American equivalents. It'll often just be one line of products that they didn't make in house anyway. The only exception seems to be when they get taken over by American companies, when the domestic factory can expect to be closed instantly and all the products replaced with almost unusable Chinese copies! Record tools come to mind!
 

Bielio

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Monte and Dave, thanks for the responses.

My concern is that if I'm investing my coin in a German company, I'd like to at least get something made with extremely high standards with their level of quality control. The "deceit" as Dave mentioned is real and played well by other companies.
I'm not saying Hazet "outsourced" tools are bad, quite the contrary. If their quality control is tight, then fine. Deep down, if the tool implies made in Germany, I'd like a German tool 100% especially with the price tag.

It's like Mercedes saying "german made" but they're built right here in the US of A.

Quote Mercedes USA:
"Welcome to Tuscaloosa County Alabama, U.S.A, and the production location of the Mercedes-Benz GLE SUV, GL SUV , the C-Class for the North American market and the brand new 2016 GLE Coupe SUV. "
 

Superbec

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That's just proof they're made in china? why would they write an article in "chinese" if the tools are german?

(using the same "logic" ...why it doesn't say made in Deutschland with gothic font)

dooohhh
 
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