When I built my shop 17 years ago I buried pex for a heated floor. It's on top of 2" foamboard. Then I installed a propane fired reznor heater and a mitsubishi mini split heat pump. I haven't finished or installed the heated floor. The pex pipes are sitting in a closet waiting for that to be done. I just haven't felt the need. And concern over the cost and complexity of running the system.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Under floor heat... is it really that great?
- Thread starter WI/MI Border
- Start date
larry4406
Well-known member
This has been a good read folks. Lot's to consider.
HoosierBuddy
Well-known member
Suggest you do another post titled "Mini split for part time heating?"Good points but I'll stick to perimeter insulation and a mini split for heat.
I know that traditional heat pumps struggle with large temperature set backs. Typically that causes the "emergency" heat strips to come in which the power company affectionally calls "Meter Spinners".
If you want AC, a mini split would be great. It would be good too for constant heat. If you're going to set it back 20 degrees when you aren't out there, you may want to consider some other additional heat source for quick recovery. Hopefully someone with a mini-split could provide better information on how they handle going from 50 to 65 when it's 10 degrees outside.
Certainly, insulation will be your friend regardless of what you decide.
kj_mustang
Well-known member
Another thinking point, mini splits require very frequent filter cleanings.
A friend of mine has a 42' X 90' race engine shop with 16' sidewalls. He has in floor heating / boiler system. When you open one of the 12' x 12' shop doors to load or unload a customer's job the shop air temp plummets and takes a good 45 minutes to an hour for it to recover. The fix was to have a ceiling mounted gas unit heater by the overhead doors to help the temp recover quickly. His recovery absolutely sucked with in floor heat only.Wouldn't be without it in my shop in Minnesota. Silent. Comfortable. Keep it at constant ~50F throughout winter. Put on sweatshirt if not working hard. Take off if building up a sweat.
Not sure I understand the earlier comment about slow recovery after opening door? Recovery is extremely quick because of all the heat stored in the mass of concrete. I can open the door in -20F weather and be back to comfortable within minutes after closing the door.
Previous garage / shop experience was a hanging natural gas heater. Loud, drafty, hot / cold spots, cold floor, etc. No way would I ever go back.
Greg
Notgrownup
Well-known member
I say if you can afford to do it and can afford to maintain and use it, go for it. A warm floor in the winter is nice . I don’t need it in NC but visiting my home town in Northern Canada in the winter, I told my guy friends and brother in law with shops that the warm floor is nice but they maintain it with constant wood heat and oil furnace supplement. Do it if you can. You probably won’t regret it .
biggest thing is maintaining the temps. My shop is constant 61 degrees in the winter with heat and 80 in the summer with a/c 24x24 with 18000 btu mini split
If I’m on the floor I have some kind of blanket or lawn chair cushion to lay on so I don’t feel the floor anyway Anytime of the year.
biggest thing is maintaining the temps. My shop is constant 61 degrees in the winter with heat and 80 in the summer with a/c 24x24 with 18000 btu mini split
If I’m on the floor I have some kind of blanket or lawn chair cushion to lay on so I don’t feel the floor anyway Anytime of the year.
Last edited:
Notgrownup
Well-known member
Mine requires filter vacuuming every mon or other months. I blow it out with some light compressor air occasionally. I use a filter fan box I made myself as well when woodworking.Another thinking point, mini splits require very frequent filter cleanings.
OP
WI/MI Border
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2025
- Messages
- 196
I was wondering about my woodworking's effect on the mini split. I know it will require regular cleanings, and not just the filter! I do have dust collection and an air cleaner so it should be mostly light dust. It'll be so nice to have a detached shop to manage dust. My basement shop hasn't been blown out for over thirty years and has a significant amount of dust in areas I don't clean... first floor floor joists, pipes, pegboard, etc. The new shop will be blown out with a leaf blower every chance I get and with finished/painted ceiling and walls it should be easier.
OP
WI/MI Border
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2025
- Messages
- 196
I realize now I opened up a bad can of worms : )Suggest you do another post titled "Mini split for part time heating?"
...
Not a problem really. These forums tend to take their own course from the original post. That's cool. I'm satisfied that I have the answer I was looking for. Kind of like debating favorite beers!
My experience is the complete opposite. I worked in an HVAC shop with floor heat, in North Dakota. There were times the overhead door might be wide open for a half hour moving in freight, or steel. Some of these days it was well below zero outside. Close the door and in 15 minutes it was comfortable again.A friend of mine has a 42' X 90' race engine shop with 16' sidewalls. He has in floor heating / boiler system. When you open one of the 12' x 12' shop doors to load or unload a customer's job the shop air temp plummets and takes a good 45 minutes to an hour for it to recover. The fix was to have a ceiling mounted gas unit heater by the overhead doors to help the temp recover quickly. His recovery absolutely sucked with in floor heat only.
We ran the space them at 65F and guys would work in the shop in t-shirts.
Maybe my friend's system had an undersized boiler. When he first ran the in-floor heating, he turned the thermostat back about 10 degrees at the end of the workday. He told me that was a mistake because it took 10 hours to bring the shop temp back up ten degrees. After that he left the temp set the same all the time.My experience is the complete opposite. I worked in an HVAC shop with floor heat, in North Dakota. There were times the overhead door might be wide open for a half hour moving in freight, or steel. Some of these days it was well below zero outside. Close the door and in 15 minutes it was comfortable again.
We ran the space them at 65F and guys would work in the shop in t-shirts.
Yeah, you don't do a night set back for floor heat!Maybe my friend's system had an undersized boiler. When he first ran the in-floor heating, he turned the thermostat back about 10 degrees at the end of the workday. He told me that was a mistake because it took 10 hours to bring the shop temp back up ten degrees. After that he left the temp set the same all the time.
It isn't the boiler, you are trying to heat tons of concrete and it takes hours!
I have radiant heat in my shop, hooked to a homemade solar panel built into the south wall of the shop. With no other heat going the shop has never been below 39. It generally keeps temps around 45 to 50 in the middle of winter. Its been running since 2011 untouched. Taco 007 SS pump and a differential controller keeps it all automatic without me doing a thing. Now if I'm going to be out there working and want more heat I start my woodstove and its easier to get temps up to 60s as its already fairly warm in there. In a cold climate like Maine, nothing beat a warm floor.
Jwallace1
Well-known member
i have a 30x40 shop i built about 7 years ago and did in floor heat, if i built another shop i would do it again, i love it. its silent i hate listing to a unit heater run. its heated from October to April at 60 degrees, i use to have an hour meter on it so i could monitor how much it ran, i stopped paying attention when the batteries died but it would run on average about 1.5-2 hrs a day, depending on the outside temp. i would guess its about $40-50 a month to heat it. i do wish i had a way to measure just the gas consumption for the shop compared to the rest of the house but i haven't found a good way to do that. the big thing for me as mentioned above is everything is warm. the more stuff in the shop the more efficient it is, everything is like a thermal battery. the heat is very even the floor and ceiling are the same temp. i don't understand the comments about recovery time, if i open a door to pull a vehicle in or out it will kick on for a few minutes and shut back off the temp is back almost immediately, the air just needs to heat back up since i have a regular thermostat not a in slab probe it will cycle for a few minutes. one thing to think about is if you're not willing to invest in good insulation it might not be worth it. i have R30 in two walls, R36 in two walls and R30 in the ceiling with insulated doors and 2" under the slab. as far as maintenance i have done nothing to it since i installed it and got all the air bled out, it sits for 6 months after April turned off in the summer and i flip the switch and it fires right back up in October like it never shut off.
Last edited:
rust buster
Well-known member
I installed radiant heat in my 3,000 sq ft shop about 7 years ago. It's fed by a Navien NHB-80 condensing boiler using propane. I installed it myself using plans and a kit from Radiantec. The key is good insulation and and getting it up to heat before it's super cold out. I run mine at 55 degrees and the fluid (mine's a closed system with antifreeze in it) runs about 90 degrees. It's awesome and I would never go back. Heat the objects in the shop (and your feet), and the recovery time is super short and it's a great, even heat. I think I had about $5000 total, in the system back in 2018. The boiler was about $1800, the kit and all the components, was $2000, and the tubing was about $1200. Lots of labor, but doing it at my own pace, it wasn't bad.
75gmck25
Well-known member
I've got a related question, and thought maybe someone had experience with this setup.
On one of the home shows they had an existing floor (don't recall the specific material), and wanted in-floor heat. They tacked or glued down a grid that allowed you to snap PEX down into it and make your layout for hydronic. On top of the PEX they installed wood flooring, which was designed so it could be held down with fasteners that kept clear of the PEX. I recall them commenting that you usually needed wood or tile installed on top because most man-made products were not stable and would warp when heated and cooled. I think they also mentioned an option to pour a thin layer of concrete over it.
Uponor has a system called Quik Track, which uses tracked wood panels, which may be what I saw on the TV show. https://api.ferguson.com/dar-step-s...3438&USE_TYPE=INSTALLATION&PRODUCT_ID=1357156
It seems like it would allow you to retrofit floor heat (if you have clearance to increase the floor height) , or maybe you could just insulate and pour the floor in a new shop at a depth that allowed clearance to put the heating system on top instead of completely embedded in the initial pour.
Anyone worked with a system like this?
On one of the home shows they had an existing floor (don't recall the specific material), and wanted in-floor heat. They tacked or glued down a grid that allowed you to snap PEX down into it and make your layout for hydronic. On top of the PEX they installed wood flooring, which was designed so it could be held down with fasteners that kept clear of the PEX. I recall them commenting that you usually needed wood or tile installed on top because most man-made products were not stable and would warp when heated and cooled. I think they also mentioned an option to pour a thin layer of concrete over it.
Uponor has a system called Quik Track, which uses tracked wood panels, which may be what I saw on the TV show. https://api.ferguson.com/dar-step-s...3438&USE_TYPE=INSTALLATION&PRODUCT_ID=1357156
It seems like it would allow you to retrofit floor heat (if you have clearance to increase the floor height) , or maybe you could just insulate and pour the floor in a new shop at a depth that allowed clearance to put the heating system on top instead of completely embedded in the initial pour.
Anyone worked with a system like this?
Just an FYI,
I have buddy with a 24x32 foot garage with floor heat. His garage is nothing special, 2x4 construction, it needs more insulation in the ceiling. The guy he bought it from made an electric boiler out of a piece of pipe and a 5,000 watt water heater element, so 17,500 BTU. I talked to him today and he has an hour meter on the boiler so he knows how much it runs. It has been running nine hours a day for the last few days and temps have been below zero, highs just slightly above zero. So roughly 1/3rd the time. That indicates about 6,000 BTU running 24/7 would heat the place, or about 8 BTU per sqft.
I have buddy with a 24x32 foot garage with floor heat. His garage is nothing special, 2x4 construction, it needs more insulation in the ceiling. The guy he bought it from made an electric boiler out of a piece of pipe and a 5,000 watt water heater element, so 17,500 BTU. I talked to him today and he has an hour meter on the boiler so he knows how much it runs. It has been running nine hours a day for the last few days and temps have been below zero, highs just slightly above zero. So roughly 1/3rd the time. That indicates about 6,000 BTU running 24/7 would heat the place, or about 8 BTU per sqft.
whateg01
Well-known member
How warm does he keep it though. Takes more heat to keep it 75F than it does to stay at 40FJust an FYI,
I have buddy with a 24x32 foot garage with floor heat. His garage is nothing special, 2x4 construction, it needs more insulation in the ceiling. The guy he bought it from made an electric boiler out of a piece of pipe and a 5,000 watt water heater element, so 17,500 BTU. I talked to him today and he has an hour meter on the boiler so he knows how much it runs. It has been running nine hours a day for the last few days and temps have been below zero, highs just slightly above zero. So roughly 1/3rd the time. That indicates about 6,000 BTU running 24/7 would heat the place, or about 8 BTU per sqft.
He runs off floor temp and keeps the floor at 65 degrees. The space temp is usually about 60 degrees unless the wind is blowing hard, then it drops a bit, maybe 5 degrees at the most. I have been in his garage helping him with stuff and it is comfortable with a long sleeve shirt.How warm does he keep it though. Takes more heat to keep it 75F than it does to stay at 40F
Last edited:
I installed in-floor heat when I re-tiled my livingroom and master bathroom. The bathroom is 110v and the living room is 220v because it’s big. It was a complete pain in the *** to install and a big expense to install, but my wife wanted it, so I did it. We rarely use it because it takes a couple hours to heat up and is very expensive to use.
Never again.
Never again.
Funny! I installed electric floor heat in out bathroom and love it. If I ever re-tile the other bathroom I will put floor heat in it too.I installed in-floor heat when I re-tiled my livingroom and master bathroom. The bathroom is 110v and the living room is 220v because it’s big. It was a complete pain in the *** to install and a big expense to install, but my wife wanted it, so I did it. We rarely use it because it takes a couple hours to heat up and is very expensive to use.
Never again.
As for taking so long to heat up, don't you just leave it on? I set the floor temp to 85 degrees, turn it on in the fall and it is on all winter. Cost? No idea! I never noticed any increase on electrical consumption, but I sure there was a bit. I just looked, at a total load f about 200 watts it isn't a huge amount. Even it it ran steady, and I am certain it doesn't, it is only about 50 cents a day.
Last edited:
larry4406
Well-known member
We put electric floor heat in the ceramic tile when we did the kitchen renovation. Wife initially didn't want any part of it, but when I explained we only have one chance to put it in and you can leave it off if you don't like it, she agreed to the installation. The cost add was trivial as we were already committed to a new ceramic floor.
Fast forward family and wife love it! During the winter, I have it it come on to 80F starting at 4 am and run all day to 9 pm when it set backs to 60F.
Like @PoorUB , can't say it has made a huge blip in the power bill but I am sure it is a cost add.
The warmth coming into the kitchen from the garage on a cold day is amazing!
Fast forward family and wife love it! During the winter, I have it it come on to 80F starting at 4 am and run all day to 9 pm when it set backs to 60F.
Like @PoorUB , can't say it has made a huge blip in the power bill but I am sure it is a cost add.
The warmth coming into the kitchen from the garage on a cold day is amazing!
meathooker
Well-known member
It’s totally worth it! I only did 1/3 of my shop due to budget and planned use but I wish I would have done all of it.
stingry
Well-known member
Yes, it is really that great! Right now it is a windy, snowy zero degree day in Western Nebraska and it is a rather unpleasant walk out to my shop but once I open the door, I’m enveloped in a very comfortable heat that is unlike any other. This is radiant heat!!
Granted, it is not for everyone. The upfront cost is somewhat high but the operating cost is low if properly installed and adequate insulation is used, particularly below and around the slab. Radiant systems work best if the thermostat is set at one temp and not varied. Does not respond well to temp variations.
Granted, it is not for everyone. The upfront cost is somewhat high but the operating cost is low if properly installed and adequate insulation is used, particularly below and around the slab. Radiant systems work best if the thermostat is set at one temp and not varied. Does not respond well to temp variations.