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Hot Tub Breaker Tripping….

smokey0810

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Hot tub breaker tripping recently. I am suspecting heater element going out or bad breaker. Seems strange that they just put in a smart meter a few weeks back, and it’s been tripping since then. Any thoughts on that possibility?
 
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dcg9381

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Both times we've started to have a GFCI breaker trip, we had a bad pump. Should be relatively easy to debug if you disconnect the pump, retry, then disconnect the heater, retry. Should narrow it down. I believe the pump should run for a bit before the heater goes on, so if it kicks the breaker immediately, my bet is pump...

Last pump I replaced had two speeds and separate windings, so I was able to "limp" the hot tub along until I got a new pump by swapping the low and high speed wires.. As the high speed circuit was still good.
 

micromind

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One of the hot tub breakers needs to be GFI. It might be tripping on current overload or ground fault. Most likely, it's tripping on ground fault.

As noted above, disconnect one item at a time and see what happens. Eventually, you'll find the one that's causing the problem.

If you have access to a megger (Meg Ohm Meter), you can test each item for ground faults individually, these tests take far less time than unhooking each item.
 
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smokey0810

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Currently have the panel off, noticed the heater ground wire was not attached and was actually too short. Gonna get a replacement wire and start there with it being properly hooked up. It’s 24 years old and we’ve had no issues in the 3 years we’ve been in the house, besides a leak. So, will start withy the ground wire and take it from there.
 
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smokey0810

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Disconnected power wires from the heater to the board, measure 14 ohms….4K 240 watt heater element….gonna replace the non existent ground wire and take it from there…
 
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smokey0810

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Well, installed a new heater in Sept and that fixed the issue…until yesterday when the breaker kept tripping. Just disconnected the heater and got the power back on so see if it’s the heater tripping it. This hot tub is becoming more of a pain in the *** than it’s worth sometimes….have had a leak for a while that I am hoping to finally track down in April on my vacation. Friend at church has a meter to check the breakers out, so will be doing that this weekend.
 

firebirdparts

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My tub doesn't have whatever that is.

I will say this about the GFCI - I am not surprised that it kicks off once in a while, even if everything is totally perfect. If it kicks off every time, you would think the heater is not electrically isolated from the water.
 

dcg9381

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Anyone know a proper name for this piece?
I think (not totally sure) that's a one-way check valve, probably for mixing air into the water jet stream.
Here's a reference:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hottub/comments/1303uw3
Well, installed a new heater in Sept and that fixed the issue…until yesterday when the breaker kept tripping. Just disconnected the heater and got the power back on so see if it’s the heater tripping it.
Well, you have a new heater. The other two things you can check are the high and low speed windings on the motor. I assume you have a 120V / 240V "two speed" motor. Try disconnecting the hots one at a time and see if doesn't trip. Last time my hot tub was triggering a breaker it was the low speed winding on the motor. I by-passed it for a while (just ran high speed) until I could get a new motor in.
 

wyliesdiesels

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could be something else failed between the time the heater was replaced and now. check heater again, rule it out, move on to next component. process of elimination
 
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smokey0810

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That is a check valve, which broke off and had water leaking all over the patio….new one ordered off Amazon, big bolt plugging in hose for now.
Got home at lunch time and power was still on, with the heater being disconnected. This check valve was leaking small drops of water on the heater element, so think it was kicking off the breaker…..I’m pretty tired of this flipping thing….😃 friend at church is bringing me a tool to test the gfci breakers. Will see how that goes….
 

sparky 1971

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I've never had a hot tub and never will, but I've heard that they are like a boat: the two happiest days of the owners life are the day they get it, and the day they get rid of it. I've had a boat.
 
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smokey0810

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Well, it’s a $20 part….heater was a gift from the mother in law….so only $20 part in 4 years that we’ve been in the house (plus basic maintenance stuff)
 

micromind

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I absolutely despise working on hot tubs. It seems that some sort of an educated idiot engineer designed the perfect control panel, lots of useless electronic trash, undersize power relays and various other forms of 'I'm a big-shot' garbage.

My hot tub was purchased 22 years ago for around $25 or so. The fiberglass was in good condition but it had no pump or heater. So I took a piece of 1 1/8" plywood about 16" X 30" and made a pump skid. It has a 2HP 145T Frame electric motor that belt-drives a pedestal pump and a 1/4HP 48 frame motor that belt drives a smaller pedestal pump. There's a check valve between the pumps so the big one can't back flow through the smaller one.

The heater is an in-line model that screws into a 2" tee right out of the big pump. It has its own built-in high temperature limit switch.

The control panel is simple, 2 NEMA motor starters and some basic controls. No fancy electronics at all. If it calls for heat, the small pump and heater turn on until it's warm enough. The big pump is controlled by a simple pushbutton and is interlocked with the small pump so they cannot both run at the same time.

In 22 years and quite a bit of use, the only thing I've he'd to do so far is replace the bearings in the small pump. Very simple, standard double-shield ones and the shaft seal is a standard model as well.

Simple is almost always better......
 

dcg9381

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I've never had a hot tub and never will, but I've heard that they are like a boat: the two happiest days of the owners life are the day they get it, and the day they get rid of it. I've had a boat.
Meh. If you're old, sometimes a tub of hot water works wonders.
There are really complex versions, multiple pumps, multiple speeds. Lots of plumbing.

I have a 15+ year old tub that I bought for $500. I had to replace the control interface and pump (eventually).
And our second tub (costco) is also fairly simple. Single motor, double windings, and a heater.

But yea, you can spend big money on these and get really complicated versions.
 

driftpin

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I hope you get that unit squared-away. If you have body pains, and who doesn't as you get older, a spa or a hot tub can save you many pains.

Not about a spa problem, but an interesting story:

When I was moonlighting on my off-days from fire-rescue I worked for a company owned by Bob Kuechenberg of the 'Perfect Season' Miami Dolphins, an All-Pro and Pro Bowl guard (6 times for the latter). He had a Miami attorney as the general manager of his spa and hot tub company. I would hop into my '61 Ford Econoline pick-up, then stop by the shop where they manufactured the redwood hot tubs, head to another shop where they sold the corporate account the PVC pipe and the fittings, the pump, the aerator, and the cartridge filter. I'd install the hot tub or spa and the equipment, but since I wasn't a licensed electrical contractor, that was left to someone else.

The Miami Herald newspaper had a Sunday magazine named Tropic. It always had interesting articles. Crime, government scandals, politics, local events, popular culture, and more. The humorist Dave Barry was a columnist for the Herald. Since newspapers have gone downhill, the Miami Herald isn't what it used to be.

The Miami Tourism Bureau hired the Miami Beber Silverstein ad agency to come-up with an ad campaign advertising the benefits of Miami during the below-zero degrees F winter season, to be used in the metropolitan Northeast and Midwest. An attractive flight attendant who also modeled, was chosen to be the sole person shown on the ad. She was facing away from the camera, head turned to the left, so you saw her face smiling, in profile, She was wearing a snorkel and a skindiving mask pushed above her forehead, and a string bikini bottom. She held a weight belt and a pair of swim fins. Nothing else. I guess she hadn't gotten around to slipping on the string top. The picture was sent out to tourism bureaus in the north, as mentioned. It became an overnight phenomenon.

Churches commenting about it decried the downfall of Western civilization. Mothers walking past travel agencies where the large poster was prominently featured in their storefront would cover Little Johnny's eyes so he wouldn't be exposed to such depravity. Meanwhile, Little Johnny's daddy was running the cost of a Miami/Miami Beach winter vacation through his head. He was hoping that his choice of accommodations would have its swimming deck populated by such comely women. Preferably wearing similar outfits.

1741825224071.png

The ad was a success from a merchandising standpoint. People planned to spend their winter vacations in Miami, and the ad had caused enough backlash that the Dade County Commission withdrew it from circulation, the few which were left undistributed within the tourism industry.

The attorney who managed Bob Kuechenberg's hot tub and spa business, offered Gail Kelly, the model, a performance contract. They would duplicate the iconic picture of Gail, and they would market it to anyone who wanted one. The picture was done, the copies were printed, and marketing consisted of a small ad maybe 1 or 2 column inches in The Miami Herald on a Sunday. It had the price and directions on where to go to buy one of the reproductions, and when the location was open for business. The sales location was the attorney's office.

That Monday after the picture of Gail Kelly was advertised, was a spa and hot tub workday for me, being off from fire-rescue. I made my rounds picking up equipment and supplies. My next stop was the attorney's office to pick-up the paperwork.

I was a block-away from where the attorney's practice was. As I headed towards the building I saw a line of people, the length of the building, and down the street. I don't recall seeing any women, just men. Lots of young men, looking to buy a picture of the flight attendant/model, who made the most-famous half a bikini picture in Miami's history.

I parked the '61 Econoline pick-up, and walked into the attorney's office, and there she was, Gail Kelly. She was busy signing autographs on the pictures, and there were a lot of happy guys leaving with their autographed copies. I found the attorney, I got my job paperwork and I headed past Gail. She had seen my speaking with the attorney, and she stopped me and sweetly asked, "To whom should I sign this copy?" I gave her my name, she signed the poster, and I reached for my wallet. "No charge for this one," she said as she handed the poster to me.

Off I went to do the day's jobs, with a fond memory of one of Miami's most-famous models. That and a poster she made memorable.

Ask anyone who was an adult, or perhaps a hormonally-hypercharged teen male in Miami back then (1978), and they will remember the "See Miami Like A Native" poster. I still have mine. Thanks, Gail Kelly.


Decades later our adult son told Mom about trying to find one of the posters of Gail Kelly in her (in)famous pose. I quietly listened to him telling us about trying to track-down one of them. He exclaimed, "They're asking $1,200 for them on ebay!"

I mentioned to the wife and our son, "I have one of those. It's signed, by the model, to me."

Our son didn't believe me. I went to a closet and pulled-out a cardboard tube. From the tube I pulled a rolled paper. When I unfurled it, there it was, my poster from 1978, and signed by Gail Kelly to me. Forty-five years in storage. I also had another memento which Ms. Kelly, she of the skindiving gear, a deep tan and half a bikini had given to me. It was one of her modeling cards, used by models to hand-out as advertising for modeling jobs. Our son had to say, "I thought you were B.S.'ing me!" He eventually found another copy, he bought it and it's framed, and on the wall in his home. Every time I see it, I get a big smile.
 

Norcal

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I've never had a hot tub and never will, but I've heard that they are like a boat: the two happiest days of the owners life are the day they get it, and the day they get rid of it. I've had a boat.
Wonder if hot tubs are like boats where the owner should spend 10% of the purchase price on yearly maintenance/upkeep?
 
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smokey0810

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From the meter -> 230/240 amp breaker -> two gfci breakers in one box, unknown amp load for each right now. Yesterday was 60* mph winds, so not much got done at work, let alone outside…lol
-> means it feeds into.
 

justsam

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Can you post a picture of the breaker that is tripping? Since it is a GFCI breaker you need to determine if it is tripping due to current overload, or from current imbalance. You say there are "two GFCI breakers in one box". Does this mean you see one typical "double" slot 240 volt breaker, or are there two 240 volt breakers? When you are able to reset the trip, do you do so by turning the breaker on/off or by also pressing the GFCI fault test/ reset button?
 
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mm08822

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Remove the load wires off each gfci cb and see if each resets. Hopefully you have been testing the resets with the 2pole SQ D cb on.

What's the point of the disconnect to the left with the plumbing fittings? Isn't there a cb in the main panel?

Is there a separate neutral bar in the enclosure with the 2 gfci cbs? Neutrals from gfci cb's and equipment grds are tied together - not kosher.
1742073437696.png
 

wyliesdiesels

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wow what a mess.

whats with the 50a breaker flapping in the wind on the left side of the panel?

replace the GFCI if the test button doesnt work
 
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smokey0810

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The cover was off the 50 amp breaker to the left. It’s just a strange deal cause the hot tub power will stay on for weeks & months, then just shut off. Gonna have a friend with electrical knowledge come and properly test everything tomorrow, with proper tools.
 

mike93lx

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I not a huge fan of firing the parts cannon, but I would have replaced all that **** a while ago. Troubleshooting old worn out stuff *****
 

PCustoms

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IMG_9492.jpegIMG_9493.jpeg
Breakers on the bottom are GFCB230. Neither test button works on them….

Cover was off on the breaker to the left? For how long?

What is the 3rd box out of frame to the left?

This is kind a a **** show mix of boxes, NM-b (I think) and maybe even a plumbing fitting thrown in.

Start over and see where that gets you.
 

wyliesdiesels

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yeah all of that should be ripped out

galvanized plumbing between unknown box and 50a breaker panel....

NM-b between the 50a and the GFCI panel....

dual NM-b from GFCI breakers to? the tub?....

what a mess.
 
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