Laser Rust Cleaning Machines

[JradM]

I was watching this video from Halfass Kustoms and it reignited my interest in laser cleaning and welding machines. Brent makes it look just as easy and useful as I imagined.

I know we've discussed the machines on the forum before - and there was even that fellow who bought one and posted some video, then seemed to disappear. But now it's another year or so later and the prices still seem to be creeping closer to "reasonable" territory where I can at least dream of owning one without it requiring a lottery win.

E.g. I'm seeing a unit like this advertised for about $6000 Canadian. Can that possibly be legit? I remember a decade ago laser cleaners were like $150,000.

Or here's one on Amazon for about twice as much (but presumably ordering from Amazon would guarantee you actually got it).



Why aren't these more popular now that prices have fallen? They're starting to look downright reasonable if they're everything they're cracked up to be.

I want one. Bad.

Edited to add: Here's one on Amazon for a "mere" $8050!

 

[neophyte]

There was a thread on these several or do months ago.
(Maybe just not several months).

Laser rust removal and welder?

I am thinking of buying a Laser rust removal machine. Yes they are expensive but they remove rust and pant and debri and make the surface ready for paint. I was looking on the Alibaba website and they run 6-9K for a 1000Watt unit. I found one on Amazon that also does welding. I currently...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[cosmokenney]

Main problem I see is there are no welding or cutting specs listed on any of the product pages linked. In other words, they don't specify what thickness of metal it can cut or weld. No duty cycle mentioned. If it uses standard welding wire, or do you have to order wire from China? Does it require any kind of shielding gas for welding metals like stainless or titanium? Lots of questions. No answers.

 

[cosmokenney]

Another problem for a lot of people will be if they buy it for production, where do you take it for repairs when/if it breaks down? Also what are the recurring maintenance cost.

 

[JradM]

Personally, I don't care if the machine welds or cuts too. Those are bonuses to the primary purpose I'd have for it - though certainly substantial bonuses. I want to clean rust fast and targeted with little setup and practically no mess.

 

[cosmokenney]

I want to clean rust fast and targeted with little setup and practically no mess.

That is definitely a big plus. If anyone has sand blasted a large item (too big to fit in a cabinet) before, they know what you mean.

 

[DG930]

I've done a good amount of research because I really want a laser cleaning machine. I'm trying to figure out the feasibility of striping automobiles for repainting. Here is a very quick and overly simplified summary:

There are two types of basic technology - continuous laser and pulsed laser

If all you want to do is blast the F out of rust (or whatever you are trying to remove) and you are not worried about the underlying material the continuous laser technology is what you probably want. In general they are orders of magnitude less expensive. The issue with them is that there is very little control over the output. They essentially roast the target. The underlying material can and will get hot or damaged by the beam.

The pulsed laser technology uses (sometimes) sophisticated heads, patterns and beam strength to adjust the energy for the substrate. Some of the legit industrial machines can go from removing dirt or layers of paint from a priceless marble statue to blasting grease off a gearbox.

They vary in quality and strength. They can be very expensive. The one I want is medium duty and costs $120K. Not happening any time soon.

 

[DG930]

I did not mention vapor recovery. Some machines vacuum the vaporized (and often toxic) contaminant and remove it from the work area.

 

[JradM]

I've done a good amount of research because I really want a laser cleaning machine. I'm trying to figure out the feasibility of striping automobiles for repainting. Here is a very quick and overly simplified summary:

There are two types of basic technology - continuous laser and pulsed laser

If all you want to do is blast the F out of rust (or whatever you are trying to remove) and you are not worried about the underlying material the continuous laser technology is what you probably want. In general they are orders of magnitude less expensive. The issue with them is that there is very little control over the output. They essentially roast the target. The underlying material can and will get hot or damaged by the beam.

The pulsed laser technology uses (sometimes) sophisticated heads, patterns and beam strength to adjust the energy for the substrate. Some of the legit industrial machines can go from removing dirt or layers of paint from a priceless marble statue to blasting grease off a gearbox.

They vary in quality and strength. They can be very expensive. The one I want is medium duty and costs $120K. Not happening any time soon.

Useful information! I can't say I know much about it myself. Brent's machine in that video honestly looks BETTER than I would need it to be. I presume it's the cheaper "continuous" type laser you mentioned?
l
How long till we get "hobbyist-grade" machines at Princess Auto and Harbor Freight? I imagine there's probably a level of complexity the machines require to where it doesn't make sense to offer a low-power "spot" type version, but a fellow can dream.

 

[Vise_Squad]

LASER CLEANING SAFETY BASICS​

While laser cleaning is relatively risk-free in the sense that lasers don’t blast shards or other metallic pieces into the space of any nearby individuals — as is the case with media blasting — there are still some safety precautions when operating the tool. Before operating a cleaning laser, you should always receive training to ensure you know how to use the equipment properly and that the proper settings have been set up.


The most important laser cleaning safety basics include:

1. Laser Safety Enclosures​

When operating a laser cleaner, an enclosure can help protect passersby and operators from specular and diffuse reflections. A well-designed enclosure will prevent the laser from operating when access panels or doors are open or when parts are missing. Each setup should include interlocking mechanisms to ensure anyone can’t enter the optical hazard zone when a laser is in use.

2. Personal Protective Equipment​

Not all jobs require a fixed enclosure — especially if using a portable laser cleaner. But, using a laser does require a designated hazard zone. When operating any powered cleaning laser without an enclosure, you should always wear laser safety glasses — that includes anyone entering the optical hazard zone where a laser is in use. The surrounding area should also be controlled and include signage to follow procedures.


In general, lasers produce a focused wavelength of light to a specific area, and with our laser sources, you should never allow the laser emission to come into contact with your eyes or skin. For eyes, this includes non-direct contact such as with diffuse reflections, like when the laser emission bounces off a typical metal surface, or specular reflections, which is an optical mirror or optically polished surface. Unlike other methods of blast cleaning, gloves aren’t necessary if following proper safety procedures. Before operating any cleaning lasers, you should receive training to understand how to use the lasers properly and eliminate the risk of doing harm to yourself or other people.

3. Other Safety Measures​

When cleaning hazardous paint contaminants — such as lead- or chrome-based paints — laser technology minimizes your risk of airborne contaminants. However, these contaminants exist in the air and need to be captured which is why our equipment is designed to capture as you clean and proven as extremely safe. Other forms of media blasting that remove these hazardous layers end up contaminating the air and can be hazardous to eyes, skin, and lungs. But, since contaminants absorb laser light, break down into a gas, and are then captured via our unique optic designs and air filtration, the risk is essentially mitigated.


Our laser systems also may require 480V. As with any other electrical solutions, you should always be mindful of proper electrical equipment lockout or tag-out procedures to prevent exposure. By receiving the proper training, you can minimize the risks of electrocution.


Non-metallic products — including wood, paper, and other combustible material — can pose a flammability risk if exposed to the laser emission for long enough. If the beam is out of focus, the material may start to heat up to the point of combustion. It is best to remove combustible material from the laser ablation area prior to cleaning.

The Basics of Laser Surface Cleaning Safety

Removing contaminants using laser ablation is a safer alternative to blasting — but there are still risks if not using the equipment properly. Learn more.

adapt-laser.com

Neat idea, but you only get one set of eyes, so I wouldn't be using the cheapest glasses. A fan blowing the **** away from the user would be a good idea. Notice the comment about gases produced by the combustion? Could be some surprises there!

Since these burn off grease and oil too, there would be no reason to do something dumb like putting carb or brake cleaner on there and then accidentally heating it up with your laser to make phosgene, which will kill you like it did soldiers in WWI.

 

[DG930]

Useful information! I can't say I know much about it myself. Brent's machine in that video honestly looks BETTER than I would need it to be. I presume it's the cheaper "continuous" type laser you mentioned?
l
How long till we get "hobbyist-grade" machines at Princess Auto and Harbor Freight? I imagine there's probably a level of complexity the machines require to where it doesn't make sense to offer a low-power "spot" type version, but a fellow can dream.

That looks like a continuous machine. Interestingly, SFX (the company that markets the machine you pictured) supplies both types. I use the word "markets" because you can find identical looking machines all over the place with just a different name on it. Who knows who really makes it.

 

[JradM]

Seriously, convince me machines like this are real and I would buy one:





Here's some example links:
$2776
$4359
$2131

I want those prices to be real - but I also know that's how scams work.

The guy on 6th Gear Garage got a pulse laser cleaning machine recently. He doesn't give the price, but says it was "four figures". The laser action starts at 3:08:

 

[AldeanFan]

Important question, can I attach the laser to my pet shark?

All I want is fricken sharks with fricken laser beams attached to their heads.

 

[zendriver]

Seriously, convince me machines like this are real and I would buy one:





Here's some example links:
$2776
$4359
$2131

I want those prices to be real - but I also know that's how scams work.

The guy on 6th Gear Garage got a pulse laser cleaning machine recently. He doesn't give the price, but says it was "four figures". The laser action starts at 3:08:

[Hot Item] Fortune Laser 100W 200W 300W 500W Laser Cleaner Pulse Fiber Handheld Laser Cleaner for Paint and Rust Removal

Model NO.: FL-C300 Control Type: Handheld Warranty: 1 Year Laser Power: 50W 100W 200W Optional Laser Source: Jpt/Max/Raycus Optional Fiber Cable Length: 1.5m-3m, 2-5m

fortunelaser.en.made-in-china.com

If the price doesn't seem "real" how much should they cost?

I can remember when laser printers were $15,000

Now I can get one for $150

 

[JradM]

[Hot Item] Fortune Laser 100W 200W 300W 500W Laser Cleaner Pulse Fiber Handheld Laser Cleaner for Paint and Rust Removal

Model NO.: FL-C300 Control Type: Handheld Warranty: 1 Year Laser Power: 50W 100W 200W Optional Laser Source: Jpt/Max/Raycus Optional Fiber Cable Length: 1.5m-3m, 2-5m

fortunelaser.en.made-in-china.com

If the price doesn't seem "real" how much should they cost?

I can remember when laser printers were $15,000

Now I can get one for $150

These machines are also sold on Amazon - that's what I'm using as a comparison. Aliexpress is often a bit cheaper because you can buy direct from manufacturers. The trade off is usually just time - shipping from China can take a month or more.

Oh, and the return policy if there's an issue - often they'll expect you to ship something back if you want a refund. I have heard that for large machines often you can negotiate for a partial refund instead if it's just a small issue that doesn't render the machine unusable.

However, the price disparity seems too steep. Right now I can find them on Amazon for about $10,500-$22,000. Brent from Halfass Kustoms suggested he got his from Amazon for a bit over $8000, but the price went up after he purchased because the seller didn't realize how much shipping would cost (no increase for him, but basically explaining why it wasn't available at that price anymore).

$2700? Even $4500? I'm not sure.

Lots of the product listings on Aliexpress have two prices - a "deposit" and "full payment". That way they show up in the results if you try to filter by price.

The ones I linked to don't have that. They seem to just be the price of the machine... but it's so cheap! My alarm bells are going off. I don't want FOMO to tempt me into a scam.

You're right though, that prices are coming down - that's also the reason I can't just dismiss the prices as obvious fraud.

10-15 years ago these were like $150,000. Five years ago it was more like $25,000. Two, they were as low as $13,000.

It's in the realm of "possibility" that you can get one for $3000 now - but it doesn't strike me as "probable" yet.

 

[JradM]

[Hot Item] Fortune Laser 100W 200W 300W 500W Laser Cleaner Pulse Fiber Handheld Laser Cleaner for Paint and Rust Removal

Model NO.: FL-C300 Control Type: Handheld Warranty: 1 Year Laser Power: 50W 100W 200W Optional Laser Source: Jpt/Max/Raycus Optional Fiber Cable Length: 1.5m-3m, 2-5m

fortunelaser.en.made-in-china.com

If the price doesn't seem "real" how much should they cost?

I can remember when laser printers were $15,000

Now I can get one for $150

Also, I've actually been emailing with Fortune Laser. I figure it would be better to buy from someone who I knew made at least one successful sale.

I don't have a price yet though. I'll report back.

So far they just want to know more about what I would use it for so they can advise on which machine is best.

 

[zendriver]

It's in the realm of "possibility" that you can get one for $3000 now - but it doesn't strike me as "probable" yet.

I once purchased a 4k drone from "bangood.com" for about a hundred bucks less than the same unit lowest Amazon price. Took like 3 weeks to get delivered. Turned out to be the real deal, but just in case purchased with CC.

Buy one with a credit card and charge back if it's a "burn" (no pun intended)?

I have been considering a laser unit, but not really needing one enough to justify even $3k+ price.

Lot lot of time higher prices are based on what people are willing to spend.

 

[JradM]

Also, I've actually been emailing with Fortune Laser. I figure it would be better to buy from someone who I knew made at least one successful sale.

I don't have a price yet though. I'll report back.

So far they just want to know more about what I would use it for so they can advise on which machine is best.

I got a reply from Fortune Laser. They suggested their portable mini model (based on my suggestion that I had pretty most rust cleaning needs - this is for my home shop afterall, not a production environment).

It comes in 50w or 100w versions. This is a pulse laser cleaner. They price they gave me was $6000 usd +$480 shipping.

Honestly, that's less than I expected for a pulse laser - yet more than I can afford for my personal use (that's about $8800 CAD for comparison to my other numbers).

 

[scooby074]

Important question, can I attach the laser to my pet shark?

All I want is fricken sharks with fricken laser beams attached to their heads.

Best we can do is an ill-tempered seabass.

 

[zendriver]

Just seems like of of those products, that in a few more years the prices will really drop, just from competition.

Seven grand still not bad, if it works like it says and holds up, or can at least be repaired.

 

[AldeanFan]

I hope they end up like plasma cutters,
20 years ago a shop I worked in paid like $5k for a plasma cuter.
I bought one recently on Amazon for under $200

 

[jdub63]

Did anyone pull the trigger on a laser welder 3 in 1?

 

[autobon7]

Waiting for the Vevor model. LOL

 

[tarbellb]

Waiting for the Vevor model. LOL

hahah

I just bought a Vevor trim router

it was so bad that it was dangerous
the base flew off mid test run, bit hit the base, and I pee'd a little

but you get lots of extras and BS for $50!

 

[Jswain]

Waiting for the Vevor model. LOL

I heard it is going to cut, clean, weld, and do the dishes for $39.99

 

[NTK4]

Anyone have any experience with this one? I have emailed them asking if it is continuous or pulse technology. Still waiting to hear. 1500W is about $4,500 USD with shipping.

Do you think if you had one of these you could advertise and make some $$ to offset the cost? What would people pay?

 

[zendriver]

Everyone is waiting for someone else to buy one first and see how they hold up.

Personally, I’m waiting for them to get the price down into the area of their plasma cutters.

 

[NTK4]

***UPDATE*** - just found out that the above unit, although it looks like a professional model is continuous technology, not pulse. I have been told with continuous laser, you run the risk of compromising the material, not just removing rust.

 

[zendriver]

***UPDATE*** - just found out that the above unit, although it looks like a professional model is continuous technology, not pulse. I have been told with continuous laser, you run the risk of compromising the material, not just removing rust.

So is it necessarily “bad versus good?”

The subject piqued my interest in just a quick search, found out that it looks like both are capable of damaging substrate, depending on several different factors

https://www.laserfocusworld.com/industrial-laser-solutions/article/14221883/laser-cleaning-with-continuous-wave-vs-pulsed-fiber-lasers

Apparently it looks like there’s more work to using the laser cleaner, then just turning it on and pointing it

 

[JradM]

Everyone is waiting for someone else to buy one first and see how they hold up.

Exactly! I mostly just want to know if the prices are legit, if they are reliable and whether there is after-sales support. $5000 is too much to spend if the machine doesn't last.


Pulsed lasers have advantages, but it's hardly the case that a continuous laser is no good. A pulse laser uses less power, is smaller, is easier to avoid harming the substrate and will have many more modes if you're trying to avoid harsh transitions or to expedite certain cleaning jobs.

However, a continuous laser will clean up heavy rust faster, might also have laser welder function and costs less.

It's got to come down to budget, the materials you're cleaning and your use case. You might have to work slower to clean sheet metal with a continuous laser, for example, but there's no reason it can't do it. On the other hand, if you're burning ink off a piece of paper - best try that with a pulse laser.

 

[zendriver]

Exactly! I mostly just want to know if the prices are legit, if they are reliable and whether there is after-sales support. $5000 is too much to spend if the machine doesn't last.


Pulsed lasers have advantages, but it's hardly the case that a continuous laser is no good. A pulse laser uses less power, is smaller, is easier to avoid harming the substrate and will have many more modes if you're trying to avoid harsh transitions or to expedite certain cleaning jobs.

However, a continuous laser will clean up heavy rust faster, might also have laser welder function and costs less.

It's got to come down to budget, the materials you're cleaning and your use case. You might have to work slower to clean sheet metal with a continuous laser, for example, but there's no reason it can't do it. On the other hand, if you're burning ink off a piece of paper - best try that with a pulse laser.

Well, somebody has to be Chuck Yeager, maybe it's you.

IMO $5 grand isn't squat, if I had a real use for it. Just playing around or for one job, sure hard to justify at all. Ironically, the technology like that, may have cost a quarter million $, when it was first developed and probably more problematic.

There's YT videos on the company and the products. Looks real

Looks like a pulse laser cleaner is nowhere near $5 grand, priced in the other direction, actually.

Just my opinion the Chinese seem to be trying hard to get away from their pot-metal wrench past, of 40 years ago. Contact the company with your questions. Pay with a credit card, to protect your purchase.

 

[JradM]

Well, somebody has to be Chuck Yeager, maybe it's you.

IMO $5 grand isn't squat, if I had a real use for it. Just playing around or for one job, sure hard to justify at all. Ironically, the technology like that, may have cost a quarter million $, when it was first developed and probably more problematic.

There's YT videos on the company and the products. Looks real

Looks like a pulse laser cleaner is nowhere near $5 grand, priced in the other direction, actually.

Just my opinion the Chinese seem to be trying hard to get away from their pot-metal wrench past, of 40 years ago. Contact the company with your questions. Pay with a credit card, to protect your purchase.

This video from 6th Gear Garage is pretty helpful. The pulse laser machine he's using is about $9000 USD.

I enquired with that company (Fortune laser) before the video was posted. Based on my mostly "hobby" needs they recommended a smaller portable 100w machine. I got a quote for $6000 USD + $480 shipping for this 100w unit.

I'm pretty confident that's legit and I would love to own one but... that's just too rich for me. I realize they look like bargains compared to the $150,000+ price tags from a decade ago, but that's still about $9000 Canadian. It would have to be about half that for me to get serious.

 

[zendriver]

Maybe I'll wait until they are $250, like plasma cutters. might be a while

 

[olds70supreme]

Maybe I'll wait until they are $250, like plasma cutters. might be a while

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807486683109.html?src=google&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%21520.00%21390.00%21%21%21%21%21%40%2112000041750228958%21ppc%21%21%21&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&albagn=888888&ds_e_adid=&ds_e_matchtype=&ds_e_device=c&ds_e_network=x&ds_e_product_group_id=&ds_e_product_id=en3256807486683109&ds_e_product_merchant_id=507339558&ds_e_product_country=US&ds_e_product_language=en&ds_e_product_channel=online&ds_e_product_store_id=&ds_url_v=2&albcp=20546179873&albag=&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&gad_source=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

Somebody here has to have pulled the trigger on one of these...right?

 

[mike93lx]

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807486683109.html?src=google&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%21520.00%21390.00%21%21%21%21%21%40%2112000041750228958%21ppc%21%21%21&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&albagn=888888&ds_e_adid=&ds_e_matchtype=&ds_e_device=c&ds_e_network=x&ds_e_product_group_id=&ds_e_product_id=en3256807486683109&ds_e_product_merchant_id=507339558&ds_e_product_country=US&ds_e_product_language=en&ds_e_product_channel=online&ds_e_product_store_id=&ds_url_v=2&albcp=20546179873&albag=&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&gad_source=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

Somebody here has to have pulled the trigger on one of these...right?

The $382 price is for just a lens. The machine is 4400

 

[ATC]

***UPDATE*** - just found out that the above unit, although it looks like a professional model is continuous technology, not pulse. I have been told with continuous laser, you run the risk of compromising the material, not just removing rust.

How much compromising are we talking about? Warping sheet metal, or burning through it?
For 1/8" or thicker material (steel), what would it do to that?

 

[zendriver]

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807486683109.html?src=google&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%21520.00%21390.00%21%21%21%21%21%40%2112000041750228958%21ppc%21%21%21&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&albagn=888888&ds_e_adid=&ds_e_matchtype=&ds_e_device=c&ds_e_network=x&ds_e_product_group_id=&ds_e_product_id=en3256807486683109&ds_e_product_merchant_id=507339558&ds_e_product_country=US&ds_e_product_language=en&ds_e_product_channel=online&ds_e_product_store_id=&ds_url_v=2&albcp=20546179873&albag=&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&gad_source=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

Somebody here has to have pulled the trigger on one of these...right?

It's going to have to be somebody else, on that deal. I buy from that site, but there is hokum there to beware of.

Like I stated - someday