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Dealing with asbestos in old homes

toolcollector109

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What is the best website for getting information on dealing with asbestos in older homes? I want to purchase an older home for a variety of reasons, but the presence of potential asbestos is always a worry. The mediation companies make it sound like asbestos is a demon hiding behind every wall and every crevice of an older home. Some guys say that asbestos fears are totally overrated and hyped up to sell remediation services. Is there a go-to middle of the road expert who gives reasoned answers rational answers on this topic, and realistic solutions?

If so, point me in the right direction.
 
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Boogerman

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Don't know about websites, most are at the extreme end as you say, because they're selling services.

In general, there are only a few common sources of asbestos in a home.

1) Occasionally, there is asbestos on the ducts or coal furnace, and the plaster on those is as bad or worse than the asbestos sheets or cloth. This type of asbestos is dangerous, it's both friable and the kind that causes cancer in your lungs. Same goes for the asbestos cloth wrapped around steam pipes. Two approaches here: One, wet remove, use a respirator, wet wipe, HEPA vacuum after wiping to remove all traces. Two, encapsulate in place with plastic wrap, tape, etc. This might be the place for professionals, not do it yourself.
2) Hard sheets as fireproofing around woodstoves, behind heaters, etc. This kind is not very dangerous, as long as you don't grind it up and inhale it. You can spray it with a mist of water, remove it, and then wet wipe up any dust, followed by vacuuming with a machine with a HEPA filter. Easy, limited do it yourself.
3) Asbestos containing floor tiles. This is overblown, those are totally innocuous, they're even hard to grind up and inhale. Just don't remove them. Or, if you do, reasonable precautions to not grind them up and inhale.
4) Asbestos siding. Same as hard sheets, don't grind up and inhale. If you remove, wear a respirator while working with and transporting. Dispose of in plastic bags, at an approved asbestos landfill, or your local landfill may allow them in the construction debris with documentation and plastic bags. Check with them.
5) Popcorn ceilings with asbestos. Again, not real dangerous, remove wet and use a mask.
6) Occasional occurrence anywhere where heat was a concern. Seals on fireplaces, furnaces, stoves, etc. Sometimes in old electric heating appliances. Case by case basis, again, wet to keep down dust, respirator, don't grind, clean up thoroughly.
7) Incidental ingredient in plaster, patching compounds, etc. Anytime you remove something like this, do it wet if you can to keep down dust, wear a respirator, clean up well preferably by wet wiping and HEPA vacuum. In reality, I'd use much the same protection against inhaling plaster dust as I would asbestos for these items anyway.

I worked on friable asbestos for 7 years before the dangers were exposed. Luckily, I haven't developed associated lung problems. I'm cautious working around it, but handle it routinely when I need to. In a house I'm purchasing, I don't ask sellers to remove it, I'm more afraid of them creating dust they don't clean up that I'll be exposed to later, than I am of being exposed to it removing it myself.

I see asbestos in a home as not a huge detriment, I usually look for it in my inspection, disclose it in my offer to buy, specify that I don't want the seller disturbing it, and ask for a reasonable price concession to remove it myself as condition of the sale. I feel the same about remediation companies, I'm skeptical sometimes that they clean it up well and don't create and leave/spread dust. Remediation techs are like lube techs; often they're low skill entry level laborers who haven't learned yet to get jobs that don't expose them to health problems.
 

jack stand

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I believe that there's basically 2 forms in older residential construction. The bad stuff is the very loose pipe insulation that crumbles easily. The other is hard and doesn't really become airborne simply handling it. Mainly I'm speaking of asbestos siding, that the last time I checked was even accepted at the regular landfill as construction debris. If you bought an old house with asbestos siding that is in good shape I'd keep it.
It paints well and the fact that it's still performing well speaks for itself. It's an early predecessor to today's Hardly cement, only better. The downside is it's (usually) wide exposure that can be 10" or more, then it often has a wavy - slightly scalloped lower edge than really dates the appearance. But then it's on an old house and appropriate.
It's probably good advice to talk with the local building department and maybe real estate people for decision making. These days keeping $20k off of the costs and sales price is something that I'd sure consider.
I'll defer to @Boogerman 's excellent response. 👍
 

CoogarXR

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My current house has asbestos siding. It's actually a great product if you can tolerate how it looks. I personally don't care for the looks of it, but I'm kinda stuck with it. But on the positive side, it insulates well, it holds the paint way longer than wood siding, it's fireproof, no worries about woodpeckers, etc. It has a lot of good qualities. Plus, it's on the outside of the house, so it's not like it's ever going to contaminate the inside of the place. Whenever I have a damaged tile, I just replace it with plexiglass. I scuff it up with sandpaper and paint it, it looks just the same as an asbestos tile.

Asbestos isn't really a big deal anywhere unless you need to get rid of it. Then you pay the fiddler.
 

The Cobbler

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asbestos danger is real, it either kills you or it doesn't affect you . there's no in between .
@Boogerman probably covered everything I would have to say . I am level 1 certified asbestos removal , I had to get that for one of the customers I did a ton of work for .
Any home up until around Y2K will have asbestos in some form . My home was built in 1950 ish, I have self removed some asbestos wrap on ductwork etc . I know it has asbestos in the plaster and original kitchen flooring but I don;t really worry about it.
I have been exposed to a lot of it over my working careers in home renovations , so far no signs of any harm. hopefully I get another 20 years with no ill effect
 

pcmeiners

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Asbestos siding is friable, it is as dangerous as the "loose stuff", as it is near impossible to remove the siding without breaking a good amount of it, plaster mixed with asbestos is almost as bad; if you can see fibers it is friable. For asbestos to be relatively safe it must be mix with materials which directly attaches (soak into) to the fibers such as rubber or vinyl or paint.

As to the Federal law, a homeowner you can remove it. Depending on your state and local municipality there may be removal and disposal restrictions. Some home sale agreements place the asbestos liability on the original owner or the seller, including disposal issues, be careful you don't have that clause in your sales agreement when you go to sell. Ran a school building, newly built in 1983, but I still had to test the walls, floors and anything which could possible have asbestos .

That said I removed asbestos from my homes steam pipe and boiler myself. Aside from having any possible sources thoroughly wet, removed by hand, I used a pressure washer to removed the last remains from the piping and the cement floor. Masked up, used disposable old cloths.

As to how dangerous...
The world trade center buildings were sprayed top to bottom with it, 300-400 tons of it. It was spread over a 1/3 of Manhattan, and a large part of Brooklyn on 911; actually it was spread over 1/3 of Manhattan during the WTC construction, it snowed asbestos as you walked in the areas for over a year.
Basically every ship built before the 60s had it, every school build, hospital, municipal building had it, water supply utilities filtered water with it, orange juice was filtered with it. It was used everywhere.
Are people dying like fly from it, no, but I am sure asbestos miners and insulation/siding applicator are. Another few sources of the killer material ... attic insulation, boiler flues piping (behind walls), Sheetrock and compound (before the late 70s), floor/roof underlayment paper.

The next threat will be fiberglass.
 

theoldwizard1

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3) Asbestos containing floor tiles. This is overblown, those are totally innocuous, they're even hard to grind up and inhale. Just don't remove them. Or, if you do, reasonable precautions to not grind them up and inhale.
This is probably the MOST COMMON place you will find asbestos ! Millions of homes in the 50s and 60s had tiles with asbestos installed on basement floors The safest thing to do is put anotpher floor over the top, not glued to the old tile.

If you really want to remove it, use a method that makes the least amount of small particles. Wear a good mask. Do NOT USE A VACUUM ! Shower and was your clothes separately. I have done this twice and I am still alive ! I worse thing is getting rid of the black "cut-back" adhesive !!

Only one product will loosen it, Sentinel 747. Apply in to a small (3x3) area. Let sit for at least 30 minutes. Wipe up with paper towels. Stuff putty knife may help. It will probably take 2 or 3 applications, but it does work !
 
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pcmeiners

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"Asbestos containing floor tiles. This is overblown, those are totally innocuous, they're even hard to grind up and inhale"

Not as dangerous as friable asbestos, but they are not innocuous, not difficult to grind even kiddy shoes will grind them down.

NYC agency absurdity.....

Ran a school building in Brooklyn NY, part of my job was being an asbestos manager. City preschool program forced us to put sand boxes in the class rooms, after informing them the floor tiles had asbestos in them. Though encapsulated in the tile the asbestos still was in the dust created due to the tiles being ground down by shoes; in six months 1/3 of the tile depth around the sandboxes was ground down. Just image having sand boxes in classrooms so kids can breath asbestos. Stupid city agency managers.
 
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john.k

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On telly news ,a big deal because the phone co has asbestos cement pits in the streets .......massive beat up by the young jerk reporter ,and a woman crying about the 'menace' of a broken pit ............In the background you can see this woman lives in an asbestos house ........they are called 'fibro shacks' here ....... a low cost small house sheeted in asbestos cement sheeting...........the government built millions of them to fix the post WW2 housing shortages.
 

BombShelter

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Some cities have a recommended removal procedure for asbestos tiles, basically wet it down during removal. You should be able to find PDF's online. Personnally I've done this method and then followed up with Bean-e-doo to get the mastic. The Bean-e-doo kind of works but it still wasn't easy to get all of it.

 

jjblbi

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I managed facilities on a university level for 25+ years before retiring. Our environmental health group managed asbestos removal once we encountered it. Don't mess around! Get a registered, licensed and insured abatement contractor.
If you are bidding on a house get a couple of asbestos removal estimates. Subtract the cost of the estimate from your bid and share with the seller and selling agent. For NJ (and I think PA) the selling agent must then disclose the presence of asbestos to all bidders and you won't be at a disadvantage.
 

Hilltopmasonry

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We just had vermiculite removed from our attic

We are in the process of filling out the paperwork to get reimbursed from the trust fund

It’s nice to get that **** out of there
 

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Whitworth

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Anyone who grew up in the snow belt and went to school in the 1950's-60's and 70's and into the 80's was exposed to that stuff.

Thick, crumbly decaying layers wrapped around all the pipes, kids would peel the cloth wrapping off the insulation for fun. They'd bang on the pipes leading to the radiators and big clouds of white dust would come out.

We should all be dead.
 
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reader2580

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Asbestos in a house isn't necessarily the end of the world if you don't plan to do any remodeling that requires removing/modifying asbestos bearing materials. In Minnesota a homeowner can remove their own asbestos flooring. Not sure about other asbestos.

I looked at a 1960s house that had asbestos floor tiles, and probably asbestos in the drywall too. It needed a total gut remodeling. The asbestos was a reason not to buy, but maybe not the main one. Hacks had worked on the house. The water heater had 3/8" copper tubing (not pipe) going to it, and the bathtub had a "trap" made of irrigation pipe and fittings. There was a flat roof addition that needed to be torn down due to badly leaking roof. It had a single car basement garage with stairs that were basically a ladder. HVAC needed replacement.

Whoever was selling the house had added a deck all the way around the house, and painted the stucco. They made it look good on the outside, but didn't touch the real issues. I heard it got sold to a landlord who was going to rent it out. I hope the landlord did at least basic repairs before renting it out.
 

reader2580

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Asbestos can kill even if someone never worked with it. A co-worker of mine worked remotely in Utah long before COVID. He had lived near an asbestos mine in his youth and asbestos containing material was stored in huge uncovered piles at the mine so asbestos blew around with the wind. He died in his late 40s of a cancer that typically is caused only by asbestos exposure.
 

rsanter

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Asbestos can be a real hazard.
How bad is partly depends on what kind it is. Loose stuff is really bad as it gets airborne. Solid/compressed like in flooring or insulated panels is not as bad unless you break/fragment it.

There are two way to deal with it, encasement and removal.
Encasement prevents the fibers from getting airborne, but if you ever go and have work done again they can become an issue at that time.
Removal get it out but depending on how good they control and handle the material, they can put lots of the fibers airborne that will then get into and on everything and be future contamination in the house.
The most common way they deal with it is to wet it to reduce/prevent it from getting airborne and filtration where they filter the air in the house to grab up any fibers that get loose. They will test the filters to see what they are catching.

On a side note, the ‘snow’ that used to be used in the movies back in the day (30s-40s- to who knows) was loose asbestos.
 

BurtEggley

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why would anyone pay the Seller of a property to remove their problem asbestos and lead? Make it a condition of the purchase or walk away. Same for Lead. Think about it. "Hey ma, let's find someone who will pay us full price on the house like that home down the street that was completely remodeled and cleaned up, and then they can pay even more to remove all the asbestos and lead. Heck, we can leave the old rusty oil tank in the back yard, and dry rotted roof too." Would you buy a rusty old classic car that needed restoration at the same price you would pay for one after a bonafide 10 point restoration? Have asbestos testing from a certified abatement lab a condition of the sale. Test for led and radon too. You are doing a quality home inspection aren't you, and not just from a buddy of the realtor?
 

pbon

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why would anyone pay the Seller of a property to remove their problem asbestos and lead? Make it a condition of the purchase or walk away. Same for Lead. Think about it. "Hey ma, let's find someone who will pay us full price on the house like that home down the street that was completely remodeled and cleaned up, and then they can pay even more to remove all the asbestos and lead. Heck, we can leave the old rusty oil tank in the back yard, and dry rotted roof too." Would you buy a rusty old classic car that needed restoration at the same price you would pay for one after a bonafide 10 point restoration? Have asbestos testing from a certified abatement lab a condition of the sale. Test for led and radon too. You are doing a quality home inspection aren't you, and not just from a buddy of the realtor?
Housing market is still pretty tight in parts of the country. Some areas you pretty much have to pay above asking price, pay in cash, and waive inspection (you can do it, but whatever you find is on you). In these places, if you want the house, you can fix what you don’t like or someone else will buy it and you might not find another house there that you like (apart from the stuff that needs fixing).

I self-remediated asbestos pipe covering in the basement of one house that I lived in before I sold it. I did pay for proper disposal. On a commercial property, I paid for professional lead and asbestos abatement because I wanted the property and the sellers were not going to do it, but I did negotiate a lower sales price that paid nearly all of that cost — which was over $200k.
 

Kaizen

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OP how old is the actual house you are looking at? My 120 year old home only had one exterior wall with asbestos white siding. No pipe insulation at all, no drywall/mud as it was all lathe and horse hair plaster, none in the wood flooring or several layers of linoleum floors.
Don't mortage companies make it get removed if it shows on the inspection? Educate yourself and use your head. In my area i'm more worried about radon which is also required to be remediated now.
 

Stuart in MN

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Asbestos can kill even if someone never worked with it. A co-worker of mine worked remotely in Utah long before COVID. He had lived near an asbestos mine in his youth and asbestos containing material was stored in huge uncovered piles at the mine so asbestos blew around with the wind. He died in his late 40s of a cancer that typically is caused only by asbestos exposure.
It can take years for exposure can cause problems. I had an aunt who was a welder in a shipyard during WWII. A lot of her work involved crawling into tight spaces inside the hulls on top of asbestos insulation; she died of cancer related issues in the 1970s. That was an extreme case of course, and not really relevant to a homeowner who may have some asbestos in their house.
 

75gmck25

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Don't forget that one totally legal and acceptable solution for some asbestos abatement is to just leave it in place and encapsulate it.

We paid a licensed contractor to remove the 9" tile and cut-back adhesive on our basement floor because we wanted to keep max headroom. However, there were also other approved methods that would have just sealed the existing tile and laid another floor (wood, tile, etc.) right on top of it.

All of our tile removal was performed with a system that kept the tile and adhesive wet all the time, and then the debris and slurry was vacuumed up with a big wet vacuum. They did not use any petroleum based cleaners, and it dried very quickly, so we could paint it with concrete paint within a few hours. It ended up a murky grey color that was very easy to cover with standard concrete paint.
 

barnym17

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All I can say as one who has asbestosis is be careful please.so far no cancer as it has nodules or something like that encasing it but it is no fun waiting for the axe to fall.
 

BroncoAZ

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As to how dangerous...
The world trade center buildings were sprayed top to bottom with it, 300-400 tons of it. It was spread over a 1/3 of Manhattan, and a large part of Brooklyn on 911; actually it was spread over 1/3 of Manhattan during the WTC construction, it snowed asbestos as you walked in the areas for over a year.

My mother died in 2024 from lung cancer the doctor said was related to asbestos exposure. She worked as a teacher in NY in the 1960’s and 1970’s, then in AZ through the 1980’s and 1990’s. After 9/11/01 she was working for the state department and FBI, spending much of 2002-2004 in NYC and staying at the Millennium Hilton overlooking Ground Zero. If anyone has any direct experience with any of the larger asbestos ambulance chaser law firms please PM me.
 

pcmeiners

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My mother died in 2024 from lung cancer the doctor said was related to asbestos exposure.

World Trade Center Victim Fund.....for this you do not need a lawyer (lawyer get 10% I believe, for not much work if you hire them), each person/or person's estate who had almost any form of cancer (any form of lung cancer), who was in the area (for a very short time) is entitled to a minimum of $260k. You will need doctor's medical records, employment records. Then there is a separate asbestos civil lawsuit claim, but I do not know how it works.

 

PoorUB

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Anyone who grew up in the snow belt and went to school in the 1950's-60's and 70's and into the 80's was exposed to that stuff.

Thick, crumbly decaying layers wrapped around all the pipes, kids would peel the cloth wrapping off the insulation for fun. They'd bang on the pipes leading to the radiators and big clouds of white dust would come out.

We should all be dead.
I went to high school in a building that originated in the 1800's and was added on to many times. There was a stairway where the ceiling was falling apart. Of course guys had to jump up and tear of pieces every time they went down the stairway. There was always dust and broken pieces of plaster on the floor. This went on for a few years. Right after I graduated that building was locked up and no access was allowed and a couple years later it was torn down. The school district explained the reason why was all the asbestos in the building and went on to explain it was in the plaster, insulation, floor tile and other places.
 

BobnCO

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Alot already said, in residences it is easy to test drywall/suspected flooring etc. I collect and send in my own samples. Most is best managed in place. Like others here I have done my own floor tile etc. Heck I was happy when it was “correct” to leave the old VCT down and go over it! If your going to demo walls test various areas (areas with likely differing ages). Some people get a little hysterical, but it is simply another basic challenge (and fact of life) in residential construction. The process is not magic; just fairly common dust control and washing things down..

Now for the story that will make 1/2 the posters heads explode 🤯 . My sons and i had a small company that did small remodelling projects at a university, the city etc. Wanted to set up negative air dust control; my son bought a couple of big “negative air machines” that pull out the air through HEPA filters and sends clean exhaust outside via temp flex duct. (Wait for it.. ) When he got them home they were all covered in plastic and taped up… yup I assume full of asbestos!!! 🙄 I mitigated them myself effectively to spec (asbestos cleaning and disposal procedures for fans).. I still have one! They’re great during any dusty work!! Cough cough..
 

billspit

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. Wanted to set up negative air dust control; my son bought a couple of big “negative air machines” that pull out the air through HEPA filters and sends clean exhaust outside via temp flex duct. (Wait for it.. ) When he got them home they were all covered in plastic and taped up… yup I assume full of asbestos!!! 🙄 I mitigated them myself effectively to spec (asbestos cleaning and disposal procedures for fans).. I still have one! They’re great during any dusty work!! Cough cough..
That is how negative air machine are handled when moved from job to job. Usually only the dirty side is polyed. The machines need to be cleaned inside a containment under negative air.
 
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