xTool MetalFab Laser welder & cutter?

[Ryan]

I’ve got a fresh relationship with xTool if you will... In fact, I’m expecting a CO2 laser to land on my doorstep any day now, humming with power and potential. But while sniffing around their catalog, I stumbled onto something that stopped me cold:

https://www.xtool.com/pages/xtool-metalfab-presale

I’m no stranger to welding. I’ve burned my fair share of metal with both MIG and TIG setups... But this? Laser welding and cutting, aimed at home shops? That’s new terrain. This isn’t some industrial monster locked behind OSHA doors—this is a clean, surgical death ray for your garage.

And if this isn't just marketing hype—this machine could really change some things. No fumes, no sunburns, no buzz of chaos. Just precision. Control. Clean, godlike welds and razor-cut steel from a machine that supposedly takes fifteen minutes to master. Fifteen. Hell, I’ve spent longer figuring out how to un-jam my office printer. And there’s YouTube footage to prove it: amateurs stacking perfect dimes like seasoned pipe welders on government jobs.

Starts at five grand for the 800W setup and climbs to $14K for the full-blown 1200W war machine. That’s a lot of coin for thin stock work, no doubt—but xTool has a reputation for delivering solid gear, and I’m inclined to believe there’s some meat on this bone.

The CNC angle only makes it more tempting. One machine to weld, cut, and possibly dominate the known universe with minimal setup time and less mental wear and tear? Sounds like the future… or at least a damn fine way to avoid grinding welds at 2 a.m. with whiskey breath and bloodshot eyes.

So I’m throwing it out there—any of you grizzled welders have hands-on experience with laser welding? Is this thing the revolution being promised?

Either way, I’m interested. Wildly. Let’s hear it.

 

[gtae07]

...
I want one.

I have no use for it right now.
I don't know what I'd do with it.
But I want one.

 

[Ryan]

...
I want one.

I have no use for it right now.
I don't know what I'd do with it.
But I want one.

I’m maddeningly curious—itching to get my hands on one of these things just to see if it lives up to the hype or if it’s another beautifully packaged hallucination. Every video I’ve seen reeks of a late-night 90s infomercial— YouTube personalities in home offices, wielding laser welders like they’ve been trained by goddamn NASA, spitting technical jargon after ten minutes of practice like they’ve just come down from the mountaintop.

It can’t be that good… or maybe it is. Maybe we’ve finally crossed the threshold into the age of sorcery disguised as tech. I need to know.

 

[LXCam]

Well thanks for that rabbit hole Ryan, now I want one. But I’d really like to hear Pat’s @4 FN 27 input since he’s our resident subject expert.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Interesting to see new welders hitting the market.

I was just thinking that Miller, Hobart and Lincoln are probably going to get left out in the near future except for the industrial guys.

I see not much on Lincoln, local or online. Hobart has one rendition of Tig welder available and Miller has about priced themselves out of the home shop/DIYer garage market.

I'm constantly seeing brands like Arccaptain getting exposure on more than one YouTube channel. These aren't home shop but actual Fab and Repair shops. Sending a YouTuber a welder and let them do a honest opinion video is like "word of mouth" advertising. It's also a permanent commercial that will be around for years, not a monthly magazine ad tossed in the trash or TV spot...30 seconds and gone.


Hopefully you get a video of it getting used. I'd be curious.

 

[KwikFab]

A bit pricey considering the small working area and low power.

 

[dr_clyde]

We demo-ed Miller’s new laser welder the OptX at work the other day.

It is a very cool tool, but the technology needs more time to mature.

It was also almost $50k, and that makes me seriously wonder what corners are being cut in a HUGE way to make this laser as cheap as it is.

Lasers are DANGEROUS if used improperly and can seriously mess up your eyes. Way, way more than just a regular welder. I would be nervous to use this around others given what I know about industrial lasers.

I also know that the joint design and material selection plays a major part in successful welds with a laser, much more so than with an arc welder. You can’t really use a laser welder to fill gaps, weld rusty or corroded metals, or do most repair work. They’re designed to be used on fresh, clean metal that’s been fit up correctly.

Welding is also more than just pulling a trigger. You still need to know about joint design, filler selection, metallurgy, and all the other skills you need with arc welding. Just having this machine doesn’t short cut the knowledge required to set up a welded joint correctly.

Having also spent considerable time around real industrial laser cutters, I think people are in for a rude awakening when they find out how much skill is actually needed to use a laser and get the results they advertise.

We just took delivery of a 10k watt Mitsubishi fiber at work and even with a machine as powerful and well made as that Mits, running a laser takes skill and know how to get good cuts. It’s not just plug and play. Nozzles, feeds and speeds, gases and pressures, material knowledge, scrap and dross management, nesting software, CAD design that works with the laser, the list goes on. If cheap lasers worked as well as the big players, we wouldn’t be spending hundreds of thousands or millions on the ones we have.

I think laser welding and inexpensive cutters will be a huge player in the future, but I think it needs a few more years to get there. Look at what the last 10 years has done for 3D printing.

If it’s a free sample, go for it. I would. But if I had to put my money on the line, I’d wait a few years and watch closely.

 

[Ryan]

We demo-ed Miller’s new laser welder the OptX at work the other day.

It is a very cool tool, but the technology needs more time to mature.

It was also almost $50k, and that makes me seriously wonder what corners are being cut in a HUGE way to make this laser as cheap as it is.

Lasers are DANGEROUS if used improperly and can seriously mess up your eyes. Way, way more than just a regular welder. I would be nervous to use this around others given what I know about industrial lasers.

I also know that the joint design and material selection plays a major part in successful welds with a laser, much more so than with an arc welder. You can’t really use a laser welder to fill gaps, weld rusty or corroded metals, or do most repair work. They’re designed to be used on fresh, clean metal that’s been fit up correctly.

Welding is also more than just pulling a trigger. You still need to know about joint design, filler selection, metallurgy, and all the other skills you need with arc welding. Just having this machine doesn’t short cut the knowledge required to set up a welded joint correctly.

Having also spent considerable time around real industrial laser cutters, I think people are in for a rude awakening when they find out how much skill is actually needed to use a laser and get the results they advertise.

We just took delivery of a 10k watt Mitsubishi fiber at work and even with a machine as powerful and well made as that Mits, running a laser takes skill and know how to get good cuts. It’s not just plug and play. Nozzles, feeds and speeds, gases and pressures, material knowledge, scrap and dross management, nesting software, CAD design that works with the laser, the list goes on. If cheap lasers worked as well as the big players, we wouldn’t be spending hundreds of thousands or millions on the ones we have.

I think laser welding and inexpensive cutters will be a huge player in the future, but I think it needs a few more years to get there. Look at what the last 10 years has done for 3D printing.

If it’s a free sample, go for it. I would. But if I had to put my money on the line, I’d wait a few years and watch closely.

You could absolutely be right and probably are, but…

Remember a couple of years ago when the 3D print market was basically slow consumer level machines that took constant maintenance to get prints and slightly faster industrial models that also took a lot of maintenance? Then, a Chinese company comes out of nowhere and blows the market up? On paper, the X1C was certainly ground breaking… but not as ground breaking as it actually became despite the TOS abuse…

I have a weird feeling this machine might be the start of something. I really want to mess with it.

 

[Cruzan80]

Is this related to the Fab-bot lasers, or just a similarity in name?

 

[dr_clyde]

You could absolutely be right and probably are, but…

Remember a couple of years ago when the 3D print market was basically slow consumer level machines that took constant maintenance to get prints and slightly faster industrial models that also took a lot of maintenance? Then, a Chinese company comes out of nowhere and blows the market up? On paper, the X1C was certainly ground breaking… but not as ground breaking as it actually became despite the TOS abuse…

I have a weird feeling this machine might be the start of something. I really want to mess with it.

Oh the future is for sure going to include laser welders for the home shop.

I just think we’re on the flat part of the growth curve still. I’d rather wait a few years and see how much better they get for less money. Let someone else work the bugs out, because I promise there’s bugs.

 

[y'sguy]

Gee, and I'm still mulling over whether to buy a new hacksaw blade.

 

[Ryan]

Gee, and I'm still mulling over whether to buy a new hacksaw blade.

I’m with you. I can’t afford one… especially given that it’s unproven… but that doesn’t stop me from wanting.

 

[Fixr]

I’m with you. I can’t afford one… especially given that it’s unproven… but that doesn’t stop me from wanting.

Nah, hacksaw blades are getting to be somewhat reliable.

 

[no704]

Have a chicom 1500w. It was about $6k. Our rad safety guy is not a fan. I like it. Have a few appropriate sets of glasses and lots of warning signs and the shop is locked out when it’s in use.

 

[no704]

3/16 Ti. 150w in a motorized spindexer.

 

[dr_clyde]

3/16 Ti. 150w in a motorized spindexer.

The tiny industrial laser welders have a lot more proven track records than the newish handheld units, especially the ones with wire feeders.

Apples and oranges to some degree.

Nice welds tho.

 

[no704]

The tiny industrial laser welders have a lot more proven track records than the newish handheld units, especially the ones with wire feeders.

Apples and oranges to some degree.

Nice welds tho.

That was with a 1500w handheld. I made a bracket to hold the gun.

 

[scooby074]

We demo-ed Miller’s new laser welder the OptX at work the other day.

It is a very cool tool, but the technology needs more time to mature.

It was also almost $50k, and that makes me seriously wonder what corners are being cut in a HUGE way to make this laser as cheap as it is.

Lasers are DANGEROUS if used improperly and can seriously mess up your eyes. Way, way more than just a regular welder. I would be nervous to use this around others given what I know about industrial lasers.

I also know that the joint design and material selection plays a major part in successful welds with a laser, much more so than with an arc welder. You can’t really use a laser welder to fill gaps, weld rusty or corroded metals, or do most repair work. They’re designed to be used on fresh, clean metal that’s been fit up correctly.

Welding is also more than just pulling a trigger. You still need to know about joint design, filler selection, metallurgy, and all the other skills you need with arc welding. Just having this machine doesn’t short cut the knowledge required to set up a welded joint correctly.

Having also spent considerable time around real industrial laser cutters, I think people are in for a rude awakening when they find out how much skill is actually needed to use a laser and get the results they advertise.

We just took delivery of a 10k watt Mitsubishi fiber at work and even with a machine as powerful and well made as that Mits, running a laser takes skill and know how to get good cuts. It’s not just plug and play. Nozzles, feeds and speeds, gases and pressures, material knowledge, scrap and dross management, nesting software, CAD design that works with the laser, the list goes on. If cheap lasers worked as well as the big players, we wouldn’t be spending hundreds of thousands or millions on the ones we have.

I think laser welding and inexpensive cutters will be a huge player in the future, but I think it needs a few more years to get there. Look at what the last 10 years has done for 3D printing.

If it’s a free sample, go for it. I would. But if I had to put my money on the line, I’d wait a few years and watch closely.

Everything above 100%

 

[rocksnstumps]

Interesting to see new welders hitting the market.

I was just thinking that Miller, Hobart and Lincoln are probably going to get left out in the near future except for the industrial guys.

I see not much on Lincoln, local or online. Hobart has one rendition of Tig welder available and Miller has about priced themselves out of the home shop/DIYer garage market.

Miller and Hobart are both ITW brands these days. Hobart is probably more hobbyist focused while Miller is more industrial and priced accordingly.

Did just see a laser welding cutting ad pop up in some feed recently. Think it was under $100. Maybe the PPE costs more than the welder! Not sure if can believe all the demos but sure looked cool

 

[Fixr]

Miller and Hobart are both ITW brands these days. Hobart is probably more hobbyist focused while Miller is more industrial and priced accordingly.

Did just see a laser welding cutting ad pop up in some feed recently. Think it was under $100. Maybe the PPE costs more than the welder! Not sure if can believe all the demos but sure looked cool

Laser welder under $100? What could possibly go wrong?

 

[no704]

No way you are touching one for>_$100. Most inexpensive I’ve seen are $3500. Lots of little inverter sticks being advertised as laser.

 

[no704]

Neatest thing about laser welding is the precise heating. For the small part I showed earlier you can handle the part with bare hands immediately after the weld is finished.

 

[scooby074]

Laser welder under $100? What could possibly go wrong?

Your eyesight.

 

[rocksnstumps]

I didn't say it was a reputable ad. Lol. Likely the video shown was done with equipment in the big $$ category as examples that actually can be done but maybe not with what they will send you.

 

[Ryan]

Neatest thing about laser welding is the precise heating. For the small part I showed earlier you can handle the part with bare hands immediately after the weld is finished.

Question. What’s the physical motion like? I mean, is there any dexterity involved that feels familiar to more traditional means of welding? Or is it a whole new thing?

I heard someone say that laser welding is like drawing with a fine line pen. If you can draw a straight line, you can laser weld.

 

[got2boostit2]

Ugh another toy. Someone refer me.

 

[PugetDude]

I heard someone say that laser welding is like drawing with a fine line pen. If you can draw a straight line, you can laser weld.

I'm out.

 

[Firebrick43]

I maintained and adjusted a laser welding cell that welded on cam phasers to VW camshafts. The phaser was induction heated and pressed on, then was welded to the tube of the cam for security.

The laser itself was a trumpf 2 kw unit. Obviously not handheld. It passed thru three mirrors to the fixture where the welding took place that were very touchy to scratches and contamination. They used high purity argon for the shielding gas. Focal length was very critical as well which makes me skeptical of hand held laser welding

The pulse length as well as power of the laser tube was controlled for depth and shape of the weld puddle. Rotation of the cam/phaser was done on the fixture via a servo.

Also maintained 5 trumpf marking systems that marked serial, part, and QR codes on the cam shafts(lots of daily adjustment to the control software) and another 2 kw trumpf that was used to gouge a 2mm depth slot in connecting rods to crack/fracture the cap from the rod. It used fiberoptic cables to get the beam to where it needed to be and a motorized mirror to direct it to which cable/side it was cutting at the time.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Miller and Hobart are both ITW brands these days. Hobart is probably more hobbyist focused while Miller is more industrial and priced accordingly.

Yes, quite aware. I did a Zoom conference call with several people and Hobart a while back, including one former member here.

It was a focus marketing group and they were given some good advice. I just don't think it was followed through... To me, they are letting the Hobart brand stagnant and focusing on Miller. Entry level people can't buy in on a Miller, generally.

This is where companies like Arccaptain are coming in and going to be a bull in a China shop taking a share of the market.

Now, you have laser welders entering the market. Where will they be in two years ?

If ITW doesn't pull their head of the sandy keyster, they are going to be in for a rude awakening and get left behind.

 

[dr_clyde]

Question. What’s the physical motion like? I mean, is there any dexterity involved that feels familiar to more traditional means of welding? Or is it a whole new thing?

I heard someone say that laser welding is like drawing with a fine line pen. If you can draw a straight line, you can laser weld.

If it’s a wire feed like the OptX, the wire sets your travel speed and you let it push you along the joint.

If you have everything set up correctly, it’s basically just allowing the gun to move along in a straight line. There is no manipulation or traditional “whip and pause” or weave.

It does require you to have an optimal joint for this. No irregular fitup, no holes or big gaps.

But if you have it set up correctly, it’s very simple to do. Anyone can do it. That’s one of their selling points, you don’t need someone trained in traditional mig or tig. Just someone who knows how to set the machine up and design the weldment correctly for the operator.

 

[dr_clyde]

One of our welders tried to fight the machine to some degree, use it like a mig welder, and his laser welds were trash. If you let the machine do what it’s supposed to, it pretty much does the work with you just holding the gun at the right angle and holding it to the metal.

 

[4 FN 27]

Well thanks for that rabbit hole Ryan, now I want one. But I’d really like to hear Pat’s @4 FN 27 input since he’s our resident subject expert.

Using the term expert...well...I pass the hat on this one. @dr_clyde, based his writing here is a little closer to Laser Welding than I, and has pretty much covered all the bases and then some. Not much I can add to his observations and facts.

I will say as @dr_clyde mentions, safety!!! It is my biggest concern. Technically the welder needs to be in a room with interlocks on the doors where if opened the welder shuts down. Direct, reflected and invisible light emitted by the process can immediately and permanently damage your eyes. The infrastructure done correctly will be costly, take up space and create new positions with in the company that need to justified for an ROI.

It has been a while since I looked up the guidance OSHA follows; Standard ANSI Z136.1. Take the time to look it up.

To the home/hobbyist user, safety may not be a concern but I really don't want see a "Show us you blind shop dog" thread.

Welding equipment is at a pivot point in time. Not sure if it due to the old school welders who can run a Welding Rig just like a Rotary Dial Phone are retiring and the "it's gotta have a touch screen like my phone" are taking over? Kind of the way it is with Press Brake Interfaces now and off-line programming.

We just went through a welding "upgrade" so to speak. It was frustrating to me...and I mean frustrating/painful. A sales guy came in and made the claim he had a MIG Welder that could replace all of our TIG Welders. Those who don't own a welding helmet jump right on these words blinded by hope of a faster process. Those of us who do own a welding helmet and weld come up with 100+ vetting questions based on our experience of doing both and the differences.

I parallel Laser Welding to this claim of replacing all of the TIG Welders with a new MIG Technology. Don't get me wrong I believe Laser Welders will have a niche in the Welding Arena just like that new MIG Technology. However you need to know if applies to you and hands on is the only way to find out in a real world situation.

My observations on the youtube videos, not the videos provided by Miller, Lincoln and the rest, the real world users. The guys doing the cut polish and etch visual inspection, the welds have great penetration and for the most part consistency. I am impressed. But I start to think how would I Laser Weld a tube under the dash of a race car while laying upside down with the Lens from my Helmet duct taped to my forehead using the "let the wire push it" method while holding the torch at the correct angle.

This is one of the Technologies I dig into on occasion just to keep up.

Thank you to those of you proclaiming me as an expert. While flattered, I see myself as sharing my experience and knowledge. Experience + knowledge = that infinitely small point in space know as wisdom. There is a lot of wisdom here in the bowels of GJ provided by many. The wise absorb and apply and then pass it along.

 

[T444e]

Laser welder under $100? What could possibly go wrong?

What could possibly go right? Is my question at that price.

 

[Ryan]

Using the term expert...well...I pass the hat on this one. @dr_clyde, based his writing here is a little closer to Laser Welding than I, and has pretty much covered all the bases and then some. Not much I can add to his observations and facts.

I will say as @dr_clyde mentions, safety!!! It is my biggest concern. Technically the welder needs to be in a room with interlocks on the doors where if opened the welder shuts down. Direct, reflected and invisible light emitted by the process can immediately and permanently damage your eyes. The infrastructure done correctly will be costly, take up space and create new positions with in the company that need to justified for an ROI.

It has been a while since I looked up the guidance OSHA follows; Standard ANSI Z136.1. Take the time to look it up.

To the home/hobbyist user, safety may not be a concern but I really don't want see a "Show us you blind shop dog" thread.

Welding equipment is at a pivot point in time. Not sure if it due to the old school welders who can run a Welding Rig just like a Rotary Dial Phone are retiring and the "it's gotta have a touch screen like my phone" are taking over? Kind of the way it is with Press Brake Interfaces now and off-line programming.

We just went through a welding "upgrade" so to speak. It was frustrating to me...and I mean frustrating/painful. A sales guy came in and made the claim he had a MIG Welder that could replace all of our TIG Welders. Those who don't own a welding helmet jump right on these words blinded by hope of a faster process. Those of us who do own a welding helmet and weld come up with 100+ vetting questions based on our experience of doing both and the differences.

I parallel Laser Welding to this claim of replacing all of the TIG Welders with a new MIG Technology. Don't get me wrong I believe Laser Welders will have a niche in the Welding Arena just like that new MIG Technology. However you need to know if applies to you and hands on is the only way to find out in a real world situation.

My observations on the youtube videos, not the videos provided by Miller, Lincoln and the rest, the real world users. The guys doing the cut polish and etch visual inspection, the welds have great penetration and for the most part consistency. I am impressed. But I start to think how would I Laser Weld a tube under the dash of a race car while laying upside down with the Lens from my Helmet duct taped to my forehead using the "let the wire push it" method while holding the torch at the correct angle.

This is one of the Technologies I dig into on occasion just to keep up.

Thank you to those of you proclaiming me as an expert. While flattered, I see myself as sharing my experience and knowledge. Experience + knowledge = that infinitely small point in space know as wisdom. There is a lot of wisdom here in the bowels of GJ provided by many. The wise absorb and apply and then pass it along.

Valuable insight is gold.

What could possibly go right? Is my question at that price.

As stated earlier, that was a typo by another user.

 

[dr_clyde]

Pat, I’m far from an expert, I just have used a laser welder a little bit and work around powerful industrial laser cutters every day.

Most people severely underestimate how dangerous lasers are and how different they are from arc welders and think just safety glasses is good enough. Very wrong. They require far more protection and safety than just about any other tool I’ve ever seen, barring seriously toxic chemicals.

I have done quite a bit of welding in my career at this point, between running my own shop and managing others and I’m just not convinced these handheld lasers are worth it yet for the home shop. The shop I work at has 8 full time welders fabricating sheet metal and structural weldments and we could only really justify a laser welder for maybe 10% of our total work.

They’re just so expensive and so narrow use at this point in time.

I want to know what this $4k unit is missing to explain the MASSIVE price difference between the IPG and Miller units at over $30k. Something HAS to be missing or severely cheapened. I know the Miller feeder is like, $8k. But beyond that I have no idea. The miller rep told me just the fiber optics in the gun cable were like, $5k and to not allow them to get crushed or damaged as they can’t just be swapped out like a MIG liner. That’s more than the cost of the entire machine Ryan is asking about for JUST the gun.

 

[Firebrick43]

I will say as @dr_clyde mentions, safety!!! It is my biggest concern. Technically the welder needs to be in a room with interlocks on the doors where if opened the welder shuts down. Direct, reflected and invisible light emitted by the process can immediately and permanently damage your eyes. The infrastructure done correctly will be costly, take up space and create new positions with in the company that need to justified for an ROI.

It has been a while since I looked up the guidance OSHA follows; Standard ANSI Z136.1. Take the time to look it up.

To the home/hobbyist user, safety may not be a concern but I really don't want see a "Show us you blind shop dog" thread.

+1

All the laser welding equipment I worked on was fully enclosed and safety switches on the panels. If we bypassed them to do setup we had to clear the area on post lookout to keep anyone from wondering in the area. Any one in the area was wearing the glasses.

Even safety interlocks are not fool proof

When I was a young Lcpl in the marines one pitch black night I was on the tow crew driving the tug at a CAX exercise in 29 stumps.



The AH-1W super cobras 20mm gatling gun laser (red arrow) has a fairly low power (no where near welding power or even catching paper on fire like the main targeting laser would, blue arrow) IR laser for the pilots to see where the gun is pointing thru their night vision googles.

This gun/laser is pointing at the back of the tug drivers head. As the rest of the crew was attaching the wheels to the skids one member flipped the main power switch and lights for towing at night. As i was looking back I kept seeing this faint glow in one particular spot and couldn't figure out what it was but finally dawned on me that it was the laser.

I reported it as you were supposed to and the Warrant officer in the avionics shop told me that there was no way I could see that laser as it wasn't visible and it was impossible for it to be on as the skid tubes had safety switches that disarm it when they are sprung due to weight.

So instead of getting some NVG's to check he marches out to the Cobra and proceeds to look directly into the lasers path. He jumps back and says exclaims that it was on and you could faintly see it. The safety switches had been mis wired at the last depot maintenance and the laser was on any time the main power was on.

The next day (and every few weeks after) have our eyes checked by an optometrist that specialized in cases of being lased. Luckily I had very little burning on my retina that all healed. The doctor thought that the plate glass on the cab of the tug deflected enough of it to minimize the damage. The Warrant Officer had permanent scaring on his retina and lost acuity in his vision unfortunately.

I don't know if it was true (he wasn't one to BS) but some of our Gunny was a young plane captain when the Marines first received the Night targeting system upgrades to the Super cobra in 93 or 94. He told me several people were blinded when pilots on the ground were familiarizing themselves with the main targeting laser/range finder including a motorist that was driving on the far side of the airfield as they were following his car as a target.

 

[LopezBart]

I know someone who was blinded completely in one eye and mostly in the other by a misdirected laser beam 50+ yards away, and that was not a laser welder - it was part of an laser art display with far less power. These things are nothing to mess with casually.

 

[Beerhippie]

Would you all just quit disturbing my dreams and fantasies with well reasoned and rational, fact-based discussions?

 

[Fixr]

What could possibly go right? Is my question at that price.

Two different ways of saying the same thing?

 

[Firebrick43]

I am surprised YouTube doesn’t get sued for knowingly allowing false advertising on its platform?

The “$100 dollar laser welders” they advertise by showing an actual laser akin to a machine like Ryan posted turns a cheap stick welder if you go to the link.