Lifting South Bend Fourteen?

[karoc]

Guys at end next week I’ll be loading up this lathe onto U Haul trailer taking it to its new home. It weighs in at around 1600 lbs which most weigh is at headstock. I have some endless lifting straps rated at 2600lbs so I’m thinking one at each end between ways of bed with a 1” shaft stuck inside loop of straps. But I’m concern that it’s still not going be balance with strap at tailstock and at headstock. Wondering if maybe putting piece of pipe into spindle sticking out both ends of spindle to loop ******** both ends of pipe. Any thoughts how you would handle this? I have gantry crane to do lifting, it’s just lifting and keeping it close being balance without tipping over.

 

[paulsomlo]

I wouldn't lift it by the spindle, straps around the bed sounds best. And I wouldn't try lifting it very high, either - it's already on a pallet; if you can use a pallet jack to get it onto a drop deck trailer, I think that might be safest. I moved a 1200 lb. lathe recently - we used an engine hoist to lift it just high enough to get a dolly under each end, then rolled it up onto a drop deck trailer.

 

[Ecosta777]

DO NOT put a shaft through the spindle and lift it that way.

Move the carriage and tailstock as far as you can to the end of the bed to help offset the headstock weight. Choker or loop the straps around the bed at each end taking care they are not pressing on the leadscrew, do not use pipes. If it shifts at all its possible the pipes may slip to one end of the bed and you will lose it. It will lift slightly off balance but it will be close enough to be stable.

Good luck! Ive been looking for one of those machines for a while and havent had any luck, theyre great lathes!

 

[RoninB4]

-Another vote for DO NOT lift through the spindle, the bearings aren't up to that sort of load and will be expensive to replace.

-What sort of trailer will you be using? Will a platform lift trailer work for you? It helped me when I moved the shop.

- Lift by the bed only and no strap touching the lead screw at all during loading or transit. Lathes are top heavy when mounted on a cabinet and the possibility of tip-over is considerable. Great care is going to be needed to ensure it remains vertical during all phases of loading, transport, and unloading. Separating the lathe from the cabinet would be a safer bet unless the gantry can be used for load/unload. I've a slightly smaller lathe (Weiler) but I used my gantry for the move with no trouble. Belts with a spreader bar is highly advised because once the belts start to shift there's little chance of stopping it.

-As others have suggested, lift the absolute minimum required and only when/where needed. Once in the trailer, cribbing/strapping will be important to prevent the lathe shifting/moving around. I moved a Bridgeport, lathes, surface grinders, and 900 pounds of granite surface plate by myself so it's possible to do this but planning is critical. Strapping/constraining everything at every step is extra time/work but it ensures safety for the humans and the machines so do it. Moving in Texas also should require covering the entire machine in plastic sheeting to avoid the abrasive dust/sand getting blown in/on the machine during transit. Be safe, good luck.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I would do as the previous poster said, and if more weight is needed on the tailstock end you could place some weight into the chip pan and clamp or strap it into place. A sledge hammer is usually 8-12 lbs. and there may be other common items you can use, an electric motor or such. A hydraulic drop deck trailer is the way, but you may have to put it on dollies to roll it in. Last couple of times I have rented the trailers here they were $65 a day, but they usually require a full size truck with towing capacity to be able to rent them.

 

[mike93lx]

I know a Uhaul trailer is cheap and probably convenient, but I agree with the others on renting a drop deck. It will be a lot easier and safer when loading and unloading. Should be able to get one from a place like united, sunbelt or maybe a local rental shop.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Looking at the pallet it is on, the move can be made with a pallet jack and two 4x4 lengthwise runners and some pipe If you have to rent a fork lift or do not have access to one. Jack the unit up with a (rented) pallet jack. Depending on the jack, it should jack it about right to slide the two runners under and screw them in place. Lower and remove pallet jack onto pipes or rods when near the trailer. Pull lathe into trailer Egyptian style with a comealong. A large pry bar will remove the roll pipes, or let the trailer lip remove them as it enters. Reverse when you get where you are going. I moved my lathe by myself with a similar method because my forklift would not fit the area. It is also surprising what can be dragged on a concrete floor on longitudinal skids.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I know a Uhaul trailer is cheap and probably convenient, but I agree with the others on renting a drop deck. It will be a lot easier and safer when loading and unloading. Should be able to get one from a place like united, sunbelt or maybe a local rental shop.

I rent drop decks from Sunbelt here when I need one, but I have to drive an hour there to get it.

 

[jack stand]

Guys tell me why the bearings can't take the load. 1600# is nothing and with no shock to them in the lifting process and a lesser point of only 10 minutes of duration, I just don't understand the concern.
I'm not doubting your advice but from a simple metal on metal gentle load (say 1000#/600# split) do you really think your going to flat spot a ball bearing or tweek a shaft considering what loads it was designed to accommodate?
Again I'm not a lathe guy or machinist, just honestly curious.
The extreme top heavy condition would be more of a concern and the shaft is as high as you can hang it from.

 

[txvwnut]

If you have to lift it move the carriage and tailstock as for to the right as you can. If the bed on that is open then there should be a couple of cross webs, you attach your lifting straps to those webs and lift. This is how the instructions for every lathe I've moved has stated to do it.

 

[txvwnut]

Guys tell me why the bearings can't take the load. 1600# is nothing and with no shock to them in the lifting process and a lesser point of only 10 minutes of duration, I just don't understand the concern.
I'm not doubting your advice but from a simple metal on metal gentle load (say 1000#/600# split) do you really think your going to flat spot a ball bearing or tweek a shaft considering what loads it was designed to accommodate?
Again I'm not a lathe guy or machinist, just honestly curious.
The extreme top heavy condition would be more of a concern and the shaft is as high as you can hang it from.

It's not the bearings at issue perse but the spindle and how the whole headstock is attached to the lathe. You are asking four or six bolts not rated for that kind of load to accept not only a vertical load but also a live load as the unit will swing when lifted and then moved to another location.

 

[jack stand]

Perfect! I've never been "into" the insides of a lathe.

 

[karoc]

Removing thought of pipe inside spindle to lift. When I get back from this weekends work trip going play around little lifting it off pallet some. See how it goes with carriage and tailstock at far end.
Drop Trailer: I have use those before and they work great. But back then I had 3/4 ton truck, which now I have 1/2 ton. I read someplace that 1/2 ton truck isn’t enough for drop trailer. So planning on tandem axle trailer from U Haul to help with weight. I do know concerns about pulling to much weight with light duty truck, but going go slow and stay in right lane. But I’m still all ears, I hate gamble by using light duty truck where it should be no less than 3/4 ton

 

[mike93lx]

Removing thought of pipe inside spindle to lift. When I get back from this weekends work trip going play around little lifting it off pallet some. See how it goes with carriage and tailstock at far end.
Drop Trailer: I have use those before and they work great. But back then I had 3/4 ton truck, which now I have 1/2 ton. I read someplace that 1/2 ton truck isn’t enough for drop trailer. So planning on tandem axle trailer to help with weight. I do know concerns about pulling to much weight with light duty truck, but going go slow and stay in right lane. But I’m still all ears, I hate gamble by using light duty truck where it should be no less than 3/4 ton

Your half ton is fine. Even if the trailer weighs 4k empty, you'll be under 6 all in

The problem would be if you were hauling the trailer's capacity

 

[karoc]

Sunbelt it is, I do feel better knowing I don’t have gamble. Thanks Mike and GJ members

 

[rsanter]

Remove the tailstock
remove the chuck
remove the toolpost

move the carrage all the way to the right

pick uo from the webbing in the bed nearest the head of the machine.
move the carrage a bit to adjust ballance

 

[BigMike782]

Remove the tailstock
remove the chuck
remove the toolpost

move the carrage all the way to the right

pick uo from the webbing in the bed nearest the head of the machine.
move the carrage a bit to adjust ballance

That’s how I picked mine up short the removal of the chuck and tailstock.

 

[larry_g]

Remove the tailstock
remove the chuck
remove the toolpost

move the carrage all the way to the right

pick uo from the webbing in the bed nearest the head of the machine.
move the carrage a bit to adjust ballance

Agree with the above except that the tailstock MAY be used to achieve balance if necessary.

 

[elmer]

Picked mine up by running a strap through the webbing in the bed as mentioned above.

 

[whateg01]

I wouldn't have any issue sticking a pipe through the spindle to use for "leveling" it. Yes you'll likely be lifting with it a little but if the carriage is moved to the TS end and it's lifted by a strap through the bed near the HS, there shouldn't be much needed to get the HS end up.

 

[RoninB4]

Guys tell me why the bearings can't take the load. 1600# is nothing and with no shock to them in the lifting process and a lesser point of only 10 minutes of duration, I just don't understand the concern.
I'm not doubting your advice but from a simple metal on metal gentle load (say 1000#/600# split) do you really think your going to flat spot a ball bearing or tweek a shaft considering what loads it was designed to accommodate?
Again I'm not a lathe guy or machinist, just honestly curious.

-When the load exceeds the elastic limit of the outer/inner race the effect is called brinelling. It can be a micro-dimple almost too small to see but it will be noticeable in vibration when running. Much like a pothole in the road it will continue to get worse. With the cost and trouble of replacing bearings why would anybody want to take the risk of trashing the bearings when other methods of lifting can be used. I used to work for Sheldon Machine Co. (lathe maker) and putting pressure on the spindle/headstock was absolutely verboten.

 

[gregs]

I am possibly moving a L&S 16x60 lathe in the near future. Estimated weight is 6K +ish. When I originally put it in at work our forklift with a 6k capacity could barely lift it. I ended up having to strip the motor, tailstock and other bits off. I lifted it by putting the forks under the bed, closest to the headstock. I was young, less smart, and brave at the time. Now I am older, smarter and wiser (I tell myself). I will be moving it to my home shop which has zero paving around it. One plan is to strip the parts back off so I can lift it and put it back on a trailer, then rent some type of forklift to bring to the house to unload it. The other possibilty is to use the shop rollback and equipment skates (have some already). Load it with the forklift at work and use the skates and winch cable to unload it and move it inside of the shop.

 

[cannuck]

To start with, find a copy of the original owner/operator's manual and lift as they suggest. If not available anywhere (and I can tell you it WILL be easy to find online) DO NOT lift by the spindle and/or chuck. The spindle is meant to take side loads from cutting tool, not the mass of the whole damned machine. Moved my 15/50 a while ago and it has a permanent lifting eye threaded hole in the trough between ways right near the chuck. That point is barely above the CofG, but enough to be stable. In your case I would suggest a piece of channel with big nut welded in slid under ways at gap above chip pan. Use threaded rod (3/4 or better 1") threaded into nut at bottom and another "clamping" piece of channel tightened against the ways with a nut. Leave the free end about a foot above (why 1" is better) with lifting eye threaded onto end. Use an engine hoist coming in from the headstock end (to keep reach from boom as short as possible and do a trial low lift, moving carriage to get straight. I would actually prefer to see a bit of weight on the tailstock end, trimmed with a ratchet strap to the hook. (Yeah quite aware they are not officially rated for lifting). The engine lift will allow you to roll its legs under the trailer, but you need one with axle very near the back. I just moved my 2200 lb. milling machine that way, but had an old tandem axle trailer for big genset that I used by removing front wheels to get rear axle under CofG. If your trailer is long enough you could load from the side, but usually means you can't quite put load on centerline.

 

[Firebrick43]

How far away from your property is the lathe?

The best way I have found to move heavy machine tools locally is a roll back wrecker. Pretty reasonable price as well but gets a little pricey if you have to go far

Ronin described the damage to the bearings pretty well

 

[RoninB4]

The best way I have found to move heavy machine tools locally is a roll back wrecker.

-That's what I used to move just the 5,000 + pound jig borer. The towing company had a regular clientele from the local hot rod club so they had a reputation for being careful. The driver loaded carefully and shoehorned it into the apron of my new-to-me garage where I could get it on machine skates. I've moved heavy machinery, and large molds (20 tons) around the shop for decades but I don't take chances at home when I don't have overhead cranes and forklifts. Be safe.

 

[jar944]

Sling it under bed, close to the chuck. Throw a strap to the tailstock end to balance if you miss the balance point the first time.

 

[LopezBart]

When I've moved machines (3000 lb lathe, 2200 BP, etc) I've used a drop bed trailer. The handiest thing in the shop is two heavy duty dollies I made up; either will take the full weight of either machine. A good quality engine hoist as in the picture above worked well to lift the BP onto the dolly. I strapped the lathe under the bed.

When I move these machines into our new shop (1000 mile trip) I'd love to have a fork lift available in CA to load them onto the equipment trailer. Still mulling that over.... but there's still a lot more work to do on the shop.

 

[Firebrick43]

-That's what I used to move just the 5,000 + pound jig borer. The towing company had a regular clientele from the local hot rod club so they had a reputation for being careful. The driver loaded carefully and shoehorned it into the apron of my new-to-me garage where I could get it on machine skates. I've moved heavy machinery, and large molds (20 tons) around the shop for decades but I don't take chances at home when I don't have overhead cranes and forklifts. Be safe.

Moore, Pratt and Whitney, Lucas, devlig, or something real special like a SIP or DIXI?

Can’t leave a man hanging like that without details

 

[RoninB4]

Moore, Pratt and Whitney, Lucas, devlig, or something real special like a SIP or DIXI?

Can’t leave a man hanging like that without details

-Could only wish that it was a SIP. It's a gantry model that was a SIP knock-off by Mitsui-Seiki. Delivery (new) to Denso Automotive where it spent it's entire life in a climate controlled room and operated by only one person. I'm the second owner, got it for an embarrassingly cheap price with a full cabinet of tooling. Still got at least 80% of the scraping on the ways and a working Heidenhain DRO . The only guy that used it thanked me several times for purchasing it, saving it from the scrap yard by corporate decision. Can't find photo from shop, this one below is similar.

 

[Firebrick43]

-Could only wish that it was a SIP. It's a gantry model that was a SIP knock-off by Mitsui-Seiki. Delivery (new) to Denso Automotive where it spent it's entire life in a climate controlled room and operated by only one person. I'm the second owner, got it for an embarrassingly cheap price with a full cabinet of tooling. Still got at least 80% of the scraping on the ways and a working Heidenhain DRO . The only guy that used it thanked me several times for purchasing it, saving it from the scrap yard by corporate decision. Can't find photo from shop, this one below is similar.

Awesome. I haven’t seen one of those. It does look the 7a hydroptic I have worked on/operated!

Does yours have optical scales as well as the dro?

 

[RoninB4]

Awesome. I haven’t seen one of those. It does look the 7a hydroptic I have worked on/operated!

-That must have been a nice machine to use and larger than mine. My previous experience is confined an old Pratt & Whitney, Fosdick, few from Moore. and a Linley. There's no way I could have shoehorned a 7A into the garage/basement.

Does yours have optical scales as well as the dro?

-No, the optics were removed shortly after delivery from Japan in favor of the Heidenhain DRO. Perhaps it was redundant but I kinda wish the optics were still on there to be fully OEM and a backup for when the capacitors in the DRO retire. I have a soft spot for optical things. There's an optical spotting scope in the tooling cabinet that still has the OEM plastic dip protecting it.

My apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread. Bragging about my shop equipment is bad form, and should be confined to another thread.

 

[rsanter]

Agree with the above except that the tailstock MAY be used to achieve balance if necessary.

I don’t like anything that can move and come off if the lathe tilts

 

[whateg01]

I don’t like anything that can move and come off if the lathe tilts

If the tail stock falls off the lathe, you did not have it tightened down correctly

 

[rsanter]

If the tail stock falls off the lathe, you did not have it tightened down correctly

True, but better safe than sorry.
plus I’m taking that hunk of weight off so what we are lifting.

plus again, when in transport I don’t have to worry about it loosening and moving

 

[Sumboodie]

Lift it by the pallet.

 

[Sumboodie]

Sling it under bed, close to the chuck. Throw a strap to the tailstock end to balance if you miss the balance point the first time.

Used to have on of those little Grizzlies.

Pretty much just enough lathe to be useless at near everything

 

[RoninB4]

Pretty much just enough lathe to be useless at near everything

-I'm probably going to borrow that one from you. Check will be in the mail.

 

[jar944]

Used to have on of those little Grizzlies.

Pretty much just enough lathe to be useless at near everything

Must have been user error.

This is arguably lower quality being a harbor freight 12x36 lathe but it's held every tolerance I've needed on engine parts, gun parts, and general machine parts over the 21 years I've owned it.

 

[whateg01]

Must have been user error.

This is arguably lower quality being a harbor freight 12x36 lathe but it's held every tolerance I've needed on engine parts, gun parts, and general machine parts over the 21 years I've owned it.

Same people who say you can't make parts on a Bridgeport. Strange thing to say considering all the parts that have been made on a Bridgeport.

 

[LopezBart]

If you're a ram it and jam it sort of fellow, you're going to be disappointed by machinery that was designed for careful use. Production, esp. by poorly trained folks getting paid at the low end of the scale, takes heavy machinery that will withstand heavy use.

Bridgeports have been around a while, and were used for producing all sorts of parts; they were extensively used in WWII from what I understand, but data is hard to come by. They'd built 5000 of them by the time WWII ended.

https://americanprecision.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/How-They-Built-the-Bridgeport-r21.pdf.