Buckgnarly
Well-known member
Just saw this on the tube of you......Snap On's answer to Knipex?
Snap On pulling a Harbor Freight on Knipex?.....new water pump pliers....
- Thread starter Buckgnarly
- Start date
That’s cool will prob honestly be 2x to 2.5x the price as knipex and weight 2x to 2.5x as much and have a lifetime warranty compared to not really any real warranty with knipex.
prob better than cobras if your a professional auto tech who has a snap on dealer doing weekly service and prob worse than cobras if your a tradesee who carries there tools any distance at all.
prob better than cobras if your a professional auto tech who has a snap on dealer doing weekly service and prob worse than cobras if your a tradesee who carries there tools any distance at all.
Andres26tnt
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 11, 2018
- Messages
- 994
Does look like knipex, but doesn't function like them. Looks quite nice actually. I can see good improvement for sure. Probably going to be pricey, but it's snap-on after all.
lotus_esprit
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2009
- Messages
- 113
I thought Snap On were in bed with Knipex anyway - Snap On UK have replaced a couple of my old pliers under warranty with Knipex replacements, which are listed on thier website
neophyte
Well-known member
As Pasha mentioned, the Knipex Cobra patents have expired, with the possible exception of the curved/arced slot on the newer versions of the Knipex Cobras.
Snap-On is therefore fully legal in copying the design, or improving it.
In this case, Snap-On made a ratcheting design, and it looks like the design may not need the use of a pushbutton to adjust the jaw opening.
The tooth design looks to be taken from a Bahco waterpump plier design that goes back a decade or teo, which may have been introduced to compete with the Knipex Cobra, or dome of the other German waterpump plier adjusting mechanisms that go back decades.
I thought the forward ratcheting adjustment might have been oatrnted by Stanley/Facom, etc. as found on the Facom plier wrench plier, but either Snap-On worked around it, or the placement in the slot rather than on the back was not infringement.
Snap-On is therefore fully legal in copying the design, or improving it.
In this case, Snap-On made a ratcheting design, and it looks like the design may not need the use of a pushbutton to adjust the jaw opening.
The tooth design looks to be taken from a Bahco waterpump plier design that goes back a decade or teo, which may have been introduced to compete with the Knipex Cobra, or dome of the other German waterpump plier adjusting mechanisms that go back decades.
I thought the forward ratcheting adjustment might have been oatrnted by Stanley/Facom, etc. as found on the Facom plier wrench plier, but either Snap-On worked around it, or the placement in the slot rather than on the back was not infringement.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Their marketing dept isn't great.
Kind of corny to copy the esthetics so much. I'd be curious how much wider they are at the jaws. I'm getting ready for another pair of cobra pliers, but it's hard to move away from Knipex when we already know their excellent performance.
Wait. That was actually put out by Snap-on? OMG speechess...
Kinda reminded me of the old claymation videos or a three year old pretending it was a dinosaur hahaha.
And I'm generally a fan of Snap-on tools. But that video was annoyingly bad.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
That's just like the "Cobra Quick Set" part number 87 21 250. Fedwrench sent me a pair of those. I assume Fedwrench doesn't like the quick set feature but it makes a fantastic kitchen jar opener. 
I gotta have the regular Cobra with the lock button for everything else besides jars. That Snap-on pair in the video would not be my preference.
87 21 250 = Cobra Quick Set
87 01 250 = Cobra Regular
I gotta have the regular Cobra with the lock button for everything else besides jars. That Snap-on pair in the video would not be my preference.
87 21 250 = Cobra Quick Set
87 01 250 = Cobra Regular
aka Larry
Well-known member
Since I could give a **** less about Snap-On in general, I don't really care, but your comment made me watch that video. I hope they didn't actually PAY someone to make that. Yeah, it's that bad.
neophyte
Well-known member
Wait until the Snap-On dealers start doing the same show on the trucks to sell the pliers.
Would you believe it's an improvement over their old product videos?
They used to have some bearded dude awkwardly pretending he knew which end of a hammer to hold talking about the product.
mngundog
Well-known member
It's fun to listen to the HF jack argument in reverse.
Beerhippie
Well-known member
@Buckgnarly : Thanks for referring to the pliers as "water pump pliers". I don't much see or hear that these days.
"Tongue-and-groove pliers" just doesn't roll off the tongue the same way.
"Tongue-and-groove pliers" just doesn't roll off the tongue the same way.
Hilarious. The company that sued HF over a similar appearing hydraulic jack comes out with their own Knipex copy. Yes, I realize that the SO adjustment method is different and seems to be better, but it's clearly heavily borrowing from the basic Knipex design. I guess that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Unless you're SO and someone makes a jack that looks like yours; that's somehow different.
Maybe they are being smart, just like other successful businesses.
Never owned any type Knipex cobra pliers until I inherited two pair from FIL. I use them fairly often now, since go figure, I grab on lot more rounded objects, than flat, hence the rounded jaws get better grip, than something flat like Channellock's.
FWIW someone invented the wheel, many looked at it and thought "Those are great, I could make some of those as well"
Never owned any type Knipex cobra pliers until I inherited two pair from FIL. I use them fairly often now, since go figure, I grab on lot more rounded objects, than flat, hence the rounded jaws get better grip, than something flat like Channellock's.
FWIW someone invented the wheel, many looked at it and thought "Those are great, I could make some of those as well"
four.cycle
Well-known member
Then it would be reasonable to assume we will be seeing knock-offs proliferate in the market.
Has ICON introduced a copy yet?
Doubt if Wilde would tool up to make a niche item, but you just never know.
Probably see a lot of them coming from Asia.
"Water Pump Pliers", by definition, lack the "tongue and groove" action.
No, it doesn't roll off the tongue easily. Probably why the catch-all term more commonly used is "Channellock".
Beerhippie
Well-known member
Well, that's what we called them growing up--blame my father.Then it would be reasonable to assume we will be seeing knock-offs proliferate in the market.
Has ICON introduced a copy yet?
Doubt if Wilde would tool up to make a niche item, but you just never know.
Probably see a lot of them coming from Asia.
"Water Pump Pliers", by definition, lack the "tongue and groove" action.
No, it doesn't roll off the tongue easily. Probably why the catch-all term more commonly used is "Channellock".
DAWrench
Well-known member
People love to hate on the Robogrip pliers but Sears did sell a **** load of them. I got them for a Christmas gift like many other people. They weren't the worst tool ever and in the right situation maybe ever borderline useful. Just there is not many right situations
Qualitytools
Well-known member
Someone or some committee approved this to go into production? As others have said it’s BAD I didn’t even bother to watch the entire video.
the sears christmas tool collection certainly contains lots worse tools than the robogrips!
I recently bought one at the habitat restore. It's a pretty small one (8", I think). I left it out on the bench for a while, so it was a handy pair of pliers, and it got used. it works pretty well for "grab a rod or bar and turn it (or keep it from turning, while you do something else)", but knipex cobras have bettter teeth, and are only slightly harder to adjust once you know how to do it one handed. The basic auto-adjustment mechanism works well on the robogrips, and I'll hang on to them.
neophyte
Well-known member
Yes, Harbor Freight has a “Knock Off” of the Cobra pliers.Then it would be reasonable to assume we will be seeing knock-offs proliferate in the market.
Has ICON introduced a copy yet?
Doubt if Wilde would tool up to make a niche item, but you just never know.
Probably see a lot of them coming from Asia.
"Water Pump Pliers", by definition, lack the "tongue and groove" action.
No, it doesn't roll off the tongue easily. Probably why the catch-all term more commonly used is "Channellock".
The aesthetics are actually somewhat changed from the Knipex Cobra pliers, which is something Harbor Freight has fone with most of their Knopex Clones, except the Plier Wrench.
The Cobra clone is sold under the “Doyle” branding rather than the “Icon” branding, similar to the Canon Plug plier Knipex clones.
Neither plier gas the curved serrated adjustment track found on the newest Knipex pliers.
There are also both Icon and Doyle branded clones of the Channellock pliers.
I’m not even sure if Knipex originated the haw form on the Cobra pliers.
Multiple other German water pump pliers with a variety of adjustment mechanisms use similar jaw shapes.
The main advantage was both the haw design, and the finer adjustment method allowed by the Knipex patented serrated push button adjustment system.
Attachments
four.cycle
Well-known member
^ same here... my old man referred to all of them as "water pump pliers".
neophyte
Well-known member
I just know the term from industrial catalogs or certain tool manufacturers catalogs.
Kick me off GJ: Like the controversial slip joint needle nose pliers, this is another pair of pliers I don’t feel I need.
FWIW, I’m ok with the video. The target audience could be 19 yr olds, not you (we) old farts. If you haven’t figured it out yet, we are irrelevant.
FWIW, I’m ok with the video. The target audience could be 19 yr olds, not you (we) old farts. If you haven’t figured it out yet, we are irrelevant.
Andres26tnt
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 11, 2018
- Messages
- 994
There is nothing wrong with the video, it's definitely target to the younger crowd. The pliers look good, at least with this copy they actually improve some aspects, well that's to be determined.
redwrench60
Well-known member
The pliers look like they’re high quality and well made. I bet they’ll retail for at least a hondo…..
That video is……unique. Definitely not targeted towards me lol. Sounds like emo-**** music.
That video is……unique. Definitely not targeted towards me lol. Sounds like emo-**** music.
CHI_Tool&Die
Well-known member
It will be in my work box as soon as it shows up on my dealer’s truck. I have Knipex and NWS pliers and I love them, but to have the warranty available at my fingertips makes this a no-brainer. I use my water pump pliers for everything at work.
mreisner
Well-known member
Around 80 I heard from a dealer.
I have the Aligator that I bought off the Snap-On truck maybe 25 years ago and hardly ever used it because it is a pain to change the jaw width . I always wanted to get a Cobra but just never did and may try these if they get good reviews from members.
My first Knipex plier was a ~10" Alligator plier that I found at work in the late 1980s- it belonged to a former mechanic that worked there. I hated it because of the way it adjusted, never used it because of that, and then decades later finally gave it to a friend of mine who is into classic Volkswagens since it was marked West Germany.
However, I do love the Cobra and Plier Wrench adjusting method, and Snap On seems to have taken it a step farther. I have to give them credit for not just making a simple copy.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
These look like a redesigned Bahco 7224.
neophyte
Well-known member
I had not heard that.
neophyte
Well-known member
So I just Googled that.
I still can’t find the actual info on the Snap-On corporate website though.
Attachments
It would not surprise me. All of the adjustable wrenches are made in USA now. The PWZ are made in Argentina.
I'm not sure what else is coming from the Bahco/Bahco Spain side of Snap On.