Snap-on 1/2" Drive Inside a Harbor Freight G2 Icon - It Works

[spyerx]

Hi -

I have a Snap-On SL80A 1/2" Dual 80 Ratchet.

Snap-on Store

shop.snapon.com

It uses rebuild kit: RKRS80A

I picked up the Harbor Freight Icon G2 Long Locking Flex Head 1/2" Ratchet today. I'm super impressed by it on first impressions. A mix of Snap-on and Armstrong/Matco locking. And 1/3 the Snappy price.
Model R3XLKG, SKU: 70437
This guy: https://www.harborfreight.com/g2-12...ing-flex-ratchet-with-comfort-grip-70437.html

Anyway, I opened up the HF ratchet to check the oil/grease, there was very little. In doing so I was surprise how nearly identical the machining / design of the head was. The drive mechanism is different, a simpler design to the Snap-On. In back drag the snap on has a 'lighter' feel but I didn't measure it. They both are very very smooth and feel quality.

They were so similar I decided to swap the entire insides + back plate and it fits, and it works. Now, I didn't test under torque or under use other than messing around with it. But it 100% feels and operates and sounds like a Snap-on.

Whether Snap-on is a better unit, I don't know. The Icon does have a recess machined into the head that the gear rides in. The Snap on does not, but the snap on gear fits in fine and there is zero play in it. I did not test if there is additional flex under high torque.

The Snap-On Rebuild kits are cheap if anyone wants to try it!

Yeah i cleaned some of the excess super lube out of the snappy... i just used 3 in 1 in the Icon.

Here it is, when assembled and torqued it fixed exactly, including with the snap on back plate:



Snap-on Top
HF bottom


Icon close up



Snap-On close up.



Dual 80 mechanism



Icon G2 mechanism



Comparison of the two:

 

[Meursault74]

The discussion on this will be entertaining. I'll get some

 

[General Geoff]

I'm guessing Snap-On's dual-80 technology was patented around 2005, which would mean it just expired and HF can freely copy the internal design

 

[spyerx]

I'm guessing Snap-On's dual-80 technology was patented around 2005, which would mean it just expired and HF can freely copy the internal design

It could be... The actual mechanism is very different, but the MOUNTING of the mechanism is near identical, other than the flange on the back of the drive gear. The only part that is interchangeable is the drive gear (from HF to SO, the HF gear won't fit in the SO), or the entire mechanism. And the back plate.

 

[Hannahranga]

I live a fairly long swim from the nearest HF, how does the price of the icon + rebuild kit compare to the full snap on?

 

[General Geoff]

I live a fairly long swim from the nearest HF, how does the price of the icon + rebuild kit compare to the full snap on?

$120 + $11.20 rebuild kit vs $315 for the equivalent Snap-On complete ratchet

 

[ChevyEFI]

It could be... The actual mechanism is very different, but the MOUNTING of the mechanism is near identical, other than the flange on the back of the drive gear. The only part that is interchangeable is the drive gear (from HF to SO, the HF gear won't fit in the SO), or the entire mechanism. And the back plate.

with the raised circle milled away, it seems like it would?

I live a fairly long swim from the nearest HF, how does the price of the icon + rebuild kit compare to the full snap on?

minus coupon*

 

[M635_Guy]

I'm guessing Snap-On's dual-80 technology was patented around 2005, which would mean it just expired and HF can freely copy the internal design

The mechanisms are super-different. You can't patent the shape of a chamber.

I kinda doubt this will work well under load, at least for very long.

 

[Steve_P]

Very interesting, and thanks for the comparison and pics. It looks like they started with the Dual 80 basic design and then simplified it by redesigning the pawl portion of the mechanism; someone clever put some thought into this.

 

[mikey03]

Does it work the other way, if I have a $300 snap on ratchet can i put an icon upgrade kit in there?

 

[Andres26tnt]

The mechanism is differentish, they just split the switch ala Koken and uses a single piece pawl. I can almost guaranteed they started with the actual dual 80 design and change/twicked it to not have any issues selling it.

 

[spyerx]

Some bad news on the stock ratchet.

So I torqued down a lug stud in my vise, put a couple jam nuts on there and a lug nut, and cranked it up to 150ft lbs with my torque wrench. I used the Icon to remove it. I did this several times. At one point the switch would not move and the anvil was binding on back rotation. On rotation with a socket on it by hand, i could turn it with a ton of effort, then it would get easy, then hard to turn. I was able to reproduce it every time in the reverse / off direction. On direction didn't seem to have this problem. If I whacked the head it would go back to normal. Something is binding.

I opened it up while it was bound and tried to see what it is, I think it's the anvil getting cockeyed (possibly its that recess??), not the pawl. Checked the assembly, put it back together and it was still doing the same thing.

I swapped the full Snap on internals + Snap on back plate into the Icon. I did the exact same tests. No issues over a dozen tries and cranking and removing the lug at different starting positions. It worked perfectly as you'd expect.

Heading out now to swap it. I'll keep the wrench if it does this on the new one and just use the snap on internals. But hope it's just a janky wrench I got.

 

[spyerx]

Replacement ratchet does the same. Only seems to do on removal of a bolt the back drag gets really bound up. Smack the head and it goes away. This is based on a 19mm lug tightened to 150 ft lbs.

I pulled the cover while it was bound and it looks
Like the anvil is tilted in the back plate and that recess for the anvil in the head binds up.

So i swapped the snap on cover plate to the icon and left all the same. I looked at these and measure and they are identical and even weigh within .5g the same. Guess what. No more binding with several tests. Is the cover flexing??? Is that back recess causing issues??

Tried swapping the icon plate to the snap on but it binds.

Of course my snap on ratchet has zero issues.

I’m keeping it but putting snap on head bits. I like the wrench but based on limited 2 sample testing there is an issue with them.

Curious if anyone else has same happen.

 

[Steve_P]

Good info, but funny that the SO cover plate fixes it.

The new HF ad: Compare Icon to Snap On: buy the G2 Icon ratchet and put the $12 SO kit in it, save hundreds vs Snap On .

When HF introduced the G1 ratchets, I wondered why they didn't use the basic internal design that the GW 90T, Matco 88, Tekton 90T, Capri 90T... use; these are proven. And since it sounds like there's an issue with this design, I guess I'll keep wondering why they just didn't copy GW 90T design.

 

[spyerx]

I have a snap on rebuild kit with backing plate coming this week I’ll drop it in there and do some more tests. Will bump it up to 200 ft lbs. my vise is cheap. Of course is this a reason to get a better vise?

If the issue isn’t fixed it’s going back. And i have a spare rebuild kit for my snappy 1/2 ratchet. I don’t mind 140 for the wrench with snap on kit , the flex head and overall feel of the handle/finish are good.

I’m sure some of the YouTube channels will be putting these through paces soon so that will be interesting.

 

[EricN.]

Interesting, Thanks for sharing,

 

[johninct]

Replacement ratchet does the same. Only seems to do on removal of a bolt the back drag gets really bound up. Smack the head and it goes away. This is based on a 19mm lug tightened to 150 ft lbs.

I pulled the cover while it was bound and it looks
Like the anvil is tilted in the back plate and that recess for the anvil in the head binds up.

So i swapped the snap on cover plate to the icon and left all the same. I looked at these and measure and they are identical and even weigh within .5g the same. Guess what. No more binding with several tests. Is the cover flexing??? Is that back recess causing issues??

Tried swapping the icon plate to the snap on but it binds.

Of course my snap on ratchet has zero issues.

I’m keeping it but putting snap on head bits. I like the wrench but based on limited 2 sample testing there is an issue with them.

Curious if anyone else has same happen.

Can you fill the recess with a washer or a spacer?

 

[spyerx]

Can you fill the recess with a washer or a spacer?

I'm sure you could, i don't have the means to machine something. But, i'm not sure you need do, the recess is a lot smaller than the snap on drive gear. When i have it apart again later this week I'll measure the size of it.

 

[mikey03]

maybe hf could sell these without pawls or backplates just like 80% ratchet kits to make it cheaper and easier for us

 

[Mr_B]

HF and ICON ratchets seem be nothing but a bind of issues lol .
main issue is too much base concept copying then simplifying on it for manufacture .

 

[Hohn]

HF and ICON ratchets seem be nothing but a bind of issues lol .
main issue is too much base concept copying then simplifying on it for manufacture .

That seems about right.
They omit certain aspects of the design to cheapen it up and then SURPRISE it doesn't work as well.

I've had good luck with almost all my Icon stuff, but I'm thinking any new HF product is best not to be an early adopter.

 

[spyerx]

HF and ICON ratchets seem be nothing but a bind of issues lol .
main issue is too much base concept copying then simplifying on it for manufacture .

Unfortunately, but look, I'm just one weekend hack who wanted a long ratcheting breaker bar for a reasonable price... I do expect it could perform that base function and 150-200ft lbs is well within the spec of 1/2"... so it's not like I'm trying break the tool.

That seems about right.
They omit certain aspects of the design to cheapen it up and then SURPRISE it doesn't work as well.

I've had good luck with almost all my Icon stuff, but I'm thinking any new HF product is best not to be an early adopter.

If I was a pro and my livelihood depending on it, I wouldn't waste my time outside maybe the sockets / impacts. When your livelihood depends that a tool works, as intended, every time, you can't afford for it not to. So in that aspect, I get why guys buy off the truck, they get (mostly) that reliability.

 

[Hakeem]

HF and ICON ratchets seem be nothing but a bind of issues lol .
main issue is too much base concept copying then simplifying on it for manufacture .

What are you referring to, exactly? The experience from one user? I’d wait for some more corroborations before condemning the entire lineup.

And given that Snapon, KoKen, and Matco all recently had to revamp their ratchets to correct issues with the design, I don’t think this is an issue exclusive to HF.

Unfortunately, but look, I'm just one weekend hack who wanted a long ratcheting breaker bar for a reasonable price... I do expect it could perform that base function and 150-200ft lbs is well within the spec of 1/2"... so it's not like I'm trying break the tool.



If I was a pro and my livelihood depending on it, I wouldn't waste my time outside maybe the sockets / impacts. When your livelihood depends that a tool works, as intended, every time, you can't afford for it not to. So in that aspect, I get why guys buy off the truck, they get (mostly) that reliability.

guys buy off the truck because it comes to their workplace and they get cheap easy credit from it. Yeah their stuff is higher quality than most other tool brands but from what I’ve seen, that isn’t the primary reason your average Technician buys tool truck stuff.

 

[bkdc]

Replacement ratchet does the same. Only seems to do on removal of a bolt the back drag gets really bound up. Smack the head and it goes away. This is based on a 19mm lug tightened to 150 ft lbs.

I pulled the cover while it was bound and it looks
Like the anvil is tilted in the back plate and that recess for the anvil in the head binds up.

So i swapped the snap on cover plate to the icon and left all the same. I looked at these and measure and they are identical and even weigh within .5g the same. Guess what. No more binding with several tests. Is the cover flexing??? Is that back recess causing issues??

Tried swapping the icon plate to the snap on but it binds.

Of course my snap on ratchet has zero issues.

I’m keeping it but putting snap on head bits. I like the wrench but based on limited 2 sample testing there is an issue with them.

Curious if anyone else has same happen.

I would open the ratchet and add a bunch of oil (not grease) and see if anything changes. If it doesn’t, back to HF.

 

[spyerx]

I would open the ratchet and add a bunch of oil (not grease) and see if anything changes. If it doesn’t, back to HF.

Already tried it with both ratchets (and with a ratchet fresh out of package). First with 3 in 1. Then cleaned it out. Then with super lube. Same thing. Something is twisting inside and binding the drive gear. A wack on the drive gear fixes it, it unbinds. Its not like a pawl is skipping or or failing to snap or engage. It did the exact same thing with 2 different ratchets.

 

[ChevyEFI]

Ah, the never ending love of all things defective and pear shaped continues.

 

[AEAdam]

I'm just one weekend hack who wanted a long ratcheting breaker bar for a reasonable price... I do expect it could perform that base function and 150-200ft lbs is well within the spec of 1/2"... so it's not like I'm trying break the tool.

Of all the ratchets to test this on, maybe this one isn't the right choice.

First 150-200ftlbs is nothing for a 26" 1/2" drive ratchet. You should expect and may well need 2X that.
Second, you can pick up used Snap On SHLF80A on eBay for somewhere around what you paid for the Icon. $120 for a Taiwan tool is a bit cynical in my opinion.

If I was a pro and my livelihood depending on it, I wouldn't waste my time outside maybe the sockets / impacts. When your livelihood depends that a tool works, as intended, every time, you can't afford for it not to. So in that aspect, I get why guys buy off the truck, they get (mostly) that reliability.

This form factor is one that every weekend mechanic (like me) really relies on. If you don't have a lift, can't fit your gun everywhere you'd like, this one tool, maybe beyond all others, can be a differentiator.

I'm disappointed to hear the Icon doesn't perform well stock. Because my advice has always been, this is the one tool you absolutely must have as a weekend mechanic. And up to now, I've always recommended the Snap On because it's a top performing beast of a tool. I don't love seeing manufacturers ripping off others' IP, but I was happy to see the form factors of the G2 Icon ratchets. I say, save your money elsewhere, particularly for the shorter ratchets, that frankly don't need to be that strong, and don't really benefit (as much) from fine toothed heads.

Last, SHLF80 is an amazing tool for more reasons than its Dual 80 head. I like the soft grip, particularly for this tool. The friction flex head is divine. It just stays puts, yet is easy and smooth to move into the position you need. The bar doesn't flex like some others. Snap On's steel and heat treat really remain a cut above. I do find it disconcerting to see my cheaper tools flexing. I'm just wondering exactly where the bits will fly when it lets go.

If I were you, I'd trade that Icon in for some Icon stubbies, provided they work okay, and start esniping for an SHLF80A on eBay. Look for one that has cosmetic wear and a toasted grip and you will get a deal. As long as the chrome isn't gouged up, it is restorable to virtually new with a new grip and a rebuild kit.

First time that thing saves your ***, whatever you spent will have been worth it. With the cost of auto repairs in my neighborhood, it's not hard to justify quite a few "ridiculously priced" Snap On tools. (but be smart about it - buy second hand and don't buy stuff that doesn't give you the bang for your buck).

 

[spyerx]

Of all the ratchets to test this on, maybe this one isn't the right choice.

First 150-200ftlbs is nothing for a 26" 1/2" drive ratchet. You should expect and may well need 2X that.
Second, you can pick up used Snap On SHLF80A on eBay for somewhere around what you paid for the Icon. $120 for a Taiwan tool is a bit cynical in my opinion.

I think it's about 2x that for a wrench that is complete, I looked last night on eBay (for the SHLX80A, locking head which is what Id want). Sort of the point though, at 200ft lbs that's nothing for this thing right? And it's binding. Not sure what it would do at 400ft lbs, i don't trust my work bench. On my cars the only thing that tight is the axle nuts at 375ft and for that I have a 3/4 breaker and 34mm socket with a jack handle.

Anyway, I did a little more messing around tonight. Post following.

 

[AEAdam]

I think it's about 2x that for a wrench that is complete, I looked last night on eBay (for the SHLX80A, locking head which is what Id want). Sort of the point though, at 200ft lbs that's nothing for this thing right? And it's binding. Not sure what it would do at 400ft lbs, i don't trust my work bench. On my cars the only thing that tight is the axle nuts at 375ft and for that I have a 3/4 breaker and 34mm socket with a jack handle.

Anyway, I did a little more messing around tonight. Post following.

Whatever the list price is, the student discount is about 50% and you will find one on eBay eventually for that or less. I paid around $100 each for my 2 some years ago. They are more expensive now.

Remember, for Snap On tools at least, there is no rhyme or reason to the pricing on eBay. There is no seasonal effect, garage clean outs, etc. In Feb and March of this year there are completed listings around $150. Be smart and patient and you can buy whatever you want for virtually any price. Locking heads might be more, but I’d ask myself why I want that. SHLF80 heads aren’t floppy.

Good luck and I appreciate you sharing your adventures in this thread.

 

[spyerx]

For your entertainment … a 5/8 bolt cranked to 175 ft lbs in my janky light duty vise.

You can see the HF drive gear, the witness marks below the machined flange that rides in the groove head. Snap on doesn't have this.

I've changed my mind on the cause. Its tolerances are too tight. It needs a little more give to keep from getting bound up. I don't have a dial indicator to test this but the snap on (all my snap on and other ratchets) have more play in the drive gear mechanism.

Some videos following to show the issue.









This is spinning backdrag AFTER I cranked it with the full snap on drive kit inside the Icon ratchet (its fine, works as expected):

Back drag with icon internals, before cranking on bolt:

Binding after cranking on the bolt:

"Fixing" the ratchet

 

[mikey03]

What are you referring to, exactly? The experience from one user? I’d wait for some more corroborations before condemning the entire lineup.

And given that Snapon, KoKen, and Matco all recently had to revamp their ratchets to correct issues with the design, I don’t think this is an issue exclusive to HF.

yea but you got to wait for snap on to fix the design problem and for HF to copy the fix before it trickles down to the icon line

 

[spyerx]

Ok so wrapping this up. Got the snap on rebuild kit and face plate. Found an hardened washer that is the exact thickness of the head recess, shaved it down about .05mm in diameter and it drops right in the head. Installed it all. Golden. Used it a bunch today and zero issues. I really like the feel and locking head design and with the snap on internals it’s great. Ok not as good a deal. $140 with the kit.

It’s a keeper.

 

[moemc]

Ok not as good a deal. $140 with the kit.

or maybe $700-800 if you include your time involved in testing, documenting, and recording etc, or even thinking about it.

but I am aware you didn’t necessary know you were buying a time consuming project, and sometimes saving money just ends up costing us a lot more.

 

[spyerx]

or maybe $700-800 if you include your time involved in testing, documenting, and recording etc, or even thinking about it.

but I am aware you didn’t necessary know you were buying a time consuming project, and sometimes saving money just ends up costing us a lot more.

Ha right, my time is free for me

 

[mreisner]

Time spent learning is priceless. Sometimes it's expensive when you figure it by the hour, but the knowledge is priceless!
Now I'll be the first to admit that I've learned some priceless things that were useless, but it was fun figuring it out along the way.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Ok so wrapping this up. Got the snap on rebuild kit and face plate. Found an hardened washer that is the exact thickness of the head recess, shaved it down about .05mm in diameter and it drops right in the head. Installed it all. Golden. Used it a bunch today and zero issues. I really like the feel and locking head design and with the snap on internals it’s great. Ok not as good a deal. $140 with the kit.

It’s a keeper.

Re-reading the thread- did the Icon ratchet have issues from day one? Or was the interchange just for fun?

 

[spyerx]

Time spent learning is priceless. Sometimes it's expensive when you figure it by the hour, but the knowledge is priceless!
Now I'll be the first to admit that I've learned some priceless things that were useless, but it was fun figuring it out along the way.

I‘m the king of useless. It’s also fun to mess around with stuff…

Re-reading the thread- did the Icon ratchet have issues from day one? Or was the interchange just for fun?

Yeah, first use. Pulled it out of package to remove some wheels, and it bound up (like in the video). That’s when I pulled it apart and saw it looked identical to the snap on internals, so I tried the swap with my Dual 80 1/2” It worked! I exchanged the ratchet and the new one did the same thing. So I just bought a rebuild kit, called it a day. I like the rest of the ratchet (I’m a fan of the Armstrong/matco lock) and maybe for others they dont see this issue, but I did, and was able to replicate it on the bench vise… happy with the setup now, and used it a bunch yesterday and it works great.

I picked up one of their 1/4” flex G2 and it seems to work fine, and is as smooth as my snap on 1/4 ratchets. Really nice piece. Anyone who wants to mess around, the snap on compact 3/8 rebuilt is drop in also.

 

[spyerx]

Update. Not just me:

 

[MileHighRover]

How did HF not discover this during their testing phase of development? Seems like an insane oversight.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

How did HF not discover this during their testing phase of development? Seems like an insane oversight.

Snap on messed up the F100 it seems on 1st release. Looks bad on the product but it is what it is.

I can never figure out how it happens. Did we not make enough to confirm the extremes of the tolerance stack play well? Is our QC sloppy? Is our QC doing it's job but the tolerance isn't acceptable? Do we have a tooling problem?