Black Pipe- Gas Line?

[karoc]

This trip to my 1000sq ft retirement home which one of projects is running gas line(propane) through walls for dryer, stove, and tankless, and for outside outlet. Last time I purchase black pipe was to make some pipe clamps cause it was cheaper. Ouch to black pipe pricing, so going buy 20’ of 1/2 and 3/4 pipe and just cut/thread the lengths that I need. Be buying from Coburn which is local but wondering if all black pipe is same, is there something that I need to know before buying? Tks

 

[Firebrick43]

American made pipe threads much better is the basic difference.

Most of the Chinese **** it’s difficult to get no torn threads even with new dies and continuous cutting lube

I have seen some Turkish pipe that is in between.

 

[Dagny]

Fayett pipe is top notch but hard to find in wi. wheatland is easy to find here. Don't use china pipe for threading. supply house has USA fittings.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Note that the type of pipe used varies depending on where you live and what the local gas utility recommends - black pipe is pretty common but soft copper is also used, that's what I have in my house. It's commonly used for underground piping but I don't know if poly plastic line is approved for use inside a house.

 

[kaymccampbell]

American made is best, if you can get it. The last batch I bought was from India. For threading, it was far superior to the Chinese stuff I've dealt with.

 

[Firebrick43]

Note that the type of pipe used varies depending on where you live and what the local gas utility recommends - black pipe is pretty common but soft copper is also used, that's what I have in my house. It's commonly used for underground piping but I don't know if poly plastic line is approved for use inside a house.

Plastic is not allowed in the house for gas. Copper is with flared fittings.

 

[75gmck25]

There may be a code-based limit on the length, but when I had a gas fireplace installed they connected to my existing black pipe, and then ran at least 8-10 feet of the plastic coated CSST pipe up to the burner unit.

It seems CSST would have some type of protection required, since it's probably not going to handle an accidental nail puncture, but I'm not sure. All CSST pipe is also not the same, so they do not recommend mixing and matching brands. Each brand has a short training course or handout showing how to use their connections when you terminate the pipe. The brand sold by the big box stores was not the same as the brand sold by my plumbing supplier, so that made things a little more complicated when I needed to make some new runs.

 

[KenC]

There may be a code-based limit on the length, but when I had a gas fireplace installed they connected to my existing black pipe, and then ran at least 8-10 feet of the plastic coated CSST pipe up to the burner unit.

It seems CSST would have some type of protection required, since it's probably not going to handle an accidental nail puncture, but I'm not sure. All CSST pipe is also not the same, so they do not recommend mixing and matching brands. Each brand has a short training course or handout showing how to use their connections when you terminate the pipe. The brand sold by the big box stores was not the same as the brand sold by my plumbing supplier, so that made things a little more complicated when I needed to make some new runs.

In addition to the risk of puncture, there is also a consideration for bonding the CSST to protect from lightning. I've also ran into the different brand issues. Don't recall the names but one has a black coating and it's fittings don't rely on orings, but self flare the stainless liner when tightened. The other uses a multipiece fitting with an oring and is orange.

Both are easy to install, but more expensive than black pipe. OTOH it is much faster that cutting and threading.

I have two runs one is about 50 ft and replaced an original black pipe that rusted through. The other I installed to a new NG grill. I had a propane fire and wanted the next one to have an accessible shutoff even if burning! I really didn't like it when the pressure relief valve blew on the bottle! Sounded like a jet engine.

 

[Firebrick43]

Black csst that we recommend if one is going to use csst(we don’t recommend it at all) is flash shield. It has a stainless grounding sheath molded into the outer plastic jacket that makes it much more resistant to being holed by lightning if bonded correctly with a number 6 bare copper wire

We find a lot of very small leaks at the terminations of csst after it’s been in place 5 or 10 years.

Have found several new build leaks with nail or screw pe iterations. Fun to find in walls. One new build had 4 siding nails in a 4’ vertical run of csst.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Do you have the means to cut, thread and hold the pipe while doing so ?

 

[kctgb]

I don’t know much about black pipe made in China. I’m a welder, American steel is way better to weld than Chinese steel. I can tell it’s Chinese steel as soon as I light up on it.

 

[carlaisle]

Times 1,000 on threading the Chinesium pipe. Might work as a closet rod.

 

[karoc]

Do you have the means to cut, thread and hold the pipe while doing so ?

Yes sir that I do, ole father inlaw was pipe fitter which he past some of his tools to me. I have ratchet 1/2,3/4 dies and pipe vise and Porta-band to cut but no pipe reamer. Just squirt oil can. Yea it’s old school but to buy pipe that’s cut to length is expensive. But it’s not big project, longest pipe run is about 15’ from utility rm to my back porch for outlet. Dryer, tankless is right together and stove is about 8’ away from dryer on adjacent wall. As slow as I am maybe couple days

 

[NUTTSGT]

Yes sir that I do, ole father inlaw was pipe fitter which he past some of his tools to me. I have ratchet 1/2,3/4 dies and pipe vise and Porta-band to cut but no pipe reamer. Just squirt oil can. Yea it’s old school but to buy pipe that’s cut to length is expensive. But it’s not big project, longest pipe run is about 15’ from utility rm to my back porch for outlet. Dryer, tankless is right together and stove is about 8’ away from dryer on adjacent wall. As slow as I am maybe couple days

That is cool that he passed some of them to you.

I used a junk drill bit as a reamer when I did my air lines... probably not the correct way but it worked for me.

 

[Skooterj]

Pex, pex, pex....

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[LopezBart]

When I extended the gas lines in our 1930's house in San Jose 30+ years ago, getting good quality fittings was important - the US-made stuff was far better than the stuff from Thailand or wherever. It's now easy to get good quality Ward fittings from SupplyHouse.com. Rethreading old rusty joints on my back in an 18" crawlspace, trying to get the existing pipe to pass inspection, was definitely a low point in that remodel. If you've not done this before, remember to use left-right couplings rather than unions; a lesson I learned the hard way.

 

[dave*99]

I had a small old house once with similar needs. Gas for stove, dryer, tankless WH and grill. Plumber used CSST. All appliances were on home runs to a manifold. The manifold was electrically bonded. Done in 1 day. There was a crawl space so this was easy and there were minimal chances for nails hitting the CSST.
I have the tools and skills to thread black iron. I'm glad I didn't use them.

 

[larry4406]

I had a small old house once with similar needs. Gas for stove, dryer, tankless WH and grill. Plumber used CSST. All appliances were on home runs to a manifold. The manifold was electrically bonded. Done in 1 day. There was a crawl space so this was easy and there were minimal chances for nails hitting the CSST.
I have the tools and skills to thread black iron. I'm glad I didn't use them.

I will be the contrarian.

I detest CSST. Black pipe all the way. I will never install it in my personal house nor would I recommend it. At the day job I pressure our contracts manager to forbid plumber from using it.

I’ve chased more leaks in CSST than black pipe.

CSST dangles vertically in a stud bay. Siding nails puncture it with ease and no way to kick plate protect it since it’s dangling in the stud bay. Wainscot paneling nails and pow gas leak. You name it. Nails bounce off black pipe.

CSST dumbs down the skill set to that of a hose puller and shifts the risk and added costs to other trades. Often looks like a spaghetti mess. Added bonding (by electrician and not the plumber mind you) at the meter.

The installs I’ve had, we had to determine location of distribution manifold and Max-trol regulator. Can be challenging in small mechanical rooms (ie townhouse).

OP - stay black pipe with quality materials.

 

[dave*99]

I will be the contrarian.

I detest CSST. Black pipe all the way. I will never install it in my personal house nor would I recommend it. At the day job I pressure our contracts manager to forbid plumber from using it.

I’ve chased more leaks in CSST than black pipe.

CSST dangles vertically in a stud bay. Siding nails puncture it with ease and no way to kick plate protect it since it’s dangling in the stud bay. Wainscot paneling nails and pow gas leak. You name it. Nails bounce off black pipe.

CSST dumbs down the skill set to that of a hose puller and shifts the risk and added costs to other trades. Often looks like a spaghetti mess. Added bonding (by electrician and not the plumber mind you) at the meter.

The installs I’ve had, we had to determine location of distribution manifold and Max-trol regulator. Can be challenging in small mechanical rooms (ie townhouse).

OP - stay black pipe with quality materials.

I feel your pain. All my drops went straight through the floor with the appropriate CSST flanged transitions. None in the walls. All the CSST was in the crawl space and visible.

 

[Steve_P]

I'll also say go with all USA made pipe and fittings if you can find it. The two plants I worked at would only buy USA made because they had so much trouble getting the imported stuff to seal; the imports ended up costing many times more in extra labor vs the USA price premium over imported.

 

[karoc]

I did buy domestic fittings from Supply House, the 1/2 & 3/4 pipe I purchase from Coburns. I’ll have look for tag see it pipe was made in US or not. Thanks for suggestions

 

[mike93lx]

I will be the contrarian.

I detest CSST. Black pipe all the way. I will never install it in my personal house nor would I recommend it. At the day job I pressure our contracts manager to forbid plumber from using it.

I’ve chased more leaks in CSST than black pipe.

CSST dangles vertically in a stud bay. Siding nails puncture it with ease and no way to kick plate protect it since it’s dangling in the stud bay. Wainscot paneling nails and pow gas leak. You name it. Nails bounce off black pipe.

CSST dumbs down the skill set to that of a hose puller and shifts the risk and added costs to other trades. Often looks like a spaghetti mess. Added bonding (by electrician and not the plumber mind you) at the meter.

The installs I’ve had, we had to determine location of distribution manifold and Max-trol regulator. Can be challenging in small mechanical rooms (ie townhouse).

OP - stay black pipe with quality materials.

I have a lot of csst in my house. Feeding the two furnaces on the third floor and the furnace and water heater on the first floor. The only black iron is a header in the crawl space. House was built in 2003

No leaks, that I am aware of. But it looks like absolute ****. Thankfully the house is all brick, so I don't have siding nails to worry about, at least.

I definitely wouldn't use it for a new build