Tools of Japan

[rick carpenter]

Talked to Vessel and we have sets of their powergrip screwdrivers on the way. They have a phillips/slotted set as well as a torx and metric hex.

We do carry the Top Hyper Monkey Zero adjustables and you are right, they are awesome.

Also visited with the Japanese tool reps that flew in on Monday. Showed them this thread of course. They were the original ones to bring Tru-Craft over many years ago so they have relationships with lots of smaller Japanese manufacturers that go back a long way. Tru-Craft was basically a "Craftsman" business model and looking at some of their tools they do look similar to the old craftsman too, raised panels and what not. Anyway, I explained what we were looking for so hopefully we can find some interesting stuff that hasn't made it to the US market yet. We even talked about possibly importing US tools to Japan so I think it will work out for everyone.

Consider Vessel cushion grip dedicated screwdrivers and Anex replaceable bit handles.

 

[autobon7]

The main line is good bang for the buck for sure. The problem is still deceptive labeling and major price hikes on the lesser known stuff.

Facom I don't agree, it's quite expensive. Tho I will say the quality is top for sure. Everything I own from them ranks with snap-on or whoever you want in quality.

Depends on where you look (Facom). Over the years I have gotten outstanding deals through Ultimate Garage, Griots Garage, Ebay, Amazon, Epsteins, and Zoro. I have a whole lot of Facom and extremely happy with the quality. Just starting to buy Tone and very impressed.

 

[Steel_Rain]

Yes, they are deceptive about COO, but if you can get past that, and just assume it's made in Taiwan

I have accepted it. I’d rather they just say “made in Taiwan” instead of roll stamping “Japan” on the stuff tho. Even the tags on many of the TONE wrenches (and the boxes they come in) say “made in Japan” and that’s deceptive. I think much of the stuff they produce is “finished” in Japan, but the materials and major components/production work isn’t. That said, Taiwan makes good products these days.

 

[moemc]

Got my IPS DVM-135 in a Blackship package today. Ordered them from IPS Japan website the same day Andres26tnt showed them off. But they are already on Amazon Japan now for $17 USD, so if had just waited a week or 2, I could have paid half as much for them as I did.

 

[moemc]

Some other misc stuff. I’m on a screwdriver / t-handle thing lately which is follow-up to a recent Felo bender I was on, so I ordered some others from Amazon.jp. Finished my M160 wrench set. Picked up a single KTC socket just because I had none and some people here were talking about them, so I wanted to sample.

 

[C4-621]

I have some Tone tools and have been following the speculation about the mysterious COO of the ratchets for a few years now.
A few days ago there was a discussion on the Facebook group "Tool Truck Pirates" and the following reply from Tone was posted:


Thanks for reaching out and for your support of Tone ratchets. I can confirm that all of the models you mentioned (RH3CH, RH4H, RH2FHX, RH4FHL, RH4FCHS) are manufactured in our factory in Japan. In fact, every Tone ratchet handle we produce—past, present, and future—is proudly made in Japan under the same stringent quality controls, regardless of packaging or marking variations.
If you have any more questions or need further details, just let me know.
Best regards,
==================================
TONE AMERICAS, INC.
Technical Manager
Ryohta Vijayendra Kumeria


That seems like a rather definitive answer, so what are everyone's thoughts? Obviously the ratchets look similar to those made by Hi-Five in Taiwan, but there seems to be no actual proof that Tone products that have gone through the trouble of getting "Japan" stamped on them are actually made in Taiwan. Isn't there some other more likely possibility, such as the ratchets are designed by and licensed from Hi-Five and made by Tone?

As an aside, I have several Vessel products, and the COO on the packaging ranges from "Made in Japan", "Produced by Japan" because apparently the screwdrivers were grown there, and "Japan Origin" on what are Taiwanese bits, but I haven't seen much complaints regarding Vessel.

 

[Etchase]

So Tone makes the handle. Not the most critical part of a ratchet. Taiwan makes really good mechanisms. I don’t know what the rules are for marking something with Japan. Whatever the rules are Japan really values quality.

 

[Andres26tnt]

I have some Tone tools and have been following the speculation about the mysterious COO of the ratchets for a few years now.
A few days ago there was a discussion on the Facebook group "Tool Truck Pirates" and the following reply from Tone was posted:


Thanks for reaching out and for your support of Tone ratchets. I can confirm that all of the models you mentioned (RH3CH, RH4H, RH2FHX, RH4FHL, RH4FCHS) are manufactured in our factory in Japan. In fact, every Tone ratchet handle we produce—past, present, and future—is proudly made in Japan under the same stringent quality controls, regardless of packaging or marking variations.
If you have any more questions or need further details, just let me know.
Best regards,
==================================
TONE AMERICAS, INC.
Technical Manager
Ryohta Vijayendra Kumeria


That seems like a rather definitive answer, so what are everyone's thoughts? Obviously the ratchets look similar to those made by Hi-Five in Taiwan, but there seems to be no actual proof that Tone products that have gone through the trouble of getting "Japan" stamped on them are actually made in Taiwan. Isn't there some other more likely possibility, such as the ratchets are designed by and licensed from Hi-Five and made by Tone?

As an aside, I have several Vessel products, and the COO on the packaging ranges from "Made in Japan", "Produced by Japan" because apparently the screwdrivers were grown there, and "Japan Origin" on what are Taiwanese bits, but I haven't seen much complaints regarding Vessel.

That's has always been their response to the question. Except we have actual evidence on the contrary. The have also been quoted on saying their overseas sold items are made elsewhere. But does it really matter? Imo not really, the tools are quality anyway, they also don't cost a lot.

 

[Professor Gascan]

Does anyone here know if any of the Japanese tool companies make 1/4 bit socket adapters that fit the longer 13mm bit retention length?

 

[danski0224]

I think much of the stuff they produce is “finished” in Japan, but the materials and major components/production work isn’t.

Sort of like "Made in USA with global materials"?

 

[Andres26tnt]

Does anyone here know if any of the Japanese tool companies make 1/4 bit socket adapters that fit the longer 13mm bit retention length?

Vessel I believe, they have exclusive products for the American market.

 

[mituzuna]

What is the Japanese equivalent of Lindstrom, Knipex, Erem cutter and pliers?
ive heard good things on Japanese cutters and pliers but dont know who makes the equivalent of Lindstrom, Knipex, Swiss made Erem.

 

[pizza]

imo it's more productive to give a specific example of a tool model you like and ask for the best jp equiv(s)

if you mean the smaller pliers like more electronics and jewelers stuff, idk, i think erem, lindstrom, swanstrom, and tronex are better than the jp ones.

keiba is nice though https://www.keiba-tool.com/en/keiba/products/productskeiba-category/use/hobby/

 

[spyerx]

I don’t have a lot of Japanese tools, so plan to fill some holes in my pile on a trip in July. (I have family there).

Here are a few unique things that are super useful.

Some of my Koken.

First their stud sockets. Love these. They don’t get used too much but when i need them they are great and they don’t damage the studs.

Second are non-marring impact sockets. They are aluminum. They are crazy nice made. I have all aluminum and also a piece that has a replaceable insert.

I mostly use these on aluminum Porsche lug nuts.

Like the pic below.

 

[spyerx]

Couple more pics of that insert socket. Look how nice this is made

 

[F-22]

Couple more pics of that insert socket. Look how nice this is made

Very cool, had no idea something like that exists.

Would love to have a set but just to use manually on my own cars, since it wouldn't scratch anything.

 

[spyerx]

Very cool, had no idea something like that exists.

Would love to have a set but just to use manually on my own cars, since it wouldn't scratch anything.

Out of curiosity I was checking out the Koken catalog, they may not make these any longer. They were also sold by BETA (Europe) but made by Koken. IIRC there were at least 3 sizes 17, 19, 21mm for lugs. They do offer the all aluminum deep impact still. It's not too $ About $30. You can find them as AN14300-19 (last 2 digits are size)

 

[moemc]

I have their lug sockets with the replaceable plastic covers. Since they sell the plastic cover sleeves as a replacement item, I picked up a couple extra that fortunately fit well enough onto some standard/imperial sockets I use for aluminum assemblies.

The way the plastic sleeve wraps around the front of the socket, it prevents the slight marring the sockets were leaving on the anodizing of these parts when assembling and torquing.

it made me feel like, any socket manufacturer could be putting a slight retention groove around the outside of all their sockets, for the sake of holding these style plastic sleeves. Offer them in every diameter and im sure plenty of tool collectors wouldnt mind having a whole set that’s wrapped.

 

[F-22]

I have their lug sockets with the replaceable plastic covers. Since they sell the plastic cover sleeves as a replacement item, I picked up a couple extra that fortunately fit well enough onto some standard/imperial sockets I use for aluminum assemblies.

The way the plastic sleeve wraps around the front of the socket, it prevents the slight marring the sockets were leaving on the anodizing of these parts when assembling and torquing.

it made me feel like, any socket manufacturer could be putting a slight retention groove around the outside of all their sockets, for the sake of holding these style plastic sleeves. Offer them in every diameter and im sure plenty of tool collectors wouldnt mind having a whole set that’s wrapped.

But as I understand, the plastic is only on the top of the lug nut "cap" and at the end of the socket, but not actually between the inner socket walls and the lug nut?

That's what I find interesting on the alloy ones. I always torque down my wheels myself, and when swapping tires I take the wheels off and take them to a tire shop to get them swapped, then put them back on myself. Just to ensure everything is properly greased and inspected (always also spray some krown oil underneath when I have the wheels off, to keep the rust away).

Regular sockets do rub off the chrome eventually, even when hand-tightened. The alloy ones probably wouldn't. And if hand tightening, I doubt they'd wear out that fast either since they're made for an impact gun.

 

[moemc]

But as I understand, the plastic is only on the top of the lug nut "cap" and at the end of the socket, but not actually between the inner socket walls and the lug nut?

That's what I find interesting on the alloy ones. I always torque down my wheels myself, and when swapping tires I take the wheels off and take them to a tire shop to get them swapped, then put them back on myself. Just to ensure everything is properly greased and inspected (always also spray some krown oil underneath when I have the wheels off, to keep the rust away).

Regular sockets do rub off the chrome eventually, even when hand-tightened. The alloy ones probably wouldn't. And if hand tightening, I doubt they'd wear out that fast either since they're made for an impact gun.

You are correct, the plastic sleeve versions I am talking about are protecting only the wheels, not the lugnuts as well. You might consider the surface drive sockets for lugs if you were looking to preserve them. As I understand it, the surface drive will spread out the force on a larger area of the flats and reduce marring and damage to the hex.

 

[moemc]

I stumbled on this just now: https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/STRAIGHT-12-3255-Joint-Pliers-inches/dp/B0CQNTYCRN/

Appears to be a private labeled IPS DVM-135 only slightly more coarse serrations at the tip.

and while at it... not made in Japan but this is interesting: https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/Workpro-Combination-Pliers-Cutter-Handmade/dp/B0DKJ6RZVP/

Another snap-on slip joint needle nose inspired tool. The jaw tips are clearly modeled after the Snap On

 

[Outahere]

......I mostly use these on aluminum Porsche lug nuts........

I thought Porsche used lug bolts, not lug nuts?
Being made of aluminum, aren't the threads easily damaged?

 

[F-22]

I thought Porsche used lug bolts, not lug nuts?
Being made of aluminum, aren't the threads easily damaged?

I think Porsche is one of the few European cars with lug nuts, but possibly some models had lug bolts too.

Yes they probably damage very easily. But if everything is done correctly, they must function fine. Most lug nuts have a lot of "safety" engineered into them as many people overtorque them like crazy at home - the aluminum ones will definitely not last when someone does that.

Bigger issue is that they probably wear out eventually. Way faster than steel ones would.

 

[spyerx]

Older porsches used steel lug studs with aluminum nuts (ie Fuchs). Some will use/have used steel lugs. I use lugs and studs on my track cars (MSI studs/lugs). Newer cars (starting with 993 or 964, I forget which) they switched to lug bolts. Those are steel. Ball seat, different than most makers who use conical seats.

The factory install on the aluminum lug bolts has anti-seize on the seat (not threads) to minimize seizing to the aluminum wheel.

I've not had issues with the aluminum lugs on my cars but I don't use power tools on them. And neither does the shop I use.

 

[William Payne]

A YouTube channel I like did a neat video on a used tool store in Japan. Though I do have to question the logic of someone in the comments who asked why all the tools in the Japanese tool store were Japanese, and why there weren’t dewalt or Milwaukee. Who would have thought there would be Japanese tools in Japan? (Is that sarcastic enough).

 

[rick carpenter]

Got in this Wise SBL-1000 hex key set today. To say they're substantial is to say the least. The 10mm is 227mm x 36mm and the 1.5mm is 80mm x 14mm. They're advertised that their ball end can be used for 'final tightening'. I thought I would find them a home in my USGen mini box but they're too big.

 

[F-22]

 

[spyerx]

Question for those of you who have a lot of Koken:

I'll been Japan in July (I have family there). I want to pickup a full set of shallow/deep probably 1/2 and 3/8 sockets. Possibly extensions. I like my snap on ratchets.

In looking at these, they have:
shallow
semi
deep

But, they have them in Z and Regular.

Is there a reason to get Regular over Z for most use? or vise Versa? Or would you get shallow with Z and the rest regular?

Curious the thoughts. I do have a few Koken regular sockets and love their fit and machining, very nice.

And, they are CHEAP in Japan with the Yen USD right now (a set here that is $250 USD is like $125 USD when bought there)

thanks

 

[Dave455]

Question for those of you who have a lot of Koken:

I'll been Japan in July (I have family there). I want to pickup a full set of shallow/deep probably 1/2 and 3/8 sockets. Possibly extensions. I like my snap on ratchets.

In looking at these, they have:
shallow
semi
deep

But, they have them in Z and Regular.

Is there a reason to get Regular over Z for most use? or vise Versa? Or would you get shallow with Z and the rest regular?

Curious the thoughts. I do have a few Koken regular sockets and love their fit and machining, very nice.

And, they are CHEAP in Japan with the Yen USD right now (a set here that is $250 USD is like $125 USD when bought there)

thanks

I’ve got both regular and Z Series, and rate them both highly.

If in doubt, go for the regular.

In shallow sockets, the Z are absolutely superb where space is tight. If you want them for that role, go for them. But they are shallow, and for general use if you have any amount of protruding bolt, they just won’t allow full engagement.

Regular vs Z Series 17mm below.


For deep sockets (or semi deep) that’s not an issue, but you will be paying more money for a relatively small overall size reduction. If you’ve got to get them somewhere really tight that might be worth it. Only you can decide.

If you are looking at 1/2” drive, then I don’t think you have any option, it has to be regular deep as I don’t think they offer Z series deep in 1/2” drive.

 

[moemc]

^^^ what he said. I have Z series in each 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 drive, but only the shallow ones, because that’s where you really notice the difference.

You do get the nicer magnetic rail with the Z series though, so factor that into the price if the rail is worth anything to you.

Outside of that, I haven’t purchased normal hex sockets from Koken. I have several of their unique sockets, and none of those seem to be based on the Z series as a starting point. Some of them maybe share characteristics where the application warrants it… such as the thinwall spark plug sockets for 14mm might be more slim than a non-z deep 14 is.

So I would say you are on point to figure the Z series for shallow and whatever you find a deal on for the rest.

When it comes to bit sockets, (internal hex, torx, etc), I have been loading up on kokens for that lately. The Zs have a little material reduction on the side close to the bit, but I don’t imagine any scenarios it makes a difference. A once in a lifetime advantage I’m sure.

 

[Hakeem]

Z-series fits really tightly and doesn’t have a lot of fastener engagement, they don’t seem like a “daily driver” type socket to me.

I bought this koken flexible extension on a whim and while it hasn’t really been useful for access like I imagined, it’s been great for oil changes. I’m able to get the drain plug out without a drop of oil getting on me. Sorry I don’t have a better photo of the tool itself:

 

[Andres26tnt]

The Z line is specialty sockets, made for tight spaces with tight tolerances. Great quality, can be used everyday. I used the everyday, still haven't found them to be super tight. The normal line is also good and cheaper I find. Most don't need the Z imo, the regular line is really good and also has complete sizes with no skips.

 

[Samuel D]

I have wondered why the Z-series sockets are so low profile when the Z-series ratchets, although very small in head diameter, are kinda deep. Offsets some of the socket advantage.

 

[Professor Gascan]

The 3/8 in a 1/4 bodies from koken look like some of the thinnest ratchets available.

 

[Samuel D]

The 3/8 in a 1/4 bodies from koken look like some of the thinnest ratchets available.

Good point. Though they’re also tiny, delicate things – again by the look of them. Not exactly general purpose.

In a twist of fate, I have a 2725ZB-3/8 winging its way to me from Mister Worker, so I’ll soon see for myself how that goes.

 

[General Geoff]

The 3/8 in a 1/4 bodies from koken look like some of the thinnest ratchets available.

They are absolutely tiny, I have the long handle one! But even with the Zeal shallow sockets, the setup is still way thicker than an Astro nano socket setup. The Koken 3/8 in a 1/4 body is still better for generally cramped areas as opposed to a specific choke point right above the fastener head.

 

[Professor Gascan]

They are absolutely tiny, I have the long handle one! But even with the Zeal shallow sockets, the setup is still way thicker than an Astro nano socket setup. The Koken 3/8 in a 1/4 body is still better for generally cramped areas as opposed to a specific choke point right above the fastener head.

Yup, already having the Astro 3/8 and 1/4 nanos along with a Tone RH3CH, I can't really justify spending the dough on a Koken just to have it be redundant. But everyone who has one comes away impressed with them, as I'm sure you are.

 

[General Geoff]

But everyone who has one comes away impressed with them, as I'm sure you are.

Yep, I use the Koken all the time because of its almost-zero back drag and generally slim dimensions to fit into tight areas, but more often with deep sockets and/or extensions

 

[Pinne]

I'm looking to pick up some of the Eight tools hex tools. McMaster carries some, but wondering if anyone has a better source for them?

I'd be fine ordering in Japan and shipping to the US.

 

[DekNgo]

I'm looking to pick up some of the Eight tools hex tools. McMaster carries some, but wondering if anyone has a better source for them?

I'd be fine ordering in Japan and shipping to the US.

MSC carries them but their prices are pretty steep.