Parts washer pump safety - 110v/220v/240v submerged

[spv]

As the title says, how safe are auto parts washers? On the surface running 110 to 240volts into a pump that is submerged in all sorts of chemicals is potentially asking to get electrocuted

I thought that parts washer pumps would be running 12 volts (safe voltage). Over time the seals are bound to get eaten away and it seems like a real hazard.

Thoughts?

A pic of the sort I am talking about can be seen here http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200006774_200006774

 

[toolchaser]

Dont worry, that pump will fail long before the seals give out. The one I had didn't last 3 months

 

[spv]

Agh. Not exactly confidence inspiring. I don't fancy being electrocuted..

 

[MattT]

If they were seriously dangerous I don't reckon anyone would dare sell 'em. If you're that concerned just run it on a GFCI outlet.

 

[spv]

If they were seriously dangerous I don't reckon anyone would dare sell 'em. If you're that concerned just run it on a GFCI outlet.

I would like to believe what you are saying but upon inspecting my new parts washer it is clear. They run lethal voltage right into the submerged pump. There is no "wall wart" to bring the voltage down to a safe level. Sure we can run breakers at the box to save us in the event it does ground, but that is not really the point. According to my Electrician if the plug does not have 3 pins there is nothing that the breaker will do to save your life.

The voltage that goes to the pump is lethal. The pump sits under the chemical wash. No doubt the pump has rubber o-rings, which can easily be eaten away by chemical solvents. This looks like an accident waiting to happen.

Does anyone know of a good 12v pump for a parts washer?

 

[MattT]

Sure we can run breakers at the box to save us in the event it does ground, but that is not really the point. According to my Electrician if the plug does not have 3 pins there is nothing that the breaker will do to save your life.

If your "electrician" had half a clue he would recommend a GFCI which is designed to prevent electrocution not a breaker. These trip with the slightest current leakage to earth through you or the parts washer. Might also be worth grounding the parts washer separately if the pump only has a 2 pin plug.

Does anyone know of a good 12v pump for a parts washer?

Diesel transfer pump might work depending on what fluid you're using.

 

[spv]

If your "electrician" had half a clue he would recommend a GFCI which is designed to prevent electrocution not a breaker. These trip with the slightest current leakage to earth through you or the parts washer. Might also be worth grounding the parts washer separately if the pump only has a 2 pin plug.


Diesel transfer pump might work depending on what fluid you're using.

Good tip on the GFCI. I will check with my electrician to determine if one is installed. Gut feel tells me NO, as I know it has a 16amp breaker which is not the same as a GFCI. I might have to get one installed. I will also ground the parts washer. These cheap Chinese items cannot really be trusted.

The intention of my electrician was not to stop electrocution with the breaker, more trying to stop me causing a fire by overloading the 15amp line with my Welder and Compressor.

Thanks also for the Diesel transfer pump. I will check these out.

 

[crewchief888]

Good tip on the GFCI. I will check with my electrician to determine if one is installed. Gut feel tells me NO, as I know it has a 16amp breaker which is not the same as a GFCI. I might have to get one installed. I will also ground the parts washer. These cheap Chinese items cannot really be trusted.

The intention of my electrician was not to stop electrocution with the breaker, more trying to stop me causing a fire by overloading the 15amp line with my Welder and Compressor.

Thanks also for the Diesel transfer pump. I will check these out.

if you have a 15 circuit, a welder and a compressor

a parts washer is the least of your issues

 

[spv]

if you have a 15 circuit, a welder and a compressor

a parts washer is the least of your issues

15 amp line is fine for the compressor or the welder. Both are rated at 13amps max draw. I do not run them at the same time. That would be more than stupid.

 

[crewchief888]

I would like to believe what you are saying but upon inspecting my new parts washer it is clear. They run lethal voltage right into the submerged pump. There is no "wall wart" to bring the voltage down to a safe level. Sure we can run breakers at the box to save us in the event it does ground, but that is not really the point. According to my Electrician if the plug does not have 3 pins there is nothing that the breaker will do to save your life.

The voltage that goes to the pump is lethal. The pump sits under the chemical wash. No doubt the pump has rubber o-rings, which can easily be eaten away by chemical solvents. This looks like an accident waiting to happen.

Does anyone know of a good 12v pump for a parts washer?

by your logic, since 110v to the pump is potentially lethal, then why are primary sump pumps 110v, and not 12v?

 

[MattT]

Gut feel tells me NO, as I know it has a 16amp breaker which is not the same as a GFCI.

Both are rated at 13amps max draw.

Are you in the UK? If yes you need an ELCB not a GFCI. Pretty much the same thing just a different name.

 

[Chris_R/T]

by your logic, since 110v to the pump is potentially lethal, then why are primary sump pumps 110v, and not 12v?

I was thinking along the same line. Seriously OP, I think you are worrying about a whole lot of nothing.

 

[spv]

I was thinking along the same line. Seriously OP, I think you are worrying about a whole lot of nothing.

Here in Australia we are running 240 volts. I am talking about a cheap Chinese plastic unit that takes a voltage input of 240volts. This pump is exposed to corrosive chemicals daily and it has to be a lethal hazard over time without the relevant protection mechanisms at the box. Additionally, I would not mind betting that they are running high voltage to the switch mechanism which does not even have a rubber gasket. It is fine to be cavalier about this, but the simple fact is that it runs high voltage into a pump that spends its useful life pumping corrosive chemicals around.

For those that think that said sump pumps running high voltages are completely safe a quick Google search brings up numerous examples of people being electrocuted by said equipment. Here are two recent events:
- http://www.columbiamissourian.com/s...heast-missouri-mans-electrocution-accidental/
- http://www.kfvs12.com/global/story.asp?s=12782862

Thanks for the tip on the ELCB. It looks like they may be more common here than GFCI's.

 

[bradweingartner]

Those two recent events are actually the same event.

240v is dangerous, yes, doubt. Electrocution is a serious hazard, yes, agreed. But there are literally millions of submersible high voltage pumps in service around the world that run everything from sumps to ponds to fish tanks to parts cleaners. I've never heard of anybody being electrocuted to death by one. The link you sent was light on the details, he could have been electrocuted plugging the damn thing in.

A proper GFCI circuit is absolutely required whenever running any pump in a conductive aqueous solution. It reduces the electrocution risk practically to zero.

In any case if you don't trust the chinese pump, why not buy a high quality domestically produced unit and stop fearing for your life?

A lot of to-do about nothing IMO.

 

[nikonica]

Your parts washer pump is grounded. It's perfectly safe. It won't electrocute you even if it's submerged in water.