Doing some maintenance on a John Deere riding lawn tractor for a neighbor. I went to drain the oil and this is the oil drain cap. It’s a plastic cap that’s held on with the ****** on the drain tube and friction from the O ring on the drain tube. I’m no engineer but this looks like an accident waiting to happen. I’m advising the owner to have the drain tube replaced with 1/2” NPT pipe with a cap. This is ridiculous John Deere!
John Deere accident waiting to happen.
- Thread starter kctgb
- Start date
Snapped-off
Well-known member
Been like that for years. Same with their drain hoses.
Maybe you could consult for them?
Maybe you could consult for them?
When the O ring gets a flat surface on it that damn plastic cap will fall off from less friction. John Deere has done some idiotic things, this is at the top of the list. I did call the local Deere dealer about this stupid drain cap. The dealer told me to replace the drain tube with pipe. Obviously this is an issue with this drain cap.
mrb1
Well-known member
Have had two or three JD's over the years with that drain. Did the swap on one of them. Problems are usually due to somebody not knowing how they work and grabbing some Vise-Grips or Channellocks and just destroying the end. Works fine otherwise. Go to Lowe's and get ya $5 worth of pipe and fitting.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
So replace the oring yearly. 20 cents. Just like you should with crush washers on drain plugs. Its not like pipe caps don't get properly tightened and fall off from vibration or over tightened and deform thread from constant disassembly
What size riding tractor or is it specific to a certain line of engine brand ?
Deck size really doesn't matter, I was referring to the size of the rider itself. My X350 w/ 21.5 hp Kaw doesn't have that type of fitting but it does have a twist off fitting that can be undone by hand.
whateg01
Well-known member
I know I don't watch the news religiously, but I don't recall hearing a story about all the problems JD owners have with that cap. Dunno what makes you think it's "obviously" a problem. Just because the dealer says to replace it with a piece of pipe? He probably gets tired of know-it-alls telling him it's a bad design and says that to get rid of them.
Probably void the warranty too.
Snapped-off
Well-known member
Did you leave a tail on that zip tie? That pisses me off more than the stupid cap. Check out the flush cut thread.
I do think it's a pretty dumb design, but it ain't a new one.
I do think it's a pretty dumb design, but it ain't a new one.
I wouldn’t call myself a know it all. I have been cranking wrenches for 48 years. I know a bad design when I see it. I know the JD dealer personally, he wouldn’t tell me that to appease me. He makes a lot of money off me on parts.
I work on a lot of JD stuff, not a lot of home owner stuff, this is the first drain cap I’ve seen like this.
CraigStu
Well-known member
My Huskvarna had a short ****** w/ some kind of plastic thingy that was near impossible to release. I replaced it w/ a ****** about the same length as the one the OP shows but I put a 1/4 turn valve on the end. And a 90 elbow on the valve to direct the oil down. I thought about a cap but was thinking when I go to unscrew the cap it is about a 50% chance I would unscrew the ******.
finn
Well-known member
Have you ever, in your 48 years wrenching, encountered a drain cap that fell off?
If the design works, why should Deere redesign it because some old timer doesn’t like the way it looks, as long as there’s no warranty claim history of any significance.
Besides that, Deere doesn’t make the engines in their lawn mowers. That part would be designed, specified, and qualified by the engine manufacturer., be it Kawasaki, Briggs, Kohler, Honda, or whoever builds that particular engine.
If the design works, why should Deere redesign it because some old timer doesn’t like the way it looks, as long as there’s no warranty claim history of any significance.
Besides that, Deere doesn’t make the engines in their lawn mowers. That part would be designed, specified, and qualified by the engine manufacturer., be it Kawasaki, Briggs, Kohler, Honda, or whoever builds that particular engine.
Yes. I worked on three diesels that had the plug fall out. Obviously they weren’t properly torqued to specifications by the owner.
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I’ll take a Kawasaki engine over a Briggs any day. The brigs single cylinder 17 horse has a plastic cam shaft. They have had problems with them for years.
The sad fact is if the plastic cap fails, and it will, the engine will destroy itself before the driver knows what’s going on. Usually when there’s an oil leak someone sees an oil spot on the floor. That won’t happen with this idiotic cap.
whateg01
Well-known member
How many threads are there right here about replacing the standard drain plug on a car with a fumoto or similar because it eliminates unthreading a plug and makes it a toolless oil change. So Deere makes it a toolless oil change and it's suddenly the end of the world?
Apparently yes.
Queue some “right to repair” nonsense too.
Many lawnmowers have some type of plastic cap/valve and hose contraption for oil drains. If you’re changing it and it looks sketchy buy a new one. Or put something on there you like better. It’s like a crush washer on a drain plug.
I have a JD E170 that I just installed this exact drain on. I am a bit nervous about it but I check it before every start. That said - it beats the hell out of what came installed out of the factory.
Factory fits these with an “Easy Change” system. Basically an oversized filter with a check valve. In lieu of a proper drain and fill JD wants people to just swap the filter. If I remember correctly it replaces about half the engine oil when swapped, and they cost $60!!
Factory fits these with an “Easy Change” system. Basically an oversized filter with a check valve. In lieu of a proper drain and fill JD wants people to just swap the filter. If I remember correctly it replaces about half the engine oil when swapped, and they cost $60!!
I don’t own it. I’m doing the maintenance on it for a neighbor down the road. Believe me, I wouldn’t buy a lawn tractor with that idiotic drain cap. That’s shameful of JD to put something like that on anything.
cmandp
Well-known member
I dont see a huge problem with it. It seems like it would make it easier to change and thus I would change the oil more often.
Replace the cap and o-ring every year and even if you didn't I bet you wouldn't really have a problem.
Replace the cap and o-ring every year and even if you didn't I bet you wouldn't really have a problem.
whateg01
Well-known member
I'm sure Deere will miss you
I was able to buy the conversion kit from JD (this drain, plus a ****** for the oil filter), a wix filter, and oil for less than the cost of one “Easy Change”. I figure it’ll be around $20 next time I change it. Money well spent.
whateg01
Well-known member
It's still a quarter turn bayonet style cap. The owner could drive through a thicket and get the drain tube stuck in the fork of a tree and while flipping the mower over on it's side to get it out, the tree could twist the cap 1/4 turn and the cap would come off and the owner wouldn't know. I can just see all the warranty claims when that inevitably starts to happen.
finn
Well-known member
Our reliability guys used to hate those Fumoto plugs with a passion.
Every time some clueless consumer would install one and then proceed to shear it off because it hung below the pan of their diesel pickup, and make an engine failure claim, they would deny the claim.
They denied more than you would think.
Every time some clueless consumer would install one and then proceed to shear it off because it hung below the pan of their diesel pickup, and make an engine failure claim, they would deny the claim.
They denied more than you would think.
MileHighRover
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2018
- Messages
- 1,125
You're slipping. The appropriate response would be telling the owner to sell the mower (that's never given him any problems) and buy an $80,000 commercial industrial gold plated unmanned mower that can mow moon dust on an undiscovered moon in another galaxy, if needed, in order to properly mow his 4x10 foot swath of grass.
Yet again I leave GJ disappointed.
kngelv
Well-known member
The joys of the internet!? Sometimes I wonder if there is an AI bot on Garage Journal defending all the dumb things companies do to save a nickel. The guy posts a legitimate beef and gets a bunch of critiques by John Deere defenders - the same company that just announced huge job reductions in Iowa so they build more stuff in Mexico to save more nickels. The same guys with the negative comments are the same ones who will soon be waxing nostalgic for old Craftsman tools which were just "middle of the road" as opposed to the god-like pagan idolatry shown for them on this forum.
James
James
zkdiesel
Well-known member
Didn’t use uv protected zip tie. Will rot off well prior to next oil change
American Locomotive
Well-known member
Yup. Don't get why people are defending something that's obviously low-quality.
I honestly don't mind the quarter-turn quick release drain cap idea. I do mind that's a thin plastic piece of garbage being exposed to 250°F air-cooled-engine-oil and will invariably degrade, leak and break after just a few years.
A quick look online shows that there are plenty of people complaining about these caps either disappearing and the oil going everywhere, or them seeping/leaking for no apparent reason and needing to be replaced along with the o-ring. Further searching shows that John Deere only uses the cap on the lowest end "S100" series machines. Everything above that uses a valve of some sort, with the highest end X700 series using a proper brass ball valve. So they know it's ****.
Also, FWIW: This is also the series of mower that could have come equipped with the "30 second oil change" system, which is this weird giant proprietary oil filter that comes pre-filled with a 1 quart of oil and has a giant anti-spill valve on the bottom, locking you into $55 oil changes for your lawnmower until John Deere inevitably stops making their special filters and you have to scrap the machine because you literally can't change the oil filter anymore.
JD is not your friend.
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I would of used a metal hose clamp.
The x700 series are into 5 figures. The S100 is not meant to be a high end machine. The transaxle will probably **** out before the oil cap falls off. If you’re doing your maintenance you’ll notice if the cap is looking to be in bad condition. And you should check the oil and do a little pretrip inspection before you start mowing- every time.
Torque&Recoil
Well-known member
I was about to type that my JD doesn't have that type of drain, but American Locomotive summed it all up for me. Yes, my X728 does NOT have that type of oil drain. It has an unbelievably convenient oil drain. If somebody buys the absolute cheapest "thing" you can get, what do you expect ? I mean, I can appreciate people not wanting to spend money on a mower, but... what do you expect ? Santa Claus isn't going to make you a gold plated lawn mower. Sorry.. I just can't help myself here... apologies to all.
American Locomotive
Well-known member
It's still $2400. For that money, the oil should be contained by something better than a glorified plastic bottle cap. I don't think anyone is expecting the same high-end brass drain valve the X700 series has, but they can do better than that terrible cap.
...and to reiterate: plenty of complaints on the internet about the caps leaking or popping off unexpectedly.