Electric or propane?

[bams50]

New construction pole barn, 40 x 64 x 16‘ eave height. It will be insulated of course. We will be working on cars in there. Probably 50 to 55° is as warm as we will ever really want. We went with radiant in floor heat. we have two choices of fuel for the boiler: propane or electric. All other things being the same, for those of you with knowledge, what do you think would be better? Obviously electric is far simpler and dependable. The best thing is the fuel supply is unlimited and doesn’t need refilling. All things being equal, though, I’m guessing that electric would be a little more expensive to run. But again, it’s not like we’re heating it like a home.

Would love to hear your thoughts from knowledgeable people on which way to go.

 

[mike93lx]

What is your price per kwh and gallon?

 

[BillK]

It is going to depend on the cost for each in your area and how much you think those costs are going to change in the future.

 

[Firebrick43]

Obviously electric is far simpler and dependable.

Simpler maybe. Electric boilers do not have a good track record for dependability. Losing heating elements is pretty common. Propane boilers rarely just die, stoppages normally are associated with the need to be cleaned and once done your on your way.

The best thing is the fuel supply is unlimited and doesn’t need refilling.

Yea, that is why so many have propane powered back up generators

All things being equal, though, I’m guessing that electric would be a little more expensive to run. But again, it’s not like we’re heating it like a home.

Most places propane is typically cheaper except in areas with a lot of hydro electric generation.

Call a few propane suppliers (don’t call Amerigas or a Farrell owned place) and ask what the contract price of the winter is

 

[bams50]

What is your price per kwh and gallon?

I have not looked into that. At this point, I’m thinking in general terms, as in which is more efficient and durable. But definitely, the actual prices will be a factor.

 

[theoldwizard1]

All things being equal, though, I’m guessing that electric would be a little more expensive to run. But again, it’s not like we’re heating it like a home.

First, spend the money on insulation UNDER the floor ! Vapor barrier and at least 2" of foam board. 4' would be better. You don't want to heat the ground ! Also, you want to insulate the outer perimeter foundation down to the frost line.

Some of the cost of operation has to do with the cost of electricity and propane in YOUR AREA. Some places have very cheap electric rates. one benefit of propane is that you don't have worry about a blackout freezing your plumbing.

There is a third option. Air-to-water heat pump. These are fairly common in other parts of the world but are only recently showing up in the US. For even higher efficiency, you would want a ground water-to-water heat pump. A long blackout could freeze your plumbing.

 

[mike93lx]

I have not booked into that. At this point, I’m thinking in general terms, as in which is more efficient and durable. But definitely, the actual prices will be a factor.

Talking efficiency without price only works if you are concerned with things like carbon emissions. Otherwise, price is everything.

Fuel costs can easily outpaced maintenance or replacement costs, so I wouldn't treat it as an afterthought.

 

[BillK]

Have you already built this place ?

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I love my underfloor radiant heat (using a high efficiency natural gas boiler). If my choices were propane or electric, I might not have considered in floor radiant heat.

Propane is roughly twice as expensive as natural gas on a BTU equivalent basis (this can vary a lot....just ballparking it).

Power is roughly three times as expensive as natural gas when you compare something like a high efficiency gas boiler and and a standard electric boiler (using resistance heating similar to a normal electric water heater).

So taking a step back and ignoring the "radiant floor heat" part of your post.

Cheapest way for you to heat that is PART TIME (only heat it when you need to) with a propane fired hanging heater (80% efficient). This means you are going to shut it down when you're not working and only run it up when you're out there. No running water in the shop and that heater doesn't have a condensate line that can freeze.

Cheapest way for you to heat it FULL TIME....likely will be with an electric heat pump. Mini splits are all the rage.

If you're locked into radiant.

Cheapest way will be a (electric) water heat pump and to be perfectly honest I know nothing about them other than they are likely going to cost less than 1/3 what a normal electric boiler will cost to run.

Next cheapest will likely be a high efficiency propane fired boiler with a 500 gallon tank so you can get better pricing on your fuel.

Most expensive to operate (but cheapest to install) will be that electric (resistance) boiler.

 

[The Metric System]

If cost is not a factor I always prefer electric heat to combustion.

Electric is very easy to measure and control, and combustion introduces new hazards (CO, ignition source, leak risk) and hassles (tank refill, noise, smells) that generally don't exist for electricity.

I expect that once you look at the numbers you will find that combustion will be significantly cheaper per unit Watt of heating, and then cost will become a factor.

 

[gmcgeo]

New construction pole barn, 40 x 64 x 16‘ eave height. It will be insulated of course. We will be working on cars in there. Probably 50 to 55° is as warm as we will ever really want. We went with radiant in floor heat. we have two choices of fuel for the boiler: propane or electric. All other things being the same, for those of you with knowledge, what do you think would be better? Obviously electric is far simpler and dependable. The best thing is the fuel supply is unlimited and doesn’t need refilling. All things being equal, though, I’m guessing that electric would be a little more expensive to run. But again, it’s not like we’re heating it like a home.

Would love to hear your thoughts from knowledgeable people on which way to go.

When a electric makes sense.

Mild Winters: If your area rarely goes below freezing, a heat pump is more energy-efficient.
You Want Cooling Too: Heat pumps act as both a heater and air conditioner, saving space and equipment costs.
Cheaper Electricity: If your electric rates are very low compared to propane, the operating cost may be lower.
Incentives: Federal and state rebates for heat pumps can significantly cut upfront costs.

When Propane makes sense
Propane furnaces blow 120–140°F air, making the home feel warm fast.
If you’re already running propane for a stove, water heater, or generator, adding a furnace makes sense because you’re already storing fuel.
Propane furnaces have fewer moving parts than heat pumps, so they’re cheaper and easier to maintain.
Below ~30°F, heat pumps lose efficiency and may need expensive electric backup. (some Heat pumps can be efficient under 30 Deg)
Propane furnaces stay 100% effective even in subzero weather, giving you reliable heat.

 

[fitter30]

Lp 91,500 btu's per gallon
Electric is 3.41 btu per watt
Lp condensing boiler about 95% efficient 86,925 per gallon
Electric is 100% efficient
Have to figure all in price per btu. Taxs and if there's a delivery charge.
1/2" pex 32 btu per foot
Loops can't be longer than 300'
Boiler piping primary / secondary loops with micro bubbler for a air removal device
Only use boiler glycol
30 lbs of air pressure on loops during the pore till setup

 

[gmcgeo]

In Central PA Propane heating costs about 39% less per BTU than electric heat, based on these July 2025 PA averages.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

In Central PA Propane heating costs about 39% less per BTU than electric heat, based on these July 2025 PA averages.

That matches up with my expectations. If the OP is locked into radiant it would be cheaper to heat with high efficiency propane vs a standard electric boiler by about 1/3.

However according to DOE those heat pump water heaters can have a COP of 3 to 7. Again...I've never speced one. I've never used one. But if I was in the OP's situation with a preference to use power and need to heat a lot of water for heat loops...that's where I'd be looking.

Might start here: https://www.blueridgecompany.com/product/air-to-water-heat-pumps/435

 

[PoorUB]

I have not looked into that. At this point, I’m thinking in general terms, as in which is more efficient and durable. But definitely, the actual prices will be a factor.

Electric is more efficient, typically 100%. LPG may run from 80% to 95'ish% efficient. Neither have anything to do with actual operating costs. Electric boilers if installed properly can run virtually forever with very little repairs. I put an electric boiler in in in-laws home 20+ years go. I take a look at it once in a while and have done one repair to it in that time. An 80% LPG boiler will run years with very little maintenance, on the other hand a high efficiency LPG boiler will need service every year or two. Ignore them and they eat themselves alive.

Electricity costs change slowly and stay stable. You might see and increase every few years. LPG can go nuts in a few months. 10 years ago LPG was $7 a gallon and higher, but typically around $2.

To make a decision you need to know the utility costs in your area, including any taxes and monthly service charges. We pay about 10 cents a KWh, but with extras it gets to be 12 cents.

Cast iron LPG boilers are tough and generally trouble free, but they run around 80% efficiency. You can buy high efficiency boilers around 95% efficiency, but they cost 2-3 times the price and need more attention, so often the savings on fuel costs can be eaten up on the extra costs.

Post your LPG price and your KWh price and a few of us can calculate the cost per BTU of each. Sometimes utilities will give an off peak rate for electric, but they will controll your electric boiler and shut it off when the electrical demand on the grid is high. It makes it a good deal for electric floor heat.

 

[bams50]

First, spend the money on insulation UNDER the floor ! Vapor barrier and at least 2" of foam board. 4' would be better. You don't want to heat the ground ! Also, you want to insulate the outer perimeter foundation down to the frost line.

Some of the cost of operation has to do with the cost of electricity and propane in YOUR AREA. Some places have very cheap electric rates. one benefit of propane is that you don't have worry about a blackout freezing your plumbing.

There is a third option. Air-to-water heat pump. These are fairly common in other parts of the world but are only recently showing up in the US. For even higher efficiency, you would want a ground water-to-water heat pump. A long blackout could freeze your plumbing.

Of course we are insulating under the slab. The contractor doing the concrete does it all the time, and I’m letting him handle it.

Have you already built this place ?

yes, sir, the building is up and closed in, next is the floor, doors, and utilities. I put pictures of it in a post over on the garage gallery page.

If cost is not a factor I always prefer electric heat to combustion.

Electric is very easy to measure and control, and combustion introduces new hazards (CO, ignition source, leak risk) and hassles (tank refill, noise, smells) that generally don't exist for electricity.

I expect that once you look at the numbers you will find that combustion will be significantly cheaper per unit Watt of heating, and then cost will become a factor.

I really do not care for propane, for the reasons you and others mentioned.

 

[bams50]

Electric is more efficient, typically 100%. LPG may run from 80% to 95'ish% efficient. Neither have anything to do with actual operating costs. Electric boilers if installed properly can run virtually forever with very little repairs. I put an electric boiler in in in-laws home 20+ years go. I take a look at it once in a while and have done one repair to it in that time. An 80% LPG boiler will run years with very little maintenance, on the other hand a high efficiency LPG boiler will need service every year or two. Ignore them and they eat themselves alive.

Electricity costs change slowly and stay stable. You might see and increase every few years. LPG can go nuts in a few months. 10 years ago LPG was $7 a gallon and higher, but typically around $2.

To make a decision you need to know the utility costs in your area, including any taxes and monthly service charges. We pay about 10 cents a KWh, but with extras it gets to be 12 cents.

Cast iron LPG boilers are tough and generally trouble free, but they run around 80% efficiency. You can buy high efficiency boilers around 95% efficiency, but they cost 2-3 times the price and need more attention, so often the savings on fuel costs can be eaten up on the extra costs.

Post your LPG price and your KWh price and a few of us can calculate the cost per BTU of each. Sometimes utilities will give an off peak rate for electric, but they will controll your electric boiler and shut it off when the electrical demand on the grid is high. It makes it a good deal for electric floor heat.

Thank you for this. Excellent, informative post. Sometime in the coming week I will get those numbers and post them.

 

[bams50]

Lp 91,500 btu's per gallon
Electric is 3.41 btu per watt
Lp condensing boiler about 95% efficient 86,925 per gallon
Electric is 100% efficient
Have to figure all in price per btu. Taxs and if there's a delivery charge.
1/2" pex 32 btu per foot
Loops can't be longer than 300'
Boiler piping primary / secondary loops with micro bubbler for a air removal device
Only use boiler glycol
30 lbs of air pressure on loops during the pore till setup

Excellent information here, much appreciated!

 

[bams50]

Wow, thanks to everyone for their well thought and informed comments! I’m going to get the cost for electric and propane and post them. There’s no major rush, we are pouring the floor in two weeks, but the tubing is the same no matter what the boiler is, so there’s no rush choosing. Thanks again, for everyone’s input!

 

[ericm]

Heat pumps are more than 100% efficient. It depends on the relative temperature but mini splits are roughly 300-400% efficient. I don't know about air to water heat pumps like you'd use to heat water for in floor heating. Mini splits can work to well below freezing these days. More like zero degrees F or lower, but it depends on the unit.

Here's a speadsheet. Put in your local prices. https://www.maine.gov/energy/sites/maine.gov.energy/files/inline-files/Home-Heating-Calculator.xls

Going electric means you can use solar. For some money up front you get free power for many decades.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I really do not care for propane, for the reasons you and others mentioned.

Shop for a heat pump that makes hot water.

It will cost more, but it will pay back !

 

[theoldwizard1]

Heat pumps are more than 100% efficient. It depends on the relative temperature but mini splits are roughly 300-400% efficient.

The proper term is "coefficient of performance" Google AI has a reasonable explanation. Wikipedia goes deeper Coefficient of Performance.

I don't know about air to water heat pumps like you'd use to heat water for in floor heating. Mini splits can work to well below freezing these days. More like zero degrees F or lower, but it depends on the unit.

Still a new "concept" in the US. Common in the "rest of the world". Bonus ! Because it is a heat pump, it can also run "air handlers" for cooling !

Going electric means you can use solar. For some money up front you get free power for many decades.

True, but it takes A LOT OF SOLAR to run an electric resistance boiler/hot water heater. Remember, typical residential heat pump water heaters are "stealing" energy from already warm house !

 

[PoorUB]

Heat pumps are more than 100% efficient. It depends on the relative temperature but mini splits are roughly 300-400% efficient. I don't know about air to water heat pumps like you'd use to heat water for in floor heating. Mini splits can work to well below freezing these days. More like zero degrees F or lower, but it depends on the unit.

Here's a speadsheet. Put in your local prices. https://www.maine.gov/energy/sites/maine.gov.energy/files/inline-files/Home-Heating-Calculator.xls

Going electric means you can use solar. For some money up front you get free power for many decades.

The OP has natural gas. It might be cheaper to operate than a heat pump.

Wrong thread!

 

[mike93lx]

The OP has natural gas

I'm not seeing that mentioned

 

[nadogail]

The most honest answer I can offer is “It Depends on the cost and availability of the energy you choose to use.

I am using Solar Energy to generate electricity there is not yet a charge for Sunshine

 

[Dagny]

Propane with a conventional cast iron boiler. But they are hard to find. If you have to get a hang on the wall boiler get Navien or Viseman.

 

[Torque&Recoil]

The most honest answer I can offer is “It Depends on the cost and availability of the energy you choose to use.

I am using Solar Energy to generate electricity there is not yet a charge for Sunshine

Your first sentence is the key. However, you diverge after that. You live in CA. The OP is in NY state. There is NW in H that solar is going to heat his workshop for free in the winter. It isn't even going to run his house. Just... negative $ buying from the power company all winter long.

 

[PoorUB]

I'm not seeing that mentioned

****! thinking of another thread!

 

[ericm]

Your first sentence is the key. However, you diverge after that. You live in CA. The OP is in NY state. There is NW in H that solar is going to heat his workshop for free in the winter. It isn't even going to run his house. Just... negative $ buying from the power company all winter long.

Upstate NY is about the same lattitude as southern Oregon, where solar does well. NY state has net metering. You can bank credits in the summer and use them in the winter. That's ideal for home solar. The average power rate in NY is about $0.22 per kwh. With power that expensive, solar would pay for itself within a relatively few years, leaving free power for the rest of the life of the system.

 

[u2slow]

Propane is not the way to go here. Monopoly-style pricing because there is no natural gas available.

 

[Firebrick43]

That matches up with my expectations. If the OP is locked into radiant it would be cheaper to heat with high efficiency propane vs a standard electric boiler by about 1/3.

However according to DOE those heat pump water heaters can have a COP of 3 to 7. Again...I've never speced one. I've never used one. But if I was in the OP's situation with a preference to use power and need to heat a lot of water for heat loops...that's where I'd be looking.

Might start here: https://www.blueridgecompany.com/product/air-to-water-heat-pumps/435

Have you thought about what you are recommending? In no way am I against HP water heater as I have one in my house but where do you expect to get the heat from for it to work in the winter in upstate NY. None of the units you listed has enough capacity at their minimum 5 degree temps and have a cost of over 8000 dollars for just the hp, let alone install

 

[Firebrick43]

Upstate NY is about the same lattitude as southern Oregon, where solar does well. NY state has net metering. You can bank credits in the summer and use them in the winter. That's ideal for home solar. The average power rate in NY is about $0.22 per kwh. With power that expensive, solar would pay for itself within a relatively few years, leaving free power for the rest of the life of the system.

Upstate NY is 10 - 15 degrees colder on average in deep winter, and much more snowfall on average except a few small places in the mountains like crater lake.

Most places in upstate NY see 100 plus inches of snow a year, a 1/4 of it sees over 150" on average. A lot different than the few inches you said was a record for your area in this past winter.

Much higher heating load and lower solar output makes it very different even if the latitude is the same.

 

[ericm]

Propane is not the way to go here. Monopoly-style pricing because there is no natural gas available.

Propane is usually expensive but it really depends on the local area. In our part of CA a bunch of residents got together and formed an association to negotiate with the propane companies. My propane hasn't been all that much more expensive than the national average, unlike nearly everything else. Especially electricity. Even with super expensive electricity and reasonable propane, heating with mini splits costs a bit less.

Propane prices are more volatile than natural gas or electricity. Unlike propane those are monopolies, but they're regulated, which is why the prices stay consistent. It can be hard to get propane fills when it's cold and they're busy. Especially if you're not renting a tank. Then your request goes on the bottom of the list.

I'm looking forward to not having to deal with propane at the new place.

 

[u2slow]

Propane is usually expensive but it really depends on the local area. In our part of CA a bunch of residents got together and formed an association to negotiate with the propane companies.

Being on an island, we have one company that is successful at keeping anyone else out.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

It can be hard to get propane fills when it's cold and they're busy. Especially if you're not renting a tank. Then your request goes on the bottom of the list.

I'm looking forward to not having to deal with propane at the new place.

I think this is a point a lot of people don't think enough about. How is it going to feel when the 15-degree weather is stretching into the 10 day forecast, there's 8 inches of snow on the ground and 6 more coming, and you're under 20% on your tank?

I've run a lot of natural gas mains into rural areas in the last 10 years for farmers with poultry houses, and they seem to be much less excited about saving $ with NG vs Propane, than they are happy about having "one less thing to worry about". That one less thing is worrying about how much fuel is left in each of the propane tanks feeding each of their buildings. Many of these are in bad spots that are hard to reach with a propane transport truck after a light rain, much less if there's snow on the ground.

 

[pcmeiners]

Fuel prices as of 12/31/24 are the national average prices, "per million BTU (dollars)" column is the critical info.............spreadsheet provided by the state of Maine.




This calculator from the state of Maine is pretty good, If you use it you need to plug in your heating costs and you need to go into each fuel and modify the parameters ( in "show details") used as to your heating efficiency, last updated 6/25...........

Residential Heating System Cost Calculator | Efficiency Maine

Our heating cost comparison calculator can help you estimate your annual home heating costs for different heating systems.

www.efficiencymaine.com

 

[Dagny]

I'm in the business. The losses in electric heating are all before it gets to your meter. You still have to pay for them. Heat pumps are good until it gets very cold out and use a lot of moving parts to make heat. Way to many heat pumps are installed by people with no understanding of refrigeration principles. For a system to last a long time it needs to be clean clean clean nothing but refrigerant and oil.

We just filled all our propane tanks 1.28 a gal. We have 4 500 gal tanks enough for 2 years. Also have 30 cord of hard maple wood.

Here in Wi. electric cost about twice as much as propane with all things considered. Nat. gas is only available in larger towns.

 

[gmcgeo]

I'm in the business. The losses in electric heating are all before it gets to your meter. You still have to pay for them. Heat pumps are good until it gets very cold out and use a lot of moving parts to make heat. Way to many heat pumps are installed by people with no understanding of refrigeration principles. For a system to last a long time it needs to be clean clean clean nothing but refrigerant and oil.

We just filled all our propane tanks 1.28 a gal. We have 4 500 gal tanks enough for 2 years. Also have 30 cord of hard maple wood.

That is almost unbelievable considering its about $1 a gallon for the supplier to purchase. I recently got 3 loads in at .97 per gallon plus Delivery. Someone on the inside must be helping you out. The OP is not going to get that price.

 

[dcg9381]

Propane is not the way to go here. Monopoly-style pricing because there is no natural gas available.

Those "monopolies" are common in the states too. To get out of them, you own the tanks. That doesn't mean they won't collude on pricing. And pricing can change with the market.

It's regional too. Propane is about about $1.85 in MI right now, but I pay $3.00 in TX. Gasoline prices are reversed. Dunno.

Part of it comes down to what you're more comfortable with if you're eventually going to work on it. I'm pretty good with electrical. I've done a "little" propane, but I don't feel real comfortable with it.