Gotta fix my (leaning/derelict) garage!!!

[fergus]

JC23, thanks man. You were not alone. Heck, for a while I wondered what I'd got myself into.I was in way over my head Like I said before, I'm not a construction guy...I'm much more of a gearhead. I haven't given up on any home improvements in the past, though those were much smaller and easier - you know basic plumbing, electrical, new sink, new toilet, painting etc. All the info I got here made this possible....bottom line.

But anyway, I've had a lot of fun doing this. I kinda surprised myself with how much I'd learned... and there was no other way to learn it than to just go do it.

Oh and my total costs so far are $355. Pretty cheap eh??? This also includes another come-a-long and some logging chain. I'm guessing another $100 or so by the time I get some pressure treated wood for the sills, more screws, more lumber (if needed), etc.

 

[fergus]

Oh and Mofo,

The roof is definitely a project for another day. The roof is still water-tight so its not a priority. After I get done with the structural stuff I'm gonna put a door on the front.

Anybody got any good ideas for a door? I'm halfway considering building one...but just not the rolling bypass type doors that were on there originally... I think they'll **** for lack of light, lack of airflow, only 8 ft opening at a time, etc.

 

[JC23]

I built my two 9X9 doors. I wanted to have carriage house doors to match my old house and the look of the garage. First I thought I'd just get some bone stock doors, add some trim and recalibrate the spring rates. I called around and no door company would help. Finally I found a door company who would. Long story short, they told me how to build the doors such as what heights each piece should be as they vary for openings. Then they said give us the total weight of each door and we'll give you the right springs. I did and they did.

The doors I made may be too much for what you're doing as I made the frames outta
2X4s and heavily insulated each piece. I did get to add my trim as well as fake hinges and latches to get that carriage house look. I had less than $1K in the two doors and all the hardware and that included the springs on the header, tracks, hinges and such.

If you're looking to go that way, PM me and I'll write up the whole deal for ya.

We gots to keeps ya movin', Fergus!

 

[Amitygravel]

Nice progress for not much money ! The good thing is all the lumber you're using for the temporary wall will still be usable. Its great that you have had little expense and made such a difference!

 

[srmofo]

Oh and Mofo,

The roof is definitely a project for another day. The roof is still water-tight so its not a priority. After I get done with the structural stuff I'm gonna put a door on the front.

Anybody got any good ideas for a door? I'm halfway considering building one...but just not the rolling bypass type doors that were on there originally... I think they'll **** for lack of light, lack of airflow, only 8 ft opening at a time, etc.

I though I remembered you saying the roof leaked in many spots earlier in the thread...maybe that was someone elses shanty....I know mine did before I tore it down to make room for a larger structure. ALthough mine leaked from the plexiglass skylight I installed.

By the time you finish with yours you wont be able to call it a shanty anymore

 

[fergus]

Nice progress for not much money ! The good thing is all the lumber you're using for the temporary wall will still be usable. Its great that you have had little expense and made such a difference!

Oh yeah... you know this...temporary wall = WORKBENCHES BABY!!!!

 

[fergus]

Made some more progress this morning. Got the 2x10 installed up top:

The little tricks save you the most trouble. I leaned one of those 2x4s against the wall, propped the 2x10 on it, then picked up the other end of the 2x10 and stuck another stud under to hold it up while I screwed it in. I have totally done really dumb things like try to hold it up and run a screw in. Unless your bad like Chuck Norris, it just wont turn out real good...

And got the 2x10 in down below. You can see how far below grade the garage now sits...

Then got out the drill and put some eye bolts in

Oh yeah...I noticed in earlier pictures the support wall wasn't quite finished. I added another 2x4 on the bottom for strength and to support whilst (possibly) jacking it up with a floor jack

 

[fergus]

So I've got some bad news. I just pulled it a little with the comealongs and the whole thing came down.










































Kidding, just kidding.







Got everything hooked up.

Then I gave it one full crank to take the slack out. Then I heard a creak. So I stopped. Then I looked at the side:

You see that gap between the wall and the old sistered 2x10s up front? Thats how much it moved already.

I barely put any force on the come along at all...I thought all I did was take the slack out. It moved so easily...about an inch. Awesome. Kinda scary that it moved that easy actually. I expected much more of a fight and much more popping and creaking. But just one little creak. The back wall is almost plumb again.

I ran into a guy from town down at the hardware store this morning. Hes a carpenter and a pretty talented guy. I told him what I was up to. He suggested just putting some long 2x4s up against the side, leaning on em to bow em towards the ground a little and putting a stake in the ground to put some pressure on the side to help it along. I did that and it moved another half inch. He told me the longer 2x4s the better - more bow. He also told me that he's seen buildings moved using just this method. Pretty cool. Check it out

Now I'm just wondering how long I should wait to crank on it again. A couple hours? A couple days?

 

[istephen]

Right on! Great work.
I like seeing all the support on the downhill wall there.

Crank it again!
Pretty cool the "loaded" 2x4's moved it too. Talk about a little at a time. Nice. You can slip a shim in between each loaded 2x4 and the ground stake when they get loose again.

With the back wall square, Once it is square, can you put up some plywood up in the corners screwed into the studs to keep that end from racking now and in the future? I'd feel safer with at least one end keeping the place from falling over.

I bet by o-beer-thirty tonight you could have it straight up and down, but with the front of the walls still splayed out and off the foundation/sills.

Go Fergus!

 

[fergus]

Just cranked it again. Much tighter this time...much less movement. Another little creak. Once the back is pulled into square, I'll have to fix some of the studs...the back wall has a bow in it (bowed toward the oustide) where a little of the sill/studs have rotted. After that, I'll sheet the wall. Then, I'll fix the rest.

 

[LEVE]

Looking good. Seems you're doing OK with going slow, a little logic, pickin' people's brains and than applying what you've learned. I'm looking forward to the next installment.

 

[fergus]

Snugged it up four or five times over this evening. At first it didnt' seem to move much more. Stuck the jack under the support wall and lifted it. I could see the old studs move in as I raised the wall up. Set it down again and there was slack on the chain, so I tightened up again. Then jacked again, this time I shimmed it. I think its about 5/16 higher already. This is what it looked like at quittin time

and the back wall...

You 'bout called it Stephen...

As luck would have it, the forecast changed for possible rain tomorrow. Great. Just spent an hour re-stacking and tarping everything out on the driveway.

 

[PassnThru]

Pretty cool. One third of me feels sorry for you to have to deal with that - the other two thirds is in party mode - a challenge without a lot to lose. It is truly an adventure that is yours alone. And it is clear so far that you are not only up to the challenge but finding great pleasure in the pursuit. Slay that beast - for yourself and all that come after you. (no pressure - really )

 

[fergus]

Pretty cool. One third of me feels sorry for you to have to deal with that - the other two thirds is in party mode - a challenge without a lot to lose. It is truly an adventure that is yours alone. And it is clear so far that you are not only up to the challenge but finding great pleasure in the pursuit. Slay that beast - for yourself and all that come after you. (no pressure - really )

Yeah man...that's a great sentiment...and compliment. There's no need to feel sorry for me. I've needed some kind of challenge for a while. Something to look forward to at home. This project has opened my eyes to lots of possibilities. And it is my adventure alone. (Well , me and the people who are reading this thread) I've had exactly five minutes worth of help over here in non-cyber land...I wanted to do all the work myself. I've learned a lot...and learned to stop fearing the unknown when it comes to home improvement. I've already got several ideas for the garage after the basic structural improvements are complete. And several ideas for other projects as well. But those are another story for another time.

And you're right. There wasn't a whole lot to lose. What's the worst that could happen? It falls down? It was gonna happen anyway.

 

[Cage]

Fergus, bust out a flash light and check everything ! I`m going through a similar project and heard all sorts of popping, creaking and snapping. I found my rafters pulling away from the ridge board ! And most people I questioned about it said over and over again GO SLOW, the garage didn`t get that way over night and it will not go back over night. Good luck man.

I`ve been cranking my come-a-longs for about a month now.

 

[JC23]

GO, MAN GO!!! Keep it smart and safe, Fergus!

 

[mdbeck1]

...I found my rafters pulling away from the ridge board ! ...

Toward the beginning of this thread Fergus referred to a web site of someone else that had done this. One of the things that would help you is to put some tie straps from the studs and top rail to the rafters. Then you should be able to move a little faster.

Other things that will help:
- Once one wall is close to square (measure diagonally across the wall. When the measurements are the same it's square. Put up some kind of bracer material. That can be plywood, metal straps, 2X4, just about anything that will hold the location. Once it is back in place you should actually be able to move the chains and come-along further toward the entrance.
- Measure the width of the base on the back wall and start pulling the front wall to the same width. It should be close to the same (check this against the width of the rafters above the doors). Put a board across the FRONT opening to help keep that distance right.
- Eventually you will need to check the longer distances and make sure that they are correct as well. Again measure diagonally on the walls to get them square. Later the fastest way to ensure that everything is right is to go from the opposite corners and check NW top of wall to SE bottom of wall, NW bottom of wall to SE top of wall, NE top of wall to SW bottom of wall, NE bottom of wall to SW top of wall. Once those are right the building is square. Not many NEW buildings are square when checked that way...

If I am confusing you let me know and I'll attempt to explain it in a more clear manner.

 

[fergus]

Fergus, bust out a flash light and check everything ! I`m going through a similar project and heard all sorts of popping, creaking and snapping. I found my rafters pulling away from the ridge board ! And most people I questioned about it said over and over again GO SLOW, the garage didn`t get that way over night and it will not go back over night. Good luck man.

I`ve been cranking my come-a-longs for about a month now.

Yeah, I just checked it out. Its all still tight. I put collar ties on all the rafters for fear of something similar happening back when I started this project.

I'll probably leave it alone tomorrow at least. The chains were still taut just now, so that means we've reached a point of resistance.

I noticed on the front 2/3 of the RIGHT wall...well, the studs/sill are so far gone that the studs all wiggle a bit. So they aren't supporting anything at this point. It seems that the 3rd and 4th studs from the back are still pretty solid, and the way the sill is twisted (and the outward angle of the studs) , they are probably "fighting" the come-a-long up front. So I'll have to try jacking up the rear part of the support wall to see if that helps. Anyway, thanks for reading.

 

[banzaitoyota]

Its nice to see a project like this.

 

[Rockaholic555]

Ive been following this thread the whole time. I actually got up this morning looking forward to what you'd have done Fergus. Good luck, can't wait to see it finished.

 

[srmofo]

I noticed on the front 2/3 of the left wall...well, the studs/sill are so far gone that the studs all wiggle a bit. So they aren't supporting anything at this point. It seems that the 3rd and 4th studs from the back are still pretty solid,

what If you add some horizontal 2x4s across all the studs? Just a couple diagonals should add alot of strength to a wiggly wall. Just temporary until its up right and you add some sheeting

 

[fergus]

what If you add some horizontal 2x4s across all the studs? Just a couple diagonals should add alot of strength to a wiggly wall. Just temporary until its up right and you add some sheeting

Sorry, I meant the right wall. *Fixed* I'm not worried about it since I've got the temporary support wall over there. I woke up early and was thinking about it...I might just go ahead and cut the old crappy sill in two and pull the front part out. That is, if it will come out "unassisted". I'd rather not have to use a BFH and other assorted tools of persuasion. Not at this point, anyway.

I just wandered out there...chains are still taut. I'll leave her be. Gonna take the day off I believe.

 

[fergus]

So I couldn't help it. I just had to go out there. Patience is not one of my strong suits...but I'm better than I used to be.

Jacked up the rear of the support wall just about 1/8" and shimmed it. I coulda sworn I saw the sill move.

I don't know if you can tell from the pic, but the sill is actually walking its way back up onto the slab. I guess from the pushing/pulling and occasional lifting, the sill is going along with the wall. I'm guessing that I'm not gonna have to do anything other than what I'm already doing to get the structure back to square.

 

[Keep]

This is a great thread, we will have a similar project coming up in the spring. One of the garages at my work is an old single car garage, in pretty much the same shape. Cannot tear it down and rebuild as we would have to move it off the property line and all that fun stuff. So come spring time I will be doing the same thing. Good luck with the rest of this!

 

[fergus]

Ive been following this thread the whole time. I actually got up this morning looking forward to what you'd have done Fergus. Good luck, can't wait to see it finished.

Hey man, thanks for following along. I'm looking forward to working on it most mornings myself. Now is the hardest (slowest) part for me, waiting for tension and leverage to slowly do its work. I can't wait for this project to be finished either...but hopefully getting this thang back upright is just the beginning.

 

[fergus]

So here's a pic from this morning:

The wall is pretty much upright again. It doesn't seem to be climbing the sill too much anymore...I guess I'm gonna start jacking the wall up right at the edge of the rafters like falcon67 did in his thread.

Not a whole lot going on right now... while I'm waiting for things to shape up I'm gonna build a semi-proper workbench for my radial arm saw out of this:

Picked up some used solid core doors from the Habitat Re-store yesterday...3x7 1-3/4" thick...those things are heavy. Gonna use 'em as bench tops.

Anyway, not since there's not much else to report, I'll tell you guys a couple things that I learned thus far. While its not exactly rocket science, they are a couple things that I had to figure out since I'm not much of a builder...yet.

1). Clamps are your friend. Lumber is crooked, you need help to get it to go where you want it. Especially when you have one piece of new crooked lumber going up against an old piece of crooked lumber. Can not have too many clamps...I used them all over this project.

2). Cheap hardware can/will give you headaces. I started out using deck screws on this project. Actually, I started out using cabinet screws...and I couldn't figure out why they didn't want to drive into 2x4s. I didn't know they were cabinet screws, or that there was much of a difference until I looked at the box and went down to the hardware store. Cabinet screws have a different pitch, and the point is nowhere near as sharp as deck screws.

So I started using deck screws. I bought some bulk phillips head 3" scews from the local hardware store. Trying to drive those things through a couple 2x4s turned out to be really difficult. I had to put every inch of strength (and weight) into making sure those things would snug up...and not strip on the way in. ( I ain't exactly little, or weak). I probably stripped 50 of em the first day. After busting my *** for a while, I decided I'd see what else was available. A trip to Lowe's revealed there are many different kinds of deck screws now available - I had no idea. Different coatings, different drive patters, some made for different materials, etc. Anyway, those coated screws are pretty expensive (about $8/lb) but I thought I'd give it a try. Man, I am glad I did...I think I had to work about 1/3 as hard after that. This is what I got

They actually have a torx t-25 head on them. I think I stripped maybe two the whole rest of the project. The coating makes them bite and "drill" into the wood super easy. I never snapped one head...and have virtually no splitting, even in the old stuff I was attaching to. The other, and maybe biggest benefit was that due to the positive engagement of the torx bit on the screws (and them not wobbling around while trying to "start" the screw), I was actually able to drive screws left-handed. I'm right handed, and nowhere near being ambidextrous, but by the end of the project, I was able to drive with my left hand just as good as with my right. It might not seem like that big of a deal until you consider this: I only had to move the ladder half as much since I could stretch out on the left side of the ladder to run some screws in as well.

Anyway, thanks for reading.

 

[MScott]

Is that an MBF Dewalt?

 

[srmofo]

Im using those same screws for my privacy fence. The only thing Ive had found are a few of them have crud and coating chunks in the torx hole. The bit wont engage right. I bought them for the torx drive alone because I hate how a phillips#2 cams out when the going gets tough.

 

[Falcon67]

Hate to tell you after you paid $8/lb for the good screws, but a little cup of dishwashing soap or a handy bar of Ivory makes the regular deck screws go in a hell of a lot easier. Just dip the screw a bit, or press the side of the threads into the soap bar. However, the Torx head is 10X better to drive than a Phillips so still money well spent IMHO.

Still -aged wood is hard as rock. If I needed a screw near an edge in an old timber, I predrilled.

You are doing a bang up job with that - more work than I had to do for sure!

 

[LEVE]

I always use those bulk Phillips head screws. When I drive them in it can be hard if the wood's tight grained and old. When that happens I'll drill pilot holes through one piece of lumber.

One thing I always do is keep a bar of soap around. Then I drag the screw across the soap. The soap is scraped onto the threads. That helps the screws drive into the wood a whole lot easier.

I've heard that you can also use 3InOne oil to coat the screws and do the same thing, but I've never used that method.

I have used NAPA hand cleaner and it works good.

I just dip the screws in the liquid hand cleaner and the screws drive in slicker'n snot.

 

[fergus]

Is that an MBF Dewalt?

Yup. Did my research...found out its the one to get...at least as far as old homeowner saws.

Hate to tell you after you paid $8/lb for the good screws, but a little cup of dishwashing soap or a handy bar of Ivory makes the regular deck screws go in a hell of a lot easier. Just dip the screw a bit, or press the side of the threads into the soap bar. However, the Torx head is 10X better to drive than a Phillips so still money well spent IMHO.

Still -aged wood is hard as rock. If I needed a screw near an edge in an old timber, I predrilled.

You are doing a bang up job with that - more work than I had to do for sure!

Well, I learned something else. I will have to try the soap trick next time that I have to use phillips screws. Thanks again Chris.

 

[z28toz06]

At least it doesn't lean to the left!
The cheap gene doesn't seem to apply to kegs of beer!
I would jack the roof up and place a new building under it!

The plan is to be here for another 3-5 years. So, if I get that much service out of it, I'll be happy.
If you will need to sell it at that time, it will reflect in the asking/actual price.
The roof is still water tight, amazingly. There is probably 3 layers of shingles on there. Its not a consideration.

There's a good chance that the roof will leak when you do move it.

 

[MScott]

Yup. Did my research...found out its the one to get...at least as far as old homeowner saws.Chris.

I have one just like it, but the motor needs rebuilding. Not sure I want to spend $500 to do that. Wish I knew someone in the area who could use it, I would gladly give it to them....too heavy to ship.

 

[fergus]

I have one just like it, but the motor needs rebuilding. Not sure I want to spend $500 to do that. Wish I knew someone in the area who could use it, I would gladly give it to them....too heavy to ship.

Really? I thought parts were readily available...even motor parts. Just put it in the free section of craigslist...or maybe even in the tools section. I bought mine for $50...most of em sale for more.

 

[fergus]

At least it doesn't lean to the left!
The cheap gene doesn't seem to apply to kegs of beer!

Funny. You're the first to comment. That's my homebrew setup...kegs with the tops cut out for brew pots. Been making beer for a few years. Its on hiatus until this project is much more under control.

I would jack the roof up and place a new building under it!

That's pretty much what's happening. The siding is staying on, but a lot of new wood is going in behind it.

The plan is to be here for another 3-5 years. So, if I get that much service out of it, I'll be happy.
If you will need to sell it at that time, it will reflect in the asking/actual price.
The roof is still water tight, amazingly. There is probably 3 layers of shingles on there. Its not a consideration.

There's a good chance that the roof will leak when you do move it.

You might be right. We've already had one rain though...and no leaks...yet.

 

[MScott]

Really? I thought parts were readily available...even motor parts. Just put it in the free section of craigslist...or maybe even in the tools section. I bought mine for $50...most of em sale for more.

Craigslist is useless in this area. I found that there is a company in Ohio, Wolfe Engineering that rebuilds these but was quoted a price of $457 plus shipping to rebuild the motor. The chap there said that it should be worth about $1000 in the shape it is in and almost $2000 when rebuilt. (Sounds like you got a bargain if his prices are right.) I just don't think I would get enough use out of it to justify spending that amount. Hate to just scrap it if there was a dedicated woodworker who could use it.

 

[srmofo]

Craigslist is useless in this area. I found that there is a company in Ohio, Wolfe Engineering that rebuilds these but was quoted a price of $457 plus shipping to rebuild the motor. The chap there said that it should be worth about $1000 in the shape it is in and almost $2000 when rebuilt. (Sounds like you got a bargain if his prices are right.) I just don't think I would get enough use out of it to justify spending that amount. Hate to just scrap it if there was a dedicated woodworker who could use it.

surely you must be able to find another motor to mount on it?

 

[MScott]

surely you must be able to find another motor to mount on it?

Sorry for the thread hyjack, but to answer the question, the motor includes the mounting system and is critical to proper alignment of the saw, so it would not be possible to just replace it with a proprietary motor. As to finding another Dewalt motor, I have no idea where I could find one. They were originally built in the 1950's.

 

[fergus]

Most of these saws I've seen sale for 150-200 here in No. Cal. But it may be different in your area. Radial arm saws are definitely out of fashion...I guess due to the popularity of sliding compound mitre saws. The other thing I found was that the wrong blade was mounted on mine. A good blade is probably $75 and not that easy to find.

 

[Hank McMauser]

I love this thread,I've been checking up on it every few days you are doing a great job

Just so you know, most screws arent very strong in shear applications. After it's all up I'd get a hold of a friend who has a framing nailer and put nails into those boards next to the screws you have Most screws are too brittle and snap off when put into a shear application(main reason you also don't put screws into joist hangers applications.)
I could get ahold of my primesource rep and get the specs on the screws you are using if you'd like.