tool allowances for techs starting their careers = great idea

[Fedwrench]

Our tool allowance at my job is only $250 a year....

When I left a City Auto Tech job 18 years ago, we got uniforms, safety shoes, and a tool allowance of $600 a year.
The gig I moved to provides everything from the shoes on your feet, to the clothes on your back, to individual and specialty tools in a climate-controlled shop that's bright and fairly clean. I'll miss it when I retire at the end of the year.

Flat rate world has always been feast or famine. I like the idea of a community box to get a new tech started a foot in the door. I also think a mentor is a great way to grow a new tech. Mentoring isn't for everyone and there might be slim pickings at some shops for available candidates to share their wisdom and experience. Many shops eat their young by having a sink or swim mentality and have an extremely high turnover rate. Here in the valley of the sun we have more than a few tor profit schools churning out fresh technician meat on a regular basis. We also have some excellent community colleges that alternate dealership time with classroom time. I think the community colleges turn out the best techs. Many dealerships/shops/fleets whine about a technician shortage. If places spent a little time and coin to develop their new hires so, they would be more successful, and the industry would be better off. end of rant

 

[LopezBart]

AK has to be near the bottom of that list too.

I've met more than a few recently graduated kids that could barely handle 3rd grade level reading, writing and math.
No idea how they managed to be pushed through school and graduate vs being held back.
"Homeschooling" is fairly common and is generally a HUGE disservice to the kids.

Great they made it through school, but now what?

But think of all the dangerous ideas to which the home schooled kids are never exposed... The round Earth, oxygen vs phlogiston, etc.

 

[Cruzan80]

I chuckle a bit when teachers complain about having to buy supplies from their paycheck to teach. (Not that I don't think teaching is an important job... I definitely wouldn't have the patience dealing with kids)

I've met more than a few recently graduated kids that could barely handle 3rd grade level reading, writing and math.
No idea how they managed to be pushed through school and graduate vs being held back.

Not sure if the irony didn't come thru on my end, but there is a clear correlation between your two quotes. And having helped work with kids that were not sure where the next meal was coming from, much less school supplies, I don't really find it a laughing matter.

Me buying equipment to give away to students isn't the same as a tech buying his own tools to keep using and take with him to a new job.

 

[neharr41]

I’m an A&P mechanic and we get 50% of what we spend on the tool trucks back, up to $2,000 a year. Currently we only have a Snap-on truck that stops by, so it’s basically 50% off Snap-on only.

I can honestly say that if we didn’t have the reimbursement program I wouldn’t buy a single thing off the Snap-on truck. But 50% off makes some things worth it.

 

[u2slow]

I've never understood why it's acceptable/standard practice for mechanic and some trades jobs to require the workers provide their own tools.

Me neither.

IMHO, the more personal tools required for a job, the more it shows that segment of the industry is cheaping out and offloading costs.

Industrial employers/jobs tend to provide most (if not all) tools. I encourage anyone that wants to pull a wrench for a living to look past automotive. I did 4 yrs and moved on.

 

[Sumboodie]

But think of all the dangerous ideas to which the home schooled kids are never exposed... The round Earth, oxygen vs phlogiston, etc.

My brother's kids go to a private, church background, school due to what the regular public schools have recently been pushing.

Not going to get into the details but it didn't align with their beliefs and the private school kind of ties into church. Plus it's not crazy money. They don't have meals, no busses, the kids have to clean so fairly minimal janitorial work.

 

[Sumboodie]

I’m an A&P mechanic and we get 50% of what we spend on the tool trucks back, up to $2,000 a year. Currently we only have a Snap-on truck that stops by, so it’s basically 50% off Snap-on only.

I can honestly say that if we didn’t have the reimbursement program I wouldn’t buy a single thing off the Snap-on truck. But 50% off makes some things worth it.

When I was in the tool room we had the Snap On Industrial/military catalogs. Prices were roughly 40-60% off regular prices.
Even still it wasn't that cheap. I bought a few things for myself (with my money of course), maybe $250 of stuff in the ~3 years I was in the tool room.

They don't make very many tools, especially these days, that it's either theirs, or the rest pretty well ****.

I'd say their heyday was before the internet really spread and online info and ordering became much easier than trying to chase down a Snap On truck.

They do ok with shops and floating credit to techs, but for guys like me, just working in junk cause they don't trust ir want to afford shops, I'd rather not spend that kind of money in most cases.

 

[Cruzan80]

My brother's kids go to a private, church background, school

While that is certainly your (brother's) right to choose a school that matches their beliefs about education I view it as analogous to saying you send packages via FedEx vs USPS. Fedex doesn't have to deliver everywhere (last mile cost issues), and private schools can choose which students to accept, and put conditions on attendance that public schools cannot (such as tuition costs, etc).


PS. I tried to only quote the immediate relevant part as to avoid any political angle, as it appeared you were trying to do the same. I know USPS is it's own political grab-bag...

 

[Wrench97]

I got $650 a year tool allowance, doesn't go far when buying tools when you consider a Tech angle torque wrench is $750 and has a 2 year warranty......

 

[dr_clyde]

I prefer buying my own tools. The shop I manage right now technically supplies everything we need to do our jobs, but it can be a bit of a pain to deal with. I'm not in charge of purchasing or the tool policy so I have to make do.

Sharing tools only works if everyone puts them away, treats them properly, doesn't need to use them at the same time as others, etc. For the most part, people are generally good at this but occasionally you see evidence of the "not mine, I don't care" issue.

Buying my own stuff allows me to choose the brand, level of quality, and any other personal preferences like grip style or ergonomic choices. It also ensures the tools are where I want them, when I want them and in the condition I expect.

The shop would provide me with a combination square, but I would have to really beg to get them to spring for a Starrett, so I just brought mine in from home. Now I don't have to deal with the ****** Empire square that would be provided. I am the only one here who has their own box. The maintenance guy has his own tools, but he only brings them in when needed, he generally uses the shop set for every day stuff.

When I had employees, I required a basic hand tool list and a roller cabinet. I would replace any tools worn out or broken on the company dime, and I gave the guys a few hundred bucks a year toward tools, or if they wanted I would just order them stuff on the company account. I also did payroll deduct for bigger purchases if they wanted. I supplied power tools, expensive measuring tools (bore gages, etc), and obviously shop equipment like welders and machine tools.

 

[Banjorear]

While that is certainly your (brother's) right to choose a school that matches their beliefs about education I view it as analogous to saying you send packages via FedEx vs USPS. Fedex doesn't have to deliver everywhere (last mile cost issues), and private schools can choose which students to accept, and put conditions on attendance that public schools cannot (such as tuition costs, etc).


PS. I tried to only quote the immediate relevant part as to avoid any political angle, as it appeared you were trying to do the same. I know USPS is it's own political grab-bag...

I agree. I've been in education for 26 years. Yes, some of the ideals have changed, but so has the world.

Someone above said how some companies don't properly support newbies and lose sight of the cost of turn over, etc. I can't agree with this more.

 

[finn]

When I left a City Auto Tech job 18 years ago, we got uniforms, safety shoes, and a tool allowance of $600 a year.
The gig I moved to provides everything from the shoes on your feet, to the clothes on your back, to individual and specialty tools in a climate-controlled shop that's bright and fairly clean. I'll miss it when I retire at the end of the year.

Flat rate world has always been feast or famine. I like the idea of a community box to get a new tech started a foot in the door. I also think a mentor is a great way to grow a new tech. Mentoring isn't for everyone and there might be slim pickings at some shops for available candidates to share their wisdom and experience. Many shops eat their young by having a sink or swim mentality and have an extremely high turnover rate. Here in the valley of the sun we have more than a few tor profit schools churning out fresh technician meat on a regular basis. We also have some excellent community colleges that alternate dealership time with classroom time. I think the community colleges turn out the best techs. Many dealerships/shops/fleets whine about a technician shortage. If places spent a little time and coin to develop their new hires so, they would be more successful, and the industry would be better off. end of rant

Several years ago there was a thread here where several techs were bitching about having to “train” new hires. I personally was astounded when I read those posts. The complaint seemed to be something on the order of the fact they were on a flat rate system, and training new hires slowed them down, thus costing them money.

The other complaint was that the new hires always got the less complicated “gravy jobs” that were easy to beat the flat rate on.

In my own career, I ran into individuals on several occasions, who seemed to be reluctant to help new employees for some absurd reasoning, not realizing that if the project fails, nobody has a job or reason to be there. Strange, but I have encountered it. When time for a staff reduction comes, guess who’s the first to go?

 

[Skellyii]

I guess the mentoring thing varies widely in the automotive industry these days? My experience was back in the 70s, when I was working my way through school. I usually was assigned to someone that was supposed to be keeping an eye on me until they felt comfortable to let we work completely on my own. This was probably extremely important when I was working at a truck stop with two piece rims that could easily kill you if you were stupid enough inflate them outside the cage.

After graduation, I worked in IT consulting firms. The first one assigned a senior consultant that we would work with/follow around until they felt we were capable of working on our own. We were required to contact our senior if we ran into any problems.

As one senior told me, you were taught in school how it's supposed to work, we teach you how it REALLY works.

The last 35 or so years of my career, I was either the senior or the managing consultant, so I mentored a lot of folks over the years. Usually within a month or so, you can tell which ones are going to make it and which ones won't. This allowed us to either give them more attention to get them up to speed, or just cut them loose before we invested too much time and money in them.

In consulting you typically have a base salary, and are expected to bill for a set number of hours per year. Achieving or exceeding this target would result in a bonus. Mentoring time would sometimes reduce the hours you could bill, so some firms, not all, would either pay you more, or add extra to your bonus to make up for the hours lost.

Not every senior was required to mentor...mentoring is NOT for everybody.

With the realities of flat rate, how about providing a bonus or some extra compensation for the time lost for the mentor? It would be a win-win for the company. Better new hires and happier senior mechanics. Probably less turnover as well.

 

[Bagherra]

$250? My job only gives $200 to go towards tools or boots.

We cant use allowance to buy any type of clothing or PPE....company provides uniform pants & shirts. We have to provide our own steel toe footware. The safety glasses they provide are a damn joke, i buy my own...

 

[dnschmidt]

It all comes down to one thing: Nobody wants to develop talent. They expect it to just show up at their door and be fully trained. How this is possible is a question that's never asked. I started at Westinghouse R&D as a technician and Westinghouse had a we pay to educate our people policy that enabled me to get my engineering degree from Pitt basically free of charge. Once completed they made me an engineer and I paid them back with a couple of patents and Westinghouse invention awards that were actually worth more than the patents as they were considered trade secrets. Nobody develops their people like this anymore. I was lucky enough to be born at the right time.

 

[gmcgeo]

We Provide $200 every 6 months for Tools, clothes, shoes, ect.

 

[haneyrm]

Did I miss why auto mechanics have to provide their own tools? Father was an electrical contractor for the past 30 years and when you started there at the journeymen or mechanic level, you got an entire truck full of tools and the truck to use while working for the company. Apprentices got full use of the tools but were passengers in the trucks. It was a union shop so maybe that had something to do with it. Most guys had their own linemen’s pliers and maybe a few hand tools but that was about it. Huge disparity in personal investment just to have a job.

 

[ecotec]

Did I miss why auto mechanics have to provide their own tools? Father was an electrical contractor for the past 30 years and when you started there at the journeymen or mechanic level, you got an entire truck full of tools and the truck to use while working for the company. Apprentices got full use of the tools but were passengers in the trucks. It was a union shop so maybe that had something to do with it. Most guys had their own linemen’s pliers and maybe a few hand tools but that was about it. Huge disparity in personal investment just to have a job.

In electrical, we have a tool list that amounts to a small hand box. Everything else is supplied by the contractor.

Most people have some tools beyond the tool list… but not much. You don’t want your toolbox to be heavier than you can lift.

 

[CGarage]

It seems to be western human nature to not treat carefully things that are not yours.
Rental cars are an example. Same with tools.

I think a basic tool box with tools should be owned by any prospective employee and brought to work.

Until western society learns Asian levels of respect and accountability, employers are going to be footing the bill for the damage and negligence that is bound to occur.

I think there are some amazing opportunities within human potential that never get to develop because of lack of access and barriers made by tooling costs. I have seen young men in 3rd to 5th world countries who love working with their hands and are excited to be in the trades, but are held back because of lack of access to the needed equipment. This is sad.

 

[gtae07]

Did I miss why auto mechanics have to provide their own tools?

I'm in aviation on the engineering side. It was only after a couple years and after talking to several of the mechanics that I realized my employer was very unusual--they had recently moved to a policy of providing all tools and actually prohibiting personal tools/boxes on site, for liability/FOD control/standardization purposes.

It really surprised me that mechanics in aviation or other fields generally had to supply all their own tools, given the expense and the non-standardization.

Nobody wants to develop talent. They expect it to just show up at their door and be fully trained.

Ain't that the ******* truth. It's not even enough to have talent and skills--a lot of places now want you to walk in the door full of the "insider knowledge" of the company's products and all the specific tools they use, that you could only actually get by working in that group for a while. Knowing CAD isn't enough, they want you to be an expert in a specific software package. It's like trying to hire a mechanic but only being interested in folks who have extensive experience with using Matco tools on Ford diesel engines.

Yes, I've been turned down for several jobs lately because of that lack of tool- or product-specific experience, despite clearly hitting all the other qualifications and having a ton of experience with similar tools and products...

 

[niget2002]

I don't chuckle at that. We're neighbors to a state that ranks 50th in public school education. Teachers don't have the basics of what students need.... Talk about doing it wrong.

My kids' ISD is ranked in the top 20 of the state. My wife works in a Jr High there. She still buys a stack of school supplies each year for kids to 'borrow'. The school is pretty good about picking up most of what she needs to do her job. What she buys from her own account is more to help out the kids that don't show up with everything they need.

 

[dcg9381]

It really surprised me that mechanics in aviation or other fields generally had to supply all their own tools, given the expense and the non-standardization.

So when I was "trained" (transition) as a power plane pilot, my CFI had a 4-5 year degree from Emberly-Riddle. He was 6-figures in debt as having that degree, CFI-II, and A&P. He had a wife and a child. In exchange for my attempts to kill him, he was paid, by his employer $10/hr when the prop was turning. That's not the first flight instructor I had living well below the "poverty" line. Not kidding.

I kid you not. That's normal.

I remember there were some plugs we couldn't "clear" (airplanes have 2 x 4 sets of plugs and you have to check them before take off). His tools were a plug wrench and a pick to clear the plug from lead. There was no "upside" to him being an A&P really.. His career upside was to GTFO and not turn a wrench.

He eventually went on (because I didn't manage to kill him) to do commercial for over-seas airlines and likely now makes a "comfortable living" doing domestic flights.

But he's just one medical away or one flight test away from being "done done". F - that. I flew with many CFI-I / CFI-II that failed a test and can't move forward after 6-figures in debt.

Yes, I've been turned down for several jobs lately because of that lack of tool- or product-specific experience, despite clearly hitting all the other qualifications and having a ton of experience with similar tools and products...

I hope a "market correction" is in your future.

 

[dcg9381]

My kids' ISD is ranked in the top 20 of the state. My wife works in a Jr High there. She still buys a stack of school supplies each year for kids to 'borrow'. The school is pretty good about picking up most of what she needs to do her job. What she buys from her own account is more to help out the kids that don't show up with everything they need.

Post a link and I'll contribute.

But honestly, your geography has less to do with her qualifications as a teacher than does the whole "ecosystem" of our value on education. That's my "not happy" remark.

We should be throwing down mass cash on these kids... Because ain't anyone else going to be around to handle the deficit.

 

[dcg9381]

But honestly, your geography has less to do with her qualifications as a teacher than does the whole "ecosystem" of our value on education. That's my "not happy" remark.

We're on the same page. IM me the link.

Dad was a college professor in a mid-tier state school. He "hated" undergraduates because he said "many are not prepared to write a complete sentence". So he taught grad students.

I dunno, it's not my problem (other than the costs for my kid who is likely 6-figure on a bar that I couldn't hit). but the whole US education system is F'd.

 

[Mandres]

My kids' ISD is ranked in the top 20 of the state. My wife works in a Jr High there. She still buys a stack of school supplies each year for kids to 'borrow'. The school is pretty good about picking up most of what she needs to do her job. What she buys from her own account is more to help out the kids that don't show up with everything they need.

Does her district have a charitable foundation associated with it? I used to volunteer for the local education foundation. We would fundraise and hold events throughout the year. The $ went to teachers specifically to make sure they never had to go out of pocket for any supplies that the kids needed.

 

[niget2002]

Does her district have a charitable foundation associated with it? I used to volunteer for the local education foundation. We would fundraise and hold events throughout the year. The $ went to teachers specifically to make sure they never had to go out of pocket for any supplies that the kids needed.

There's multiple ways for parents around here to get free supplies for their kids. Some parents take advantage of those. Some parents are the 'not my problem' types. It's the 'not my problem' types the wife ends up helping the kids a bit.

Post a link and I'll contribute.

But honestly, your geography has less to do with her qualifications as a teacher than does the whole "ecosystem" of our value on education. That's my "not happy" remark.

We should be throwing down mass cash on these kids... Because ain't anyone else going to be around to handle the deficit.

Thank-you for the offer. We're OK and can afford to take care of what she supplies each year. She's been doing this long enough that she rarely needs something for the classroom itself. When she first started, I spent half a summer building her shelving and other furniture for her room.

She teaches art and has to deal with storing all types of supplies. The school provides some storage and shelves and stuff like that, but she also brought in quite a bit of her own stuff. I made sure she put her name on everything I built so if she ever leaves, we take it all with us.

I've even built a few things for some of the other teachers.

 

[Banjorear]

We're on the same page. IM me the link.

Dad was a college professor in a mid-tier state school. He "hated" undergraduates because he said "many are not prepared to write a complete sentence". So he taught grad students.

I dunno, it's not my problem (other than the costs for my kid who is likely 6-figure on a bar that I couldn't hit). but the whole US education system is F'd.

With the perspective of having 26.5 years in public education, I sadly have to agree. Things are looking up, but they are going to cost money to fix.

1) They are finally realizing/acknowledging that college is not for everyone.
2) They are changing the mindset on Vo-Tech schools being used as a dumping ground for all the behavior or "nontraditional" students. My local county Vo-Tech was just redone, completely modernized and kids need to qualify to get in. If you are an f-up, they toss you out. Shop classes are starting to slowly come back into public HS's and "required" computer classes are no longer "required" since AI will be replacing those jobs in about 4-6 years. Plus, most smart phones can do what the average PC can do, so why waste time teaching these skills.
3) The fiscal system of how schools are funded is completely broken. It is impossible to expect the local tax base to fund a school system that has unexpected costs attached to it. Schools can project what salaries are going to be for 5-6 years out, but no one can forecast if medical insurance rises 25% in one year while only being able to levy taxes at 2% or less of the overall budget. That is unsustainable. A different funding system has to be figured out.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Pick a different trade. Any trade.

Auto mechanic is thankless, expensive, dirty career. It's a much better hobby. Go be an aircraft mechanic, or a welder or a millwright or an industrial electrician or....

True for the guy "swapping parts" !

For a really smart tech, automotive diagnostics is where it is at ! Well paid "diagnosticians" make up to $150k and seldom get their hands dirty !

Daughter had a transmission issue on a 5 year old car. Dealer wanted $200 just to "look at it" !

 

[HannibalLecter]

Pick a different trade. Any trade.

Auto mechanic is thankless, expensive, dirty career. It's a much better hobby. Go be an aircraft mechanic, or a welder or a millwright or an industrial electrician or....

Bike mechanic/mechatronic is worse lol. Race to the bottom

 

[theoldwizard1]

It all comes down to one thing: Nobody wants to develop talent. They expect it to just show up at their door and be fully trained. How this is possible is a question that's never asked.

This was true when I goy out of college in the 70s !

Computers (even the big ones) were still kind of new. Not all universities had full blown computer science programs. Luckily, I learned enough, on my own, using computers in college to get my "foot in the door" for my first computer programing job.

I would say it was a life long learning experience. From writing Fortran to assembly language on fuel injection computers to understanding internals of processors and finally managing multiple servers.

 

[theoldwizard1]

And with the Icon line of tools at HF now, that $750 can buy quite a lot of quality tools. Or if the new tech is really short on tools, perhaps go for the Quinn sets. Then later replace with better stuff.

Many, MANY years ago, Snap-On gave discounts on your first set of tools. TERRIBLE IDEA !

The Snap-On man became a "drug dealer". He would show up once a week to get your payment and then dangle shiny new tools to put you deeper in debt !

 

[CGarage]

Many, MANY years ago, Snap-On gave discounts on your first set of tools. TERRIBLE IDEA !

The Snap-On man became a "drug dealer". He would show up once a week to get your payment and then dangle shiny new tools to put you deeper in debt !

Great marketing idea, especially since the “victims” have an ability to incur debt, and little idea as to what they will really need!

 

[ecotec]

Great marketing idea, especially since the “victims” have an ability to incur debt, and little idea as to what they will really need!

It, definitely, starts with a lot of automotive tech schools (I am not referring to HD programs). A good amount of tech schools still have a lot of SAE on their tool lists. I question whether they are getting kickbacks from somewhere to require this.

 

[Cruzan80]

Daughter had a transmission issue on a 5 year old car. Dealer wanted $200 just to "look at it" !

And this is different than most other trades, how? Any professional service call is at least this much, just to ring your doorbell. The tech works for free to figure out the issue, with all the liability, only to be told "I will do it myself"?


Not saying all trades overcharge, just putting the amount in context relative to any other work done.

 

[dr_clyde]

And this is different than most other trades, how? Any professional service call is at least this much, just to ring your doorbell. The tech works for free to figure out the issue, with all the liability, only to be told "I will do it myself"?


Not saying all trades overcharge, just putting the amount in context relative to any other work done.

Some people don't understand opportunity cost in business.

If I am "just looking" at your problem, I am not making any money on someone else's job. It literally costs me my shop rate to do nothing.

Therefore, I must charge you to take time to look at your problem, even if I do "nothing".

When you are a wage earner or salary earner, your earnings are limited by either the hours you are permitted to work or the salary you've negotiated. This is how the "DIY saves money" mindset took hold. If you can't earn money with your time, you can save it by doing work you'd have to pay for otherwise.

When you own a business, your earnings are only limited by how many jobs you can do in a day. If you always have work you could be doing, your time has the opportunity cost of whatever you can charge for that work. DIY only saves a business owner money if they can do the thing for less money than they would be otherwise making at work.

Example. Let's say I have a plumbing issue. I get a quote for $300, $100 in parts, $200 in labor. I charge $100/hr for my time in the shop. If I can do that job in less than 2 hours, it's worth my time to stay home and do it myself. However, if I can't do it in less than 2 hours, I am now money ahead to pay the plumber. Plus, I'd much prefer to be at my shop making parts than wrestling some plumbing problem.

Some people assign little to no value to their time, so they assume no one else should. These are the people who will spend hours or days to save $100.

 

[Wrench-Polisher]

Tool allowances for auto techs just sounds like a pizza party for salaried employees who are forced to work 60 hour weeks.

 

[gtae07]

I remember there were some plugs we couldn't "clear" (airplanes have 2 x 4 sets of plugs and you have to check them before take off).

That's one I'm dealing with right now; I have one or two plugs that like to foul up right after landing and it's getting very annoying I can get them to clear with a good runup at least.

But he's just one medical away or one flight test away from being "done done". F - that. I flew with many CFI-I / CFI-II that failed a test and can't move forward after 6-figures in debt.

I think that might be another one of many reasons Dad told me not to fly for a living all those years ago (he's now retired from a major US airline).

Any professional service call is at least this much, just to ring your doorbell. The tech works for free to figure out the issue, with all the liability, only to be told "I will do it myself"?

I think people have gotten used to (or expect) "free quote!". But that's different, because a quote is like a sales pitch, and like advertising, it's a cost of doing business that is supposed to eventually earn more income.

If you always have work you could be doing, your time has the opportunity cost of whatever you can charge for that work.

I generally agree with your point, but having had this argument with the wife... the bold part is key. Most people don't have the option of freely picking up work at any given time. And there's also a question of how long it will take in an absolute sense. The pro may work faster than me, maybe the job isn't "worth my time" if I earn more per hour than I'm being charged... but sometimes you just gotta have it done now, and maybe the pro can't get to you till next Friday.

 

[jd_1138]

................
Some people assign little to no value to their time, so they assume no one else should. These are the people who will spend hours or days to save $100.

Many of those people's time is not worth much. Low information people. They don't earn a lot because they never improved their skills.

They don't respect the skills, knowledge, tools required, hard work, etc. of others. My GF's daughter and her BF are like that. They had a 10 year old car that needed $300 of work. They didn't have the $300 and let the car rot for 2 years before selling for scrap. It used to be nice. So now they have a high car payment on 2 cars (bad credit).

They went to move out of an apartment and into a relative's house a few miles away. They had access to the house for 6 months. I suggested they take over a load every night in their small SUV until it's all moved. Or hire a local co. that provides 2 guys and a truck for $100/hr. But they work hard -- move boxes on hand carts stacked high, carry all furniture. Fast too.

Her BF replied "I got it figured out". They waited until the last possible day. Nothing was even packed. They ended up abandoning a lot of stuff and got a $1500 cleanout charge from apartment. And they lost some valuable stuff they needed.

People like that are a slow-motion car wreck. They have nothing figured out and don't respect those who do.

 

[richfinn]

The more traditional apprenticeship/ later educational work-learn is what came to mind regarding this as well. I can't remember the wording for it in German. It's something I think the American education system could benefit from greatly.

In the UK they will insist on foundational English/Mathematics qualifications before you are accepted into a vocational training program nowadays, it was different when I was a teenager back in the 1980s, you could start an apprenticeship at 15 years old as long as you could pass the entry exam/interview.

British kids with even the slightest bit of academic ability are automatically pushed down the University route today because it reflects well on whichever High School they attend!!!

 

[finn]

And this is different than most other trades, how? Any professional service call is at least this much, just to ring your doorbell. The tech works for free to figure out the issue, with all the liability, only to be told "I will do it myself"?


Not saying all trades overcharge, just putting the amount in context relative to any other work done.

The HVAC guy I use charges $75 for a service call.

Same thing for the appliance repairman in Tucson.

And both come to the house.

For $200 you go to the dealer and he probably uses the same service port as the kid at P’Rileys that checks engine codes for free.

Last trans diagnostics I did at an independent shop was free, but it was several years ago.