Tools of Japan

[HannibalLecter]

It's not that unusual in the tool game, Snap On are having issues with their 100 tooth ratchets. And some of their air tools (IM6100) used to really ****, still a great tool company though

I know and I agree. The problem is that Koken either won't address it or they will be too slow. And there are no other high count koken ratchets. With snapon you could just get back to a dual80

 

[richfinn]

I know it's not fair to expect companies in higher wage areas to compete on price with Taiwan or China, but something has to give here. If nowadays even the really cheap tools are very serviceable, companies charging so much for a 1/4" ratchet really need to be on top of their game. That thing should have NASA levels of testing and QA.

You could say the same about $100,000 automobiles, perfection simply doesn't exist and if it did most of us would be out of a job

 

[richfinn]

I know and I agree. The problem is that Koken either won't address it or they will be too slow. And there are no other high count koken ratchets. With snapon you could just get back to a dual80

I understand your disappointment, but it's really not worth stressing about, try my solution

 

[Andres26tnt]

Just use the solution suggested or sell it/return it. Koken is slow because it's a Japanese company, primarily selling in Asia. The USA is a secondary market, it's why they choose a 3rd party middle man to enter the USA market.

 

[Typhon]

talking about Sunflag, have anyone tried this Sunflag 7150?



T Handle plus locking bit holder would be perfect for my needs

I purchased three of them.
It should be the only T-handle wrench designed for use with A-type (13mm).
It fits perfectly with Japanese standard screwdriver bits that have a 13mm groove.

 

[bongkar_YES_pasang_NO]

I purchased three of them.
It should be the only T-handle wrench designed for use with A-type (13mm).
It fits perfectly with Japanese standard screwdriver bits that have a 13mm groove.

great, should fit my Vessel double sided bits

how's the locking mechanism, is there noticeable play?

 

[Dave455]

Had to remove a decorative cover from a domestic radiator today. No problem, except that one of the screws is almost impossible to access when the rad is plumbed in.

Koken R810B to the rescue.

These simple tools would be overlooked by many, being relatively old tech. The secret however, is in the dedicated short bits with their integrated retention detent.

I don’t own any screwdriving tool with a lower overall height than these.

 

[Typhon]

great, should fit my Vessel double sided bits

how's the locking mechanism, is there noticeable play?

It is not a magnetic locking design.
After locking, there is a certain amount of axial play, while the side-to-side wobble is minimal.

 

[Wrench-Polisher]

Todays edition of my Ko-Ken edition brought to you by wobble and weave and flex.

 

[fishwatcher]

Thanks, but too expensive. I'm just going to hit the local leather/shoe repair shop.

@rick carpenter Did you ever get or make a leather liner for your Toyo box?

 

[Steel_Rain]

Koken R810B to the rescue.

I don't have a 5/16" bit ratchet. Is this still in production/available Dave?

 

[Dave455]

I don't have a 5/16" bit ratchet. Is this still in production/available Dave?

Yes, it is!

The only thing to note is that the “bit ratchet” isn’t anything special. It’s basically an old style 1/4” x 5/16” ratcheting wrench.

The bit retention is due to the sprung detent balls in the actual bits. If you had a set of the bits, you could substitute any 1/4 x 5/16 ratcheting wrench.

Although the KoKen is quite compact, and inexpensive, and I like the box!

 

[Ohio Andy]

Yes, it is!

The only thing to note is that the “bit ratchet” isn’t anything special. It’s basically an old style 1/4” x 5/16” ratcheting wrench.

The bit retention is due to the sprung detent balls in the actual bits. If you had a set of the bits, you could substitute any 1/4 x 5/16 ratcheting wrench.

Although the KoKen is quite compact, and inexpensive, and I like the box!

I hadn't even thought about it until you said something, what I think my only 5/16 in ratcheting wrench came with my Vim VM77 set. I'm assuming they sell that ratchet separately but I never checked..

 

[rick carpenter]

@rick carpenter Did you ever get or make a leather liner for your Toyo box?

Oh man, sorry to have let this slip my mind, @fishwatcher! I got some leather from a weight lifter's belt. Stiff as a board, about .2" thick. I coated the liner with neatsfoot oil & beeswax and put it out in the sun for a few hours to heat/absorb. Not an oily finish, but certainly not pretty either. I bought the belt for the leather, about $5 in a garage sale.

 

[fishwatcher]

That actually looks great. It’s awesome you were able to repurpose something to make it.

I’ve looked into buying leather to make a liner for the Toyo boxes that I have incoming from Amazon. Time will tell what I end up doing.

 

[Steel_Rain]

Annex 3450-S2:







Engineer PZ-33:

 

[Steel_Rain]

Engineer PZ-78:






Very interesting, two sided jaw print:

 

[Dave455]

Engineer PZ-78:






Very interesting, two sided jaw print:

Those Anex drivers look nice.

I had a very small set of inexpensive Anex drivers that I used to reserve just for changing batteries in cheap ****, but your drivers look to be in a different league quality wise.

 

[rick carpenter]

Annex 3450-S2:

I'm really liking the looks of these. How do they feel in hand? Cool that the set includes the magnet.

 

[Steel_Rain]

but your drivers look to be in a different league quality wise.

I would rate these above average in terms of quality for small drivers. I do enjoy the grips on my PB Swiss small driver set better, but these were much more inexpensive and I feel like the tips are of equal quality.

How do they feel in hand?

Good and better then my Vessel small driver sets. The handle material allows you to transfer force fairly well.

 

[Ohio Andy]

Annex 3450-S2:

When I first saw them in your picture they looked to me like they were wiha. That's simply based on the shape from the far away picture. I have never tried either. Although I do not like full size wera drivers in general, ignoring the little ratcheting stubby that I like. I also really like all their micros and I have a bunch of those

Thanks for posting...

 

[Mr. Tool]

Amazon has that same Anex mini screwdriver set for $23.89

And yes it is a pretty cool set to have and as someone previously stated it even comes with a magnet!

 

[Steel_Rain]

Haven’t seen this posted in this thread, but shout out to my local Mom&Pop hardware store for still having some legacy “Impact Gold” Makita bits on the shelf that I purchased this evening:




I admit to cleaning the dust off the packaging before photographing these.

A Quick look on Amazon shows much of the impact gold is still available, but I’m told these are discontinued. I will be buying more of them before they are gone. Many of the impact gold bits (maybe all?) are made in Japan.

Anyone know who the OEM was for Makita? Vessel or Anex? Someone else?

 

[cbracer]

My dad's old bicycle tool pack. Doesn't look like he used it..... I think his bicycle was made in japan and this came with it.

 

[four.cycle]

@cbracer -
are any of the tools in that set also marked "HKC"?
(like maybe the adjustable wrench?)

 

[Ultradog MN]

I still get alerts for this thread after posting about some little pliers I got months ago.
Today it reminded me of the 12" Kamakura rotary table I got at an auction a year or so ago. I dont use it often but when you need it you need it.
I made a plate so I can bolt a junky China chuck to it then dial a part in and tighten the 4 bolts down.
It's a nice Japanese tool that I'm proud to own.

 

[GeoBruin]

Yea, so I couldn't find anything thus far that doesn't fit / hold near perfect:












I've tried about 50 different bits (mostly longer style) so far and I can't report any bit wobble or problems securing them.

Impressive so far.

Maybe this has been beat to death, but mine just arrived and I'm pretty blown away. I admit to not really following the discussion of the retention mechanism closely, but I wasn't prepared for this. It literally grips any 1/4" hex and prevents it from coming out. It doesn't matter the size or location of the detent, or even if there is a detent at all. It's like a Chinese finger trap. Yet, releasing is simply as giving the slightest little pull on the ribbed ring. I actually can't imagine an easier solution.

 

[rick carpenter]

Klein Tools 32960A:









So yea…this is good. Like, real good. Like I have 100+ drivers and this is in my top 10 thus far. I’m spending some time this evening trying to find bits that it DOES NOT hold well and so far, I can’t find any. Mega impressive and I’ll be getting another. I’ll be using this during this week and next to check its daily driver use case.

Well built, feels weighted, love how easy the engagement and the slide mechanism is just tight. The grip feel high quality and the fitment in my hand is on par or slightly better then the Vessel/Anex ball grips I own. Definitely worth the money.

Klein went with an included Japanese profile + bit, knowing that the general use of these for now will be in the hands of western pro and amateur sparkies mangling using western/SAE Phillips bits. They could have more easily stayed with including a Phillips bit. Makes me wonder if the rest of their Phillips lineup will transition to Japanese profile + tips? I hope so.

 

[Andres26tnt]

Klein went with an included Japanese profile + bit, knowing that the general use of these for now will be in the hands of western pro and amateur sparkies mangling using western/SAE Phillips bits. They could have more easily stayed with including a Phillips bit. Makes me wonder if the rest of their Phillips lineup will transition to Japanese profile + tips? I hope so.

They won't, it's prob just a byproduct of going to a Japanese manufacturer for it's driver. Also most of the line is from Taiwan, meaning they will get what they offer. Maybe they could offer rebranded JIS but remember the USA doesn't use the same end shank as Japan. So that's a big if imo.

 

[stonesfan68]

I’m in Tokyo and stopped by a store called Factory Gear. They sell tools and serve beer! I also stopped at Royal Home Center (their version of Home Depot) that had a nice selection of Japanese tools.

The Factory Gear salesman was very knowledgeable and knew where everything was in the store. He asked me about my use of tools which I told him was car repair. He recommended the Deen brand of tools which is their house brand. They make the tools in Japan, Taiwan, and Germany. The nippers are excellent and he let me try them out before I bought them.

 

[cbracer]

@cbracer -
are any of the tools in that set also marked "HKC"?
(like maybe the adjustable wrench?)

Yes, HKC is also marked just above Hozan on the case you can see in the pic. The adj wrench has KOAR on it, spoke wrench HKC, and the rim bars are SIMSON. Doesn't look like high quality, but all made in japan.

 

[Steel_Rain]

Maybe this has been beat to death, but mine just arrived and I'm pretty blown away. I admit to not really following the discussion of the retention mechanism closely, but I wasn't prepared for this. It literally grips any 1/4" hex and prevents it from coming out. It doesn't matter the size or location of the detent, or even if there is a detent at all. It's like a Chinese finger trap. Yet, releasing is simply as giving the slightest little pull on the ribbed ring. I actually can't imagine an easier solution.

BZEUG posted a video of bit fitment:

I must say I agree with his testing and results. For $17 bucks, this is a great tool and if your workflow includes changing out extended bits with any type of 1/4" driver, go buy this right now.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

My general impression from here in Europe, is that Japanese tool brands don't bother with us - availability is poor. I believe it's the same in the US by seeing people buying on Amazon Japan and using shipping forwarding companies.

Anyone offer an explanation?

 

[Wrench-Polisher]

y general impression from here in Europe, is that Japanese tool brands don't bother with us - availability is poor. I believe it's the same in the US by seeing people buying on Amazon Japan and using shipping forwarding companies.

Anyone offer an explanation?

No we have plenty of companies that sock the product here in USA.
It is the marketing demography and segmentation.

Majority of American consumers will stay in the pool of china/taiwan tools with something like icon ratchets being seeing as top tier. That would be the majority of consumers.

If we make that leap from lets say Icon taiwan/china lets say 44 dollar ratchet to lets say 100 dollar Z series ratchet that is a LOT of difference.
That is a significant price jump.
The problem is the target market. Who is willing to pay so much money for a ratchet? Professionals are willing to throw another 100 dollars at that ratchet for a snap on so they have a tool truck to service their tools and take care of the warranty. Ko-ken and other Japanese tool makes can not offer that kind of service.

So who do you have left? People who are wrenching enthusiasts who love good tools and dont mind paying extra or maybe a professional who doest mind waiting. That is a small segment of our population.

 

[Andres26tnt]

No we have plenty of companies that sock the product here in USA.
It is the marketing demography and segmentation.

Majority of American consumers will stay in the pool of china/taiwan tools with something like icon ratchets being seeing as top tier. That would be the majority of consumers.

If we make that leap from lets say Icon taiwan/china lets say 44 dollar ratchet to lets say 100 dollar Z series ratchet that is a LOT of difference.
That is a significant price jump.
The problem is the target market. Who is willing to pay so much money for a ratchet? Professionals are willing to throw another 100 dollars at that ratchet for a snap on so they have a tool truck to service their tools and take care of the warranty. Ko-ken and other Japanese tool makes can not offer that kind of service.

So who do you have left? People who are wrenching enthusiasts who love good tools and dont mind paying extra or maybe a professional who doest mind waiting. That is a small segment of our population.

Perfectly said, for the most part Japanese manufacturer can't offer that kind of service/products. The price will just increase by a lot to offset lost revenue.

 

[Wrench-Polisher]

Which leads me to my question. Why do you people use Japanese tools?
Way more expensive than china and taiwan option. Cheaper than snapon but no service.
Is it because they make a specific tool? Or do you just like the brand and quality? Or is it something else?

 

[HannibalLecter]

Which leads me to my question. Why do you people use Japanese tools?
Way more expensive than china and taiwan option. Cheaper than snapon but no service.
Is it because they make a specific tool? Or do you just like the brand and quality? Or is it something else?

Different, distinctive flavor, unique patterns and sometimes unmatched performance (backdrag or screwdrivers). I also like the country of origin to be sth other than china/taiwan

 

[Vinny]

As I was researching toolboxes (tool chests) recently, I was wondering what the mechanics and machinist in Japan are using? Is there a common brand over there putting out boxes similar to what Snap On, Matco, Mac, etc. offer in the US?

 

[terrific]

I believe it's the same in the US by seeing people buying on Amazon Japan and using shipping forwarding companies.

There's good availability online, but they're completely absent from physical stores, so the option isn't generally well known. Sadly, a lot of the more esoteric offerings don't make it over here at all.
When I ordered from overseas, I was trying primarily trying to get those tools that weren't available elsewhere, but I added additional items which, while they are available from domestic sites, were being sold at substantially lower prices.
There was a time before Koken restricted sales from amazon.jp to US addresses and it was kind of eye-opening to see how insane some of the markups are. Somewhere on the trip over the ocean, Koken goes from being really well made tools to luxury items. Tariffs certainly have not helped.

 

[Dave455]

My general impression from here in Europe, is that Japanese tool brands don't bother with us - availability is poor. I believe it's the same in the US by seeing people buying on Amazon Japan and using shipping forwarding companies.

Anyone offer an explanation?

The primary market for Japanese tool manufacturers is Japan itself. Always has been. I wouldn’t say that Japanese manufacturers “don’t bother” with Europe. Some, such as Vessel, make quite an effort, but they will always be competing against a domestic product.

Here in the U.K, some Japanese manufacturers have a considerable presence. Companies such as KoKen have always made an effort, but they have never really been available through retail outlets.

They were originally supplied through trade suppliers of Japanese bike spares, latterly through agricultural suppliers. Now they are available online too, but traditional tool retailers have largely vanished, so it doesn’t matter.

Tools from the smaller manufacturers can turn up anywhere. In my local town I have three electrical wholesalers. One sells Knipex pliers, one NWS, and a third predominantly Tsunoda. So the Japanese tools are available, if you pick the right supplier.

Which leads me to my question. Why do you people use Japanese tools?
Way more expensive than china and taiwan option. Cheaper than snapon but no service.
Is it because they make a specific tool? Or do you just like the brand and quality? Or is it something else?

It depends where you are. For me in the U.K. an average Japanese tool isn’t significantly more expensive than an average Taiwanese one, but in many cases (not all) is significantly better quality.

I would say that Japanese tools occupy that “sweet spot“ between poor quality Chinese tools (perhaps at low prices, perhaps not) and expensive U.S. tools. For most people, that’s probably about the ideal.

In real terms, there is little difference in service. One will be delivered on a Snap On truck, the other a couriers truck.

Some Japanese products sell because of the range on offer, and the consistency of the product. I know that pretty much any socket I need is manufactured by KoKen, and that every one of their products I have bought has been faultless. Reasonable prices too (about a third of comparable Snap On in the U.K).

Overall, some pretty solid arguments.