OP
'78 F350 Dually Project
- Thread starter RivennHewn
- Start date
rattle_snake
Well-known member
The edel heads themselves are not a fail, my point is the package isn't a good fit for OP's application.
OP
RivennHewn
Well-known member
Lapping??!!If I can lap a Stanley No. 8, surely I can lap a couple thousandths off an exhaust manifold.
Fool’s folly
48" belt sander for the win Riv.
OP
RivennHewn
Well-known member
Santa failed me last ChristmasLapping??!!
48" belt sander for the win Riv.
Jblount3
Well-known member
I’m a little late to the party, I pulled my front clip and took the engine and trans out together on my 77. Front cops come off easy. My 79 mud truck is down to 2 steering lines to rad hoses, fan wire and 12 bolts.
Jblount3
Well-known member
I like the build, and I’m exploring the 100 ways to build a 460 too. I built one for the 77 and next up is the 79
OP
RivennHewn
Well-known member
Post a pic or two
M.Brane
ALLIANCE MEMBER
No exhaust gaskets is the way. Just make sure everything is flat.
danski0224
Well-known member
I used Remflex on mine, no issues.
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Send him a few of those Walter 4.5" flap discs... Flatness is over-rated.Lapping??!!
48" belt sander for the win Riv.
Jblount3
Well-known member
Jblount3
Well-known member
OP
RivennHewn
Well-known member
Thanks for taking the time to post the pics!
A buddy’s 557 for inspiration
I’m on hold til I hear back from the machine shop on my heads. Then I’ll have a decision to make.
I’ve found a 300 six that looks like a good prospect, at a good price.
Just need to figure out which is more cost effective.
Jblount3
Well-known member
Where are you at? I have spare heads in Mn. 460 is going to be more money but it is a big block v8 so it has that going for it
OP
RivennHewn
Well-known member
Ya, shipping would be a bit much
I did hear from the machine shop this afternoon.
Not really what I wanted to hear. Miss matched per engineering codes, and one is cracked. (Dye test)
They may have a source for another pair, but believed to be untested. Not sure about the $$.
A running 300 is sounding better
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
The 300 would be my choice, Riv. Simple, tough, torquey, easy on gas. Cheap to own, easy to repair.
I had a F-250, 4-speed with a 460 ~25 years ago- horrible gas mileage, hard starting, not really that great towing a loaded horse trailer over the Rockies. (Of course I wasn't running nitrous like @rattle_snake ) Gave it to my brother across the Sound from you, never looked back.
YMMV
I had a F-250, 4-speed with a 460 ~25 years ago- horrible gas mileage, hard starting, not really that great towing a loaded horse trailer over the Rockies. (Of course I wasn't running nitrous like @rattle_snake
) Gave it to my brother across the Sound from you, never looked back.YMMV
danski0224
Well-known member
"Pirate Ship".Ya, shipping would be a bit much
danski0224
Well-known member
And this is where aftermarket heads may be cheaper.
txvwnut
Well-known member
I don't remember for sure but I believe the 6 bangers used a different bell housing than the V-8's. Not to mention engine mounts and possibly radiator hose locations. I would look at a set of new aftermarket heads versus buying a used a set then having to have them rebuilt.Ya, shipping would be a bit much
I did hear from the machine shop this afternoon.
Not really what I wanted to hear. Miss matched per engineering codes, and one is cracked. (Dye test)
They may have a source for another pair, but believed to be untested. Not sure about the $$.
A running 300 is sounding better
danski0224
Well-known member
Engine mounts and frame pedestals will be different, unless the truck originally came with the 300 and the 460 was butched in and the original stands were retained.
XJSuperman
Well-known member
I typically have nothing to add here, but I've been following along, and since the topic of longevity has come up, I figured I'd add a little story I learned this past weekend at a tractor show. I met a fella from southern Missouri who owns a small machine shop. He was camping out of a 1986 f350 dually extended cab that I had assumed in past years I'd seen it, was a 6.9idi. I was wrong. He informed me that if the truck had had a 6.9l, he would have been through 3 blocks by now. As I scratched my head, he tells me the truck is a 460 and has almost 900,000 miles on it. Yes, 900,000 miles. At 600,000, he bored it 30 over and touched on the cam but nothing wild, just a cleanup. Its still carbureted and he goes all over the country in it. Went to the far corners of the PNW just last year to buy a car. Hes also milking over 11mpg out of it in that loaded pickup and the original C6 with gears 1 and 2 swapped out for those from an RV chassis C6.
OP
RivennHewn
Well-known member
Changing over to a 300 would require new mounts, but the mount towers are stock. I’m assuming they’ll work.
If I go this direction, I’d most likely go with a ZF5 ******.
All the misc brackets for alt/power steering come with the one I’m looking at, but I’m sure there will be issues. That’s half of the fun
If I go this direction, I’d most likely go with a ZF5 ******.
All the misc brackets for alt/power steering come with the one I’m looking at, but I’m sure there will be issues. That’s half of the fun
danski0224
Well-known member
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Motor mounts would be the easiest part of the swap....
txvwnut
Well-known member
One or both of the mount towers is longer on the 6cyl than the V-8. It's been a few years since I've touched a 6cyl Ford.Changing over to a 300 would require new mounts, but the mount towers are stock. I’m assuming they’ll work.
If I go this direction, I’d most likely go with a ZF5 ******.
All the misc brackets for alt/power steering come with the one I’m looking at, but I’m sure there will be issues. That’s half of the fun
Make sure the bellhousings are the same between the 6cyl and the V-8 before making a decision on the swap and what transmission to use.
rattle_snake
Well-known member
I suggest contacting Scott at parkland performance and machine, somewhat local to you. He specializes in 460s.
A mis match of casting numbers in not necessarily bad. There are multiple casting numbers for the same casting.
Another option is to buy a complete 460. They were used in stationary applications like generators and NG pumps and can be had for cheap at auctions.
The only head cheaper than having a set rebuilt are the import Procomps. You can read about them with a search. Mixed opinions.
A mis match of casting numbers in not necessarily bad. There are multiple casting numbers for the same casting.
Another option is to buy a complete 460. They were used in stationary applications like generators and NG pumps and can be had for cheap at auctions.
The only head cheaper than having a set rebuilt are the import Procomps. You can read about them with a search. Mixed opinions.
OP
RivennHewn
Well-known member
Good to know
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I guess the big question is do you really need the big block? IIRC, You're not hauling heavy loads very far or very often, just a few logs here and there?
OP
RivennHewn
Well-known member
Correct. But, if I was getting better than 7MPG I might drive it more
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
That's a full 1 mpg better than I was getting with my old F250 with the 460.Correct. But, if I was getting better than 7MPG I might drive it more
OP
RivennHewn
Well-known member
If I’m going to get that mileage, it better go really fastThat's a full 1 mpg better than I was getting with my old F250 with the 460.
We already discussed this option riv and you shot it down
As for the 6r swap. Do you really think that’ll be more cost effective. Other than the mounts and maybe the bell housing, you’re also talking exhaust mods and potentially throttle cable and driveshaft. None of that is a big deal, just a time eater.
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Yanking logs out of the Sound at 100mph. Post video!
OP
RivennHewn
Well-known member
I don’t do schedules or budgets at home. Those are left at work.We already discussed this option riv and you shot it down
As for the 6r swap. Do you really think that’ll be more cost effective. Other than the mounts and maybe the bell housing, you’re also talking exhaust mods and potentially throttle cable and driveshaft. None of that is a big deal, just a time eater.
And my exhaust turned to dust when I touched it
danski0224
Well-known member
danski0224
Well-known member
Even a "new" one with fuel injection gets crappy mileage out of the box. Not really sure what can be done to get any significant improvements- even 1 mpg could be a 15% gain. A Gear Vendors overdrive is over $2k last I looked.
A stock 460 from the smog era doesn't really have great numbers.
Putting one together isn't exactly cheap, either. It wasn't when I did mine, and although it is easier now (more parts, more information available), it is still expensive. And nothing is really "new", as the basics were hashed out when? 30 years ago (or more?).
A mild build will be loads better than stock, but if you are looking for fuel economy, then just stop now. I bet you will easily hit $4k for a "stock" build of a 460.
If you want more MPG, then you need a newer powerplant (expensive and lots of changes) or a smaller engine from the same era as your truck, but the difference may not be so great... and the 351M/400 won't be any less expensive to build.
Pretty sure that all of the aftermarket 460 heads will require new pushrods (different length and hardened), pushrod guides and roller rockers. Having the machining done on stock heads for the same stuff isn't inexpensive, either.
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OP
RivennHewn
Well-known member
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Riv, sell @danski0224 your basket case 460, toss the 300 in the truck and get back to sawin' logs. We really need more sawmill posts...
danski0224
Well-known member
"Running" is almost always cheaper than "rebuilding".You’re talking me into a running 300 at a reasonable price
Go price out the parts and machining to fix your 460.
The 300 won't just drop in, either.
And if it's "running" now, for how long? The most current version ended production in 1996, which is almost 20 years newer than your truck.