rattle_snake
Well-known member
Plan B is liquify bolt heads. That engine would really like headers over the manifolds. Good ones that fit are expensive though. Cheap ones, well, that's why headers are hated.
'78 F350 Dually Project
- Thread starter RivennHewn
- Start date
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
3 shots/3 days of Kroil seems to have done the trick. No issues removing the manifolds or exhaust.
Need to research more, but these may be a good option
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WoodsTruck
Well-known member
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Ad says they're nice.
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
Educate me on harmonic balancers.
A 53 year old balancer is:
1) shot
2) has another 50 years of life left
3) if the rubber is missing, it’s toast.
4) replace if there are signs of wear by the seal
5) paint it black, and put it back
A 53 year old balancer is:
1) shot
2) has another 50 years of life left
3) if the rubber is missing, it’s toast.
4) replace if there are signs of wear by the seal
5) paint it black, and put it back
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
6) Paint it white, you'll be alright.
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rattle_snake
Well-known member
It is shot in terms of it's purpose, harmonic dampening. but it will go roundy-round just fine. I would replace if doing a full rebuild, but in your case, #3 or #5.
rattle_snake
Well-known member
And yes those PI manifold would work excellent if they fit the truck chassis.
danski0224
Well-known member
429/460 has an intermediate spacer behind the harmonic balancer. Later model engine (fuel injected) is externally balanced and there's a counterweight on the spacer. You don't want that one.
New spacers are available, as is a thin sleeve.
danski0224
Well-known member
Passenger car manifolds will NOT fit the truck frame on the passenger side.
Hedman makes the ONLY set of headers that will fit either a factory 460 2WD Ford -or- one that was converted with OEM engine stands and mounts.
If someone used engine swap stands or mounts, then good luck.
danski0224
Well-known member
Silver ones are old ones made by Hedman for third parties like Summit. Virtually identical to a new Hedman branded set.
Black ones are L&L "chassis exit". These will exit *below* the crossmember at the rear of the engine, and they will not go in from underneath. I could not get the truck high enough without a lift.
There are a couple of "shorty" variants, and I can verify that a version from Sanderson will NOT work.
Do not know about the L&L shorty version.
The Hedmans will slip in from underneath with the truck on jackstands.
The Hedmans have a CARB E.O. number.
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
Thanks again for taking the time to share your knowledge.
Silver ones are old ones made by Hedman for third parties like Summit. Virtually identical to a new Hedman branded set.
Black ones are L&L "chassis exit". These will exit *below* the crossmember at the rear of the engine, and they will not go in from underneath. I could not get the truck high enough without a lift.
There are a couple of "shorty" variants, and I can verify that a version from Sanderson will NOT work.
Do not know about the L&L shorty version.
The Hedmans will slip in from underneath with the truck on jackstands.
The Hedmans have a CARB E.O. number.
I’m hoping to just use the stock manifolds, but the motor mounts are a mess. Hack job. I’d like to start with original configuration, but who knows how that will work out for me.
I’ll start reading up on the header options you posted.
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
danski0224
Well-known member
You'll want one of these:
www.macscustomtiedowns.com
PiVOT Articulated Engine Lift Plate | Mac's Custom Tie-Downs
PiVOT Articulated Engine Lift Plate
www.macscustomtiedowns.com
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
Ouch!You'll want one of these:
PiVOT Articulated Engine Lift Plate | Mac's Custom Tie-Downs
PiVOT Articulated Engine Lift Plate
That’s twice what I paid for the lift
danski0224
Well-known member
I doubt you will be able to pull the engine and trans out as an assembly. I don't think I have been able to do that on mine.
Even with your tall hoist.
If that truck has power brakes and/or the big A/C box, good luck.
Not sure if I could get the tall aftermarket valve cover off if I had power brakes.
Even with your tall hoist.
If that truck has power brakes and/or the big A/C box, good luck.
Not sure if I could get the tall aftermarket valve cover off if I had power brakes.
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
It ain’t easy, but doable.
Had to strip it down more than I cared to.
Harder task is going to be reinstalling it.
I even had to pull the top off the gearbox, because the shifter bulb wouldn’t clear the cutout in the tunnel.
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
danski0224
Well-known member
Mine has a C-6 automatic transmission.
Even with that tall engine hoist, I doubt the engine and trans would come out as an assembly due to the height of the radiator core support.
I have a heavy duty Blue Bird knock down hoist that I bought (used) a long time ago. Could get the engine out by itself.
Even with that tall engine hoist, I doubt the engine and trans would come out as an assembly due to the height of the radiator core support.
I have a heavy duty Blue Bird knock down hoist that I bought (used) a long time ago. Could get the engine out by itself.
danski0224
Well-known member
Pretty sure Ford was doing AIR injection in the early 70's. I believe that 1976 would have been the last year for the 460 in passenger cars.
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
I could see that an auto would be more of a challenge .
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
Upon inspection, I don’t believe my rear main seal is leaking.
Ford, in their infinite wisdom, has one bell housing bolt hole that goes clear through to the lifter valley. If that bolt isn’t sealed, it leaks.
Bolt was not sealed, and not even torqued down.
If the rear main seal was leaking, there would be a lot more oil on the back of the pan.
Ford, in their infinite wisdom, has one bell housing bolt hole that goes clear through to the lifter valley. If that bolt isn’t sealed, it leaks.
Bolt was not sealed, and not even torqued down.
If the rear main seal was leaking, there would be a lot more oil on the back of the pan.
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danski0224
Well-known member
Oh yeah, that one...
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
Wasn’t really planning on going this deep
danski0224
Well-known member
Scope creep...
danski0224
Well-known member
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
That cost more than the truck🫣
danski0224
Well-known member
And?
rattle_snake
Well-known member
Edel heads **** compared to the other 460 options. Do not waste money on them.
But since the heads are off....
You can home port the exhaust side for free. Just hog out the bump and a little clean up. +30 hp.
Next step is pull the exhaust valve out and do minimal bowl work. that will get you to +50hp. Can also check the valve guides with springs off and see what type of general shape the heads are in. Leave the intake side alone.
Since you already have an aftermarket intake and a Holley 4150, a touch of porting and headers should get you over 300hp with stock cam. The low compression ratio really limits any type of performance cam. The Earlier D0 or D9 heads with smaller chamber can fix that.
This is a good 460 forum
But since the heads are off....
You can home port the exhaust side for free. Just hog out the bump and a little clean up. +30 hp.
Next step is pull the exhaust valve out and do minimal bowl work. that will get you to +50hp. Can also check the valve guides with springs off and see what type of general shape the heads are in. Leave the intake side alone.
Since you already have an aftermarket intake and a Holley 4150, a touch of porting and headers should get you over 300hp with stock cam. The low compression ratio really limits any type of performance cam. The Earlier D0 or D9 heads with smaller chamber can fix that.
This is a good 460 forum
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danski0224
Well-known member
So, what would be a good non-racing alternative?
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
Ya but!!...
Edelbrock Part #2045 Performer RPM Top End Kit is designed for 1968-87 Ford 460-522 V-8 engines. This Top End kit produced 506 HP & 536 TQ on a 460 c.i.d with 9.5:1 compression.
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
Ain’t no amount of HP gonna make this thing go any faster with the way it’s geared.Ya but!!...
Edelbrock Part #2045 Performer RPM Top End Kit is designed for 1968-87 Ford 460-522 V-8 engines. This Top End kit produced 506 HP & 536 TQ on a 460 c.i.d with 9.5:1 compression.
Might drink more gas though.
rattle_snake
Well-known member
AFR 280 (little one)
SCJ variants from Ford
Kasse P51
All of these have modern chambers, and a revised valve layout (SCJ) that need a corresponding piston/piston relief.
These do not, and will work with stock style piston.
TFS
Procomp (cheap Aluminum copy of stock-ish head)
Edelbrock (expensive and nothing special)
The edel top end kit numbers come from a 522 ci not a 460.
'506 HP & 536 TQ on a 460-522 Big-Block Ford engine.'
It has the wrong intake manifold (RPM) for a truck application, and a terrible choice of cam for a truck. The edel heads have 95cc chambers, same as stock heads and compression ratio is really low (8:1) and won't support a performance cam. The edel cam has 234 intake which requires at least 9.5 CR, which requires flat top pistons.
Three strikes, complete fail. The kit is for a high compression street strip machine, not a working truck.
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rattle_snake
Well-known member
Cam timing is dependent on compression ratio. They must correlate/match or you get one of two scenarios:
High comp, little cam = No overlap, cylinder pressure too high for pump gas octane. Ping, detonation.
Low comp, big cam = Lots of overlap, low cylinder pressure, low torque/low power. waste of money.
High comp, little cam = No overlap, cylinder pressure too high for pump gas octane. Ping, detonation.
Low comp, big cam = Lots of overlap, low cylinder pressure, low torque/low power. waste of money.
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rattle_snake
Well-known member
This would be a good cam 204/214 for a truck with stock pistons/heads.
www.summitracing.com
stock is 193/206
FORD Melling MTF-3 Melling M-Select Class 1 Camshafts | Summit Racing
Free Shipping - Melling M-Select Class 1 Camshafts with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Camshafts at Summit Racing.
stock is 193/206
rattle_snake
Well-known member
Example of what a 234 cam can do with good heads. 87 octane.
www.460ford.com
Parkland RHP 9.8 to 1 545. 680 tq and 640 hp at only...
This is a spec build for lower octane fuel and export to Australia. Going into an 83 Falcon 4 door and needing to run on 87 octane pump fuel in a pinch. Our area of interest is maximum torque on pump gas in the RPM window appropriate to the application. Race gas engines are of little interest...
www.460ford.com
danski0224
Well-known member
I have the Edelbrock 60679 heads with the 75cc chambers. They were $400.00 less, each, back in 2020.
My engine has OEM style dished hypereutectic pistons (which it wasn't supposed to have, but I got boned by the engine builder a long time ago and didn't know until I popped the heads off).
Those pistons and the Edelbrock heads mentioned above are apparently near 10:1 compression. Did the math/research a long time ago.
None of the SCJ valve heads would work in my application, unless I fly cut the reliefs in. Or, got new ones.
Considering that the engine was otherwise OK and already balanced long ago, I wasn't going to completely rebuild it.
My cam came from Cam Research, and it is a "custom" grind based on the information I provided. It is close to the Edelbrock cam in their advertised Power Package, but it is not the same. Cam Research apparently specializes in Ford.
I also have the Edelbrock 7566 Performer RPM Air Gap manifold with an 800 CFM AVS2 carb in the no longer available chrome finish.
No issues with the combination. Not sure of the MPG, but I have 17" of vacuum at idle once it warms up.
Any of those heads will require roller rockers and different pushrods.
Probably not the path that the OP will travel, but IMHO, the Edelbrock heads are not a fail. At least the ones I have. No real experience trying any of the others, and do not have the desire/time/funds to do so. I do know that sourcing early cast iron OEM heads with a desirable casting number is not easy any longer, and it will likely cost more $$$ to set them up vs buying new ones.
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
Sounds like there’s 100 ways to skin a 460
Mine are off to the machine shop.
Did the dumb thing of trying two different straight edges. One said flat, the other was .002+ gap. Maybe he has a real one.
But, he does have a tank
I didn’t need the hoist to load ‘em up, but wanted to play with my new toy.
Mine are off to the machine shop.
Did the dumb thing of trying two different straight edges. One said flat, the other was .002+ gap. Maybe he has a real one.
But, he does have a tank
I didn’t need the hoist to load ‘em up, but wanted to play with my new toy.
