plasma cutter vs. Oxy-Acetylene torch

[Mainiac Mat]

My first job on the new Arccaptain welder is going to be a repair to my tractor loader bucket (60" wide), which has rusted through in several places. To do this job I need to cut out panels of ~12 ga. steel, clean up the edges and then weld in repair panels, with splice plates on the bottom reinforcing the seams.

I've been eyeing Oxy-Acetylene bottles on all the usual second hand boards, but many are out of date, and I'm reading many reviews on the new bottles purchased online that the local Air Gas shops won't swap them (stating they only swap their own bottles). So to source 80 or 120 cu-ft. Oxy-Acetylene cylinders that I know the local Air Gas shop will swap, it's going to run $800-$1,000. And that's just for the bottles (I already have regulators, hose and torch (provided the mice haven't destroyed them in the barn loft).

Yet a new plasma cutter can be had for less than $500.

And I'm having the same issue with 75/25 Ar/CO2 bottles.... upwards of $500+ for a bottle I know the local shop will swap. So it looks like I'm going to have to run shielded core for the time being.

Up to now, I've been getting by pretty well using the little yellow MAP gas bottles to heat up stuck bolts. So setting up Oxy-Acetylene would be primarily for cutting. (Maybe I'd have application for brazing some day, but that day is not now).

So what says the forum? If you could only have one, and needed to do the job I described, would you rather bite the bullet and get Oxy-Acetylene bottles, or buy a plasma cutter?

 

[KwikFab]

I said this to the member asking about bottles - you need to ask your local supplier(s) about bottle exchanges and what's accepted and what isn't.

Just reading about other people's posts regarding one specific supplier shouldn't be the reason why you opt for one process over the other. Seems lazy.

I have experience with both, and I reach for plasma every time.

But if you need to cut something where no power is available (you need it for an air compressor as well), oxyfuel will be the obvious choice.

 

[InsanePyro]

I said this to the member asking about bottles - you need to ask your local supplier(s) about bottle exchanges and what's accepted and what isn't.

Just reading about other people's posts regarding one specific supplier shouldn't be the reason why you opt for one process over the other. Seems lazy.

I have experience with both, and I reach for plasma every time.

But if you need to cut something where no power is available (you need it for an air compressor as well), oxyfuel will be the obvious choice.

Oxy-fuel also doesn't care if you have a good ground or not or move the nozzle away etc.

 

[KwikFab]

Oxy-fuel also doesn't care if you have a good ground or not or move the nozzle away etc.

Think you meant to quote the author lol plus a plasma cutter's clamp is a work clamp (positive), not ground.

 

[LXCam]

My preference would be a plasma. But if you’re constantly wrenching on old larger iron I’d go OA. Sometimes there’s no replacement for a rosebud on large/thick whatever’s of iron. Problem is as you are seeing. You’re going to spend much more up front getting bottles and more importantly a good set of gauges and a torch.

The other thing about plasma you didn’t mention is do you have a compressor that can cover its requirements.

 

[jack stand]

Have you investigated oxy/propane?
I sure do appreciate having torches for straightening, bending and loosening not to mention the "liquid wrench" abilities that favors a gas torch over piercing with my plas.
Go ask a local gas supplier about your wants. I know that this can be a hour drive easily here in Maine, but Maine Oxy uses local hardware and automotive supplies as a drop off if you're "out there".
I've had my hypertherm for over 30 years. I've bought undated torch - leads and consumables and I can buy any part needed.
Not downing an obscure brand plas, but you WILL need consumables and parts period. Will that $500 plas cutter be sitting in the corner gathering dust because of non existent parts or service and your back to where you are now?
12ga is easily cut with a $40 "metal cutting" carbide blade in a skillsaw from Home depot.

 

[kwb]

I have never got the knack of cutting cleanly with OA. Part of it is probably my torch itself being abused 2nd gen hand me down.... I use it for heating things up and that is about it. Every so often I toy with the idea of practicing gas welding and then I move onto something else.

Plasma is awesome except for you need power and air wherever you go with it. I wouldn't skimp on brand or just accept that it is a disposable when something goes awry. Get a lot of the consumables now since you won't know if they will be available next week, month, or year.

 

[metalmagpie]

.. a repair to my tractor loader bucket (60" wide), which has rusted through in several places. To do this job I need to cut out panels of ~12 ga. steel, clean up the edges and then weld in repair panels, with splice plates on the bottom reinforcing the seams.

I love oxyfuel torches. Learned to cut with one when I was 15 (now 72), had them most of my life. But the job you describe is not a job for O/A. The material's too thin. If you don't own a plasma cutter now you can do your cuts with a cutoff wheel on an angle grinder.

If you cut out a neat hole and fit a panel in it cleanly and weld it well, I'm not sure about the splice plates on the bottom. Be sure you clean all the edges really well before you start. And you don't have to run long stringers. Keep your welds down to 2-3" and skip around.

If you do use reinforcement plates, only weld them on the sides not on the ends. And on the sides, don't weld them all the way to the end. Hold back 1/4" or the thickness of the patch material.

 

[CraigStu]

I don't know so I will ask. Aren't there some suppliers who rent tanks to you vs buying for several 100$?

 

[KwikFab]

I don't know so I will ask. Aren't there some suppliers who rent tanks to you vs buying for several 100$?

The author definitely needs to do this on their own and not be discouraged by responses posted here online.

Airgas near me is expensive, and is picky about the whole bottle exchange thing. And if you buy one from there, it's way up there in price which is why I'll never use them.

Then there's Weco, Barnes, Linde, and another one I forget.

Can't rely on just one shop, have to try others and see which one is best for you to use. I've got a great relationship with two different shops; the owner of Weco actually became a customer of mine when he bought a metal 3D model I welded while all my bottle exchanges are done at Barnes.

 

[c39er]

Oxy/acetylene....for heating stuck bolts, forming bending think and thin plate, bar.
Also for sheet metal welding and brazing.
I do have upper end Miller tig and mig plus stick.
I use my oxy/acet a lot.
Started like above in jr high...now 73.

 

[Mainiac Mat]

Thanks for the replies.... a few more details....

Compressor is no problem... got that covered.

I've spoken to the Airgas guys a couple times and they told me I'd be better off buying than renting... and then quoted me $440 for a 120 cf. empty inert gas bottle. Airgas is only a couple miles from where I work, so that's a plus.

I haven't spoken to Maine Oxy yet, as they are ~50 min. drive east or an 70 min. west.

I have Oxy-Acet. torch, hose and regulators.... but they are really old and have been in a box in the barn loft for years. Not sure if they are serviceable or not.

I have multiple angle grinders, die grinders, and corded porta-band.

On average, how many hours of MIG welding can one get out of a 120 cf. bottle of 75%/25% Ar/CO2 anyways? One bottle might last me a very long time.

 

[yatg]

On average, how many hours of MIG welding can one get out of a 120 cf. bottle of 75%/25% Ar/CO2 anyways? One bottle might last me a very long time.

If you're running at 15SCFH, then 120CF / 15CFH = 8 hours.
It should only be using gas when you're pulling the trigger.
Shut the bottle off when you're done in case there's internal leaks.

Recommend a flowmeter.

https://www.amazon.com/Yeswelder-Argon-Meter-Regulator-Welding/dp/B089PTVLL8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[nadogail]

20 years ago I was tasked with repairing a Hyper Therm Plasma Cutter; their customer service department walked me through solving and repairing the problem.
Because of that experience, I am a fan of Hyper Therm, if I ever buy a Plasma Cutter, you can be sure that it will probably be a Hyper Therm.

 

[zendriver]

I have both.

Gas setup does nothing but take up space in the garage. Thinking about selling. but can't recouped was I spent on gas/ox tanks alone.

Plasma cutter is high tech cool and get the job done quickly.

If you have neither, for what you want to do, gas is a waste of time and money. IMO.

 

[Firebrick43]

I love oxyfuel torches. Learned to cut with one when I was 15 (now 72), had them most of my life. But the job you describe is not a job for O/A. The material's too thin

What? With the proper cutting tips you can cut 20 gauge steel, no issues with an oxy acetylene torch. 12 gauge steel on a loader bucket is about as easy and vanilla of a job with an oxy fuel torch as one could have?

My first job on the new Arccaptain welder is going to be a repair to my tractor loader bucket (60" wide), which has rusted through in several places. To do this job I need to cut out panels of ~12 ga. steel, clean up the edges and then weld in repair panels, with splice plates on the bottom reinforcing the seams.

I've been eyeing Oxy-Acetylene bottles on all the usual second hand boards, but many are out of date, and I'm reading many reviews on the new bottles purchased online that the local Air Gas shops won't swap them (stating they only swap their own bottles). So to source 80 or 120 cu-ft. Oxy-Acetylene cylinders that I know the local Air Gas shop will swap, it's going to run $800-$1,000. And that's just for the bottles (I already have regulators, hose and torch (provided the mice haven't destroyed them in the barn loft).

Yet a new plasma cutter can be had for less than $500.

And I'm having the same issue with 75/25 Ar/CO2 bottles.... upwards of $500+ for a bottle I know the local shop will swap. So it looks like I'm going to have to run shielded core for the time being.

Up to now, I've been getting by pretty well using the little yellow MAP gas bottles to heat up stuck bolts. So setting up Oxy-Acetylene would be primarily for cutting. (Maybe I'd have application for brazing some day, but that day is not now).

So what says the forum? If you could only have one, and needed to do the job I described, would you rather bite the bullet and get Oxy-Acetylene bottles, or buy a plasma cutter?

Only one would be an oxy acetylene most definitely.

Plasma is terrible with rusty metal. My dad has a large hypertherm and we still use the torch more often. Quickly damaged consumables on the plasma cutting crappy metal far exceeds the cost of fuel.

Cutting rusty bolts, rivet heads, or rusty metal is much better with a torch. Cutting a clean line with a torch isn't hard if you practice and learn the correct settings and preheat. Yes its easier with a plasma but people have been using torches to do it for over a 120 years.

And even a small air craft torch can cut up to 4" thick.

I can not lie that I love a plasma, especially when working with aluminum or stainless steel but a poor craftsman blames his torch for poor results on steel.

 

[rsanter]

Only 12ga, plasma cutter.

i have both and oxy has its place.
good for heating, thicker material, remote away from electricity…..

 

[ATC]

Have you investigated oxy/propane?

This! You can nearly cut your costs in half with oxy/propane. You'll need an oxygen tank, but you can use any 20# BBQ grill tank for the fuel source. The only 'special' equipment you will need for propane over acetylene is the torch tips. They are different between the two.

I have an Oxy/Acy setup, and a plasma. The plasma is used more often, but there is no replacement for the Oxy-fuel when it's needed.

 

[jmdirk]

Given the OP use case I think it's a no brainer. Get a cheap plasma. The Cut50 type offshore plasmas can be had for about $200 or less. Consumables for the PT31 type torches that come with them are easily bought and relatively cheap.

Those cheap offshore units are surprisingly good value. Certainly not as good as a Hypertherm or Miller etc., but for the occasional use/DIY crowd they're hard to beat.

 

[gmcgeo]

I would get a cheap Plasma also, iv had an amazon plasma for over 8 years with no issues. No tanks i have to worry about, and cleaner and easier cutting

 

[Jackfre]

Call your local welding supply and ask about the cost of re—certifying a tank set-up. If this is to be mostly shop work I’d go plasma. Cleaner & easier, BUT…Buy at least one size over what you think you want or need. I like Hyper-Therm

 

[cannuck]

As should already be apparent from this thread: if you are doing mostly repair work, OA first choice but if a lot of fab work plasma is way to go. Only caveat is you need a LOT of plasma power for clean cuts in heavy metal (not a music pun).

 

[MOS3522]

If you buy a used torch, you will probably need new hoses as they have a 5-7 year service life (less if used a lot). Not a big expense but it is a big safety item.

 

[BobnCO]

Been covered well, but I have older OA and bought Hypertherm 45 a few years back. It does fine on moderately rusted material, generally always “cuts like a hot knife through butter”. Still use OA for heating up material etc.

 

[Mainiac Mat]

Considering plasma cutters, any thoughts on non-touch pilot arc starting, vs. touch starting?
Price difference is ~$40

 

[zendriver]

Considering plasma cutters, any thoughts on non-touch pilot arc starting, vs. touch starting?
Price difference is ~$40

Pilot arc helps cut through rust and crud to make better arc.

 

[nadogail]

For general repairs, a Rosebud tip on your Oxy: Acetylene torch can make things more cooperative. Orange gears can be easily removed from a shaft.

 

[yelchevelle]

I have both. Hypertherm plasma cutter gets pulled out 90-95% of the time if I am cutting metal, but if I was only going to have one, it would be the o/a torch. You can do too much as others have said that a plasma cutter just can't do with a o/a setup.

 

[ipgenie]

I have both. If I didn't have either I'd get the cheaper plasma for the bucket, then if I needed a torch later I'd get that too.

You must not have needed either in the past and you may not need either in the future. If you have a plasma cutter, you'll probably find other projects to use it on. If you get a torch, you'll likely find a use for that too, but in my experience, I use the plasma more than the torch.

It all depends on the kinds of projects you like to work on or plan to do in the future.

 

[zendriver]

I was removing the bolts, that hold the pickup truck bed on.

Rusty and of course, one of the tacked-in threaded fastener had to break loose, so the bolt just freely turned. It's recessed as well, no access from above unless cutting through bed floor.. Since I own a plasma cutter, might as well give it a try. Removed the wire standoff, got up in there and cut the bolt head off with relative ease. in just a few minutes. No damage to surrounding area.

Good luck using an O/A torch with that.

Other than playing with it, that the second time it use it for cutting something other than sheet metal. Had a rolling rack from a bread company that the middle folding shelf, was tilted up slightly, with some welded on small round metal pieces. I was just going to the handheld grinder to hack them off, then thought "WTF I have a plasma cutter, I've never used"

Buzzed them right off(standoff removed) with relative precision.

Pretty funny for a place where folks are obsessed with tools, balk about owning a plasma cutter, as if one will be bowing to tool Satan. For $150 bucks, maybe one of the neatest tools you will ever own.

 

[Firebrick43]

I was removing the bolts, that hold the pickup truck bed on.

Rusty and of course, one of the tacked-in threaded fastener had to break loose, so the bolt just freely turned. It's recessed as well, no access from above unless cutting through bed floor.. Since I own a plasma cutter, might as well give it a try. Removed the wire standoff, got up in there and cut the bolt head off with relative ease. in just a few minutes. No damage to surrounding area.

Good luck using an O/A torch with that.

No issue doing that with a torch. They even make special tips (rivet washing tips) that make it almost dummy proof so you don't have to have hardly any fine motor control. if you are damaging the sheet metal underneath with a torch you are either lacking in fine motor control or using way too big of a tip and the preheat flame is to hot/large as a result.

Pretty funny for a place where folks are obsessed with tools, balk about owning a plasma cutter, as if one will be bowing to tool Satan. For $150 bucks, maybe one of the neatest tools you will ever own.

Do you just make up stuff? No one "balked" about plasma cutters, they just said one tool does certain things better than the other from actual experience across years not just "this one time in band camp I used a plasma cutter to remove 8 bolts"

 

[zendriver]

No issue doing that with a torch. They even make special tips (rivet washing tips) that make it almost dummy proof so you don't have to have hardly any fine motor control. if you are damaging the sheet metal underneath with a torch you are either lacking in fine motor control or using way too big of a tip and the preheat flame is to hot/large as a result.

Do you just make up stuff? No one "balked" about plasma cutters, they just said one tool does certain things better than the other from actual experience across years not just "this one time in band camp I used a plasma cutter to remove 8 bolts"

Unless I'm missing something, the OP does not have years of experience.

Just trying to be helpful.

Sorry, I ruffled your feathers and thanks for setting me straight on the gas torch functionality. The plasma did not even damage the paint in the tight area. No doubt the o/a torch would not have as well.

 

[Firebrick43]

Unless I'm missing something, the OP does not have years of experience.

Thanks Mr Obvious. The statement had nothing to do with the OP. I don’t know why you are trying to twist it to that.

Just trying to be helpful.

LOL.

Pretty funny for a place where folks are obsessed with tools, balk about owning a plasma cutter, as if one will be bowing to tool Satan.

By using charged language comparing other opinions and years of experience with both processes to religious zealots? Extremely helpful

The plasma did not even damage the paint in the tight area. No doubt the o/a torch would not have as well.

The bussiness end of a plasma arc it 20000 degrees. Even as narrow as it is the vaporization of the steel bolt head next to the paint makes that impossible to have no damage.

 

[MOS3522]

The bussiness end of a plasma arc it 20000 degrees. Even as narrow as it is the vaporization of the steel bolt head next to the paint makes that impossible to have no damage.

No dog in the fight, but wanted to clarify the temp is 20,000 Celsius. aka 36,000 F.

 

[zendriver]

Thanks Mr Obvious. The statement had nothing to do with the OP. I don’t know why you are trying to twist it to that.

LOL.

By using charged language comparing other opinions and years of experience with both processes to religious zealots? Extremely helpful

The bussiness end of a plasma arc it 20000 degrees. Even as narrow as it is the vaporization of the steel bolt head next to the paint makes that impossible to have no damage.

The OP was looking to cut relatively thin sheet steel and apparently did not really want to invest in to gas tanks. If they were something he really wanted/needed, seems he’d already have a setup.

My reply was from a practical point, I thought.

Agree I should not pick on others.

Sorry.

 

[ATC]

I was removing the bolts, that hold the pickup truck bed on.

Rusty and of course, one of the tacked-in threaded fastener had to break loose, so the bolt just freely turned. It's recessed as well, no access from above unless cutting through bed floor.. Since I own a plasma cutter, might as well give it a try. Removed the wire standoff, got up in there and cut the bolt head off with relative ease. in just a few minutes. No damage to surrounding area.

Good luck using an O/A torch with that.

Other than playing with it, that the second time it use it for cutting something other than sheet metal. Had a rolling rack from a bread company that the middle folding shelf, was tilted up slightly, with some welded on small round metal pieces. I was just going to the handheld grinder to hack them off, then thought "WTF I have a plasma cutter, I've never used"

Buzzed them right off(standoff removed) with relative precision.

Pretty funny for a place where folks are obsessed with tools, balk about owning a plasma cutter, as if one will be bowing to tool Satan. For $150 bucks, maybe one of the neatest tools you will ever own.

I torched off the rear two body bolts on a 1978 Bronco with no damage to the body. The nuts underneath were above the gas tank, so I wasn't about to take off the bumper, hitch, and drop the tank on a 35 year old truck at the time. I was pretty inexperienced as well...and didn't even have the proper scarfing tip:

 

[BullsArmor]

My first job on the new Arccaptain welder is going to be a repair to my tractor loader bucket (60" wide), which has rusted through in several places. To do this job I need to cut out panels of ~12 ga. steel, clean up the edges and then weld in repair panels, with splice plates on the bottom reinforcing the seams.

I've been eyeing Oxy-Acetylene bottles on all the usual second hand boards, but many are out of date, and I'm reading many reviews on the new bottles purchased online that the local Air Gas shops won't swap them (stating they only swap their own bottles). So to source 80 or 120 cu-ft. Oxy-Acetylene cylinders that I know the local Air Gas shop will swap, it's going to run $800-$1,000. And that's just for the bottles (I already have regulators, hose and torch (provided the mice haven't destroyed them in the barn loft).

Yet a new plasma cutter can be had for less than $500.

And I'm having the same issue with 75/25 Ar/CO2 bottles.... upwards of $500+ for a bottle I know the local shop will swap. So it looks like I'm going to have to run shielded core for the time being.

Up to now, I've been getting by pretty well using the little yellow MAP gas bottles to heat up stuck bolts. So setting up Oxy-Acetylene would be primarily for cutting. (Maybe I'd have application for brazing some day, but that day is not now).

So what says the forum? If you could only have one, and needed to do the job I described, would you rather bite the bullet and get Oxy-Acetylene bottles, or buy a plasma cutter?

For that tractor bucket repair, a plasma cutter will make cleaner, faster cuts on the 12 ga steel and save a lot of grinding. Oxy-acetylene is still handy for heating and brazing down the road, but if it’s mostly cutting panels right now, plasma sounds like the better investment.

 

[abfish]

I don't use Airgas because of stuff like this. Hope you can find another supplier.

If you're going to do a lot of this type of work, you can't beat oxy-aceytylene. I say this having been around heavy equipment for 35 years.

OA can do it all. Cut, heat for bending or removing stuck pins or fasteners, even braze and weld. Does take a bit of practice, but with a straight edge and the right settings, OA can produce high quality cuts as well.

 

[MichaelP]

If we're talking about the particular task of cutting 12ga sheet for bucket repair, the choice of tools is easy. Either buy a laser cutter or Waterjet or, alternatively, you can use your angle grinder or Skill saw and have it done before Waterjet order is processed.

If the question is what may be needed for your future tasks, then consider both, Oxy-Acetylene setup and plasma. I suspect that with large implements you'll use the former more often.

 

[545_days]

I'll throw in another vote for researching oxy-propane. We demolished a couple of heavy wall reactor vessels at a refinery a couple of years ago and the contractor we hired to cut them up used oxy-propane. They were cutting 10" thick steel no problem.

Until witnessing that, I had no idea that oxy-propane even existed.