Anyone ever buy one of these sets? I'm looking at getting a new 3/8" drive set. Mostly because over the years I have lost so many of my sockets that I don't have a complete set anymore and with going to buy the missing sockets even though it is a fraction of a set I'm 3/4 of the way to a new set anyway. I'm a little confused though, the picture doesn't correlate with the description. Every place I find them, it is the same description and picture. I can't believe they would make a set that goes from 6-19mm and then 3/8-9/16". If it went up to 3/4" or 7/8" that would make more sense. The listing also says that they are Armstrong's E-eye sockets which the picture does confirm and they are USA made. I find the USA made part in question because this set is cheaper than a 29 pc 1/4" Armstrong set. Also this set isn't on Armstrongs website. I like the idea of this set and the majority of my tools I have now are USA made like SK, Wright, Mac, Klein, Craftsman. I hope Ideal brings SK back just like they were before and still made in the USA. I might have to go buy the SK 3/8" drive 45 pcs spline set that my local tool supplier is closing out, but I'm not sold on the whole spline socket set. I like 6pt sockets because they don't seem to round off nuts like 12 pts do, I would think the spline would round them off even more, but my salesman says they grip better than a 6 pt which I find hard to believe.
Armstrong 15-299?
- Thread starter ducati
- Start date
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
The ratchet is nice, as are the knurled extensions. However, the sockets are the same as the current dual marked Craftsman versions right down to the double staked retention on the female square drive end. The description is wrong about the SAE sizes. All of the online vendors cut and paste the same descriptions. Count the sockets and you can figure out the sizes.
This set isn't on Armstrong's website because it's exclusive to ISN (the people that supply most independent tool jobbers).
Spline wrenches are great but, sometimes they do more damage than good. I would stick to 6 point sockets as my main line.
Aside from the Armstrong ratchet, you would get a better deal from an SK 47 piece (or so) set from ebay or just getting the Craftsman sockets on sale with one of their new premium ratchets but, that's just me.
http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt...g_15_299_56_pc_6_pt_38__drive_socket_set.html
This set isn't on Armstrong's website because it's exclusive to ISN (the people that supply most independent tool jobbers).
Spline wrenches are great but, sometimes they do more damage than good. I would stick to 6 point sockets as my main line.
Aside from the Armstrong ratchet, you would get a better deal from an SK 47 piece (or so) set from ebay or just getting the Craftsman sockets on sale with one of their new premium ratchets but, that's just me.
http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt...g_15_299_56_pc_6_pt_38__drive_socket_set.html
not quite. Apex tool group, previously danaher, owns the Armstrong brand along with many others and also has contracts to produce some hard line tools for craftsman, including sockets. At some point, around when C-Man [Apex] changed to dual marked, they simply became the same. The chrome quality might be a bit better on the Armstrong but as far as the forging process, etching, and stamping goes they're the same. Its not so much Armstrong making the sockets for Craftsman but the parent company is. If you look at the impact sockets and some wrench lines they're also identical.
Anyway point being theres no point paying a premium for Armstrong sockets when your local sears has the same thing for less. The other thing that matters a lot to myself is warranty. I'd much prefer to deal with Sears than a Fastenal which is the only way to warranty Armstrong tools.
Anyway point being theres no point paying a premium for Armstrong sockets when your local sears has the same thing for less. The other thing that matters a lot to myself is warranty. I'd much prefer to deal with Sears than a Fastenal which is the only way to warranty Armstrong tools.
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Vinko
Well-known member
^ Do you know for a fact that Crafty and Armstrong are using the same steel for the sockets? I'd doubt it, but if you've got the facts, I'd love to hear them.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
When the sockets are the same size, same finish, and feel like the same weight in your hands, I'd say they're the same except for the font and name on the socket. I would like to think that they were better than Craftsman since you're paying more.I know when we started getting Craftsman twins from Armstrong via MSC, we switched to Craftsman sockets.
When the sockets are the same size, same finish, and feel like the same weight in your hands, I'd say they're the same except for the font and name on the socket. I would like to think that they were better than Craftsman since you're paying more.I know when we started getting Craftsman twins from Armstrong via MSC, we switched to Craftsman sockets.
i am with fedwrench. when thes mfgs. switch to a differant product say sockets or wrenches. do they dump out all of the raw materials and completely change them with differeramt stuff or do they change a small part of it like the stamping or final fit and finish? i go wth the latter. the final stage of fit and finish may have a small effect on quality but the tool is the same. especially when you are talking cman. it is common knowledge that the original cman pros were identical to the sk full polish. i believe the same could be said for later cman pros being the same as matco if i recall. the new import cman pros, who the hell knows?
4x4gearhead
Well-known member
For the money I would agree on just getting some craftsmans or something, if you want a different kind of quality in that price range get s-k, they have nicely made sockets for the money and they are bound to be back on their feet in the near future as far as warranty
I have a lot of SK stuff and am very happy with it. I actually went looking for a SK 3/8" drive set, but the only people that have them left want full retail. I don't feel like spending $300 for a 47 pcs set when you used to be able to buy that same set for $165-185 all day long. I have called just about every discount tool supplier on the net looking for them and they will say they are in-stock on their website, but they don't have them. It sounds like everyone bought up the SK stuff when they went under.
When the sockets are the same size, same finish, and feel like the same weight in your hands, I'd say they're the same except for the font and name on the socket. I would like to think that they were better than Craftsman since you're paying more.I know when we started getting Craftsman twins from Armstrong via MSC, we switched to Craftsman sockets.
When did you start receiving the dual branded Armstrong/Craftsman sockets? Have you noticed any loss in quality with the sockets or any other Armstrong tools for that matter?
I'm a bit shocked, I've always favored Armstrong for a balance of quality, customer service, and cost. I really hope that Craftsman sockets are just a great quality product now, and that this dual branding hasn't encouraged Armstrong to lower their quality standards.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Probably at least a year ago or so. It's not so much a decline in quality. It's that why pay double for Armstrong when it's a rebadged Craftsman or vice versa. I hate that double staked socket retention cuttouts they use now. The full polish long Armstrong wrenches are the same as the US made Craftsman Professional wrenches and the blue and black Armstrong screwdrivers are the same as the Craftsman Professsional screwdrivers that come in red and black. Armstrong are still good tools. I just don't think they're worth what industrial supply places charge for them. Some of their list prices are in Snap on territory.
the other problem with armstrong is their resale value is in the toilet. Makes for some good bargains but spending 300-500 [retail] for a set of whatever only to get 100-150 or so on the rebound sorta *****. And thats gently used/new stuff i've seen. It doesnt help that Apex is morphing their line into the same thing as their other brands [including what they make for C-Man] as well.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I've said this before but, I think the future of Danaher/Apex tools is the Chinese made Gearwrench line. KD mechanics hand tools are already gone. Allen is on the way out. NAPA professional hands tools are Gearwrench now. Matco is already selling Gearwrench clones to a degree. I think the only thing keeping Armstrong US made is the large Government contract they got to supply General Mechanics Tool Kits for the military. Once the contract is done, I think things will change.
drink
Well-known member
From what I understand the Craftsman sockets are made out of alloy steel.
Here is the specifications on the Armstrong 15-299 socket set. They are supposed to be made of stronger high alloy steel. Armstrong is the best product of them.
56 Pc. 3/8" Drive 6 Point SAE/Metric Standard and Deep Mechanics Tool Set
•All Tools are Made in the USA - Quality and Availability
•Durable, Long Lasting Blow Molded Case Will Not Dent, Will Not Rust, Even Under the Harshest Conditions -Two Piece Latches Securely Hold the Box Closed
•Bottom Half of the Case Can Be Removed and Placed in a Tool Storage Drawer for Organization
•EYE-D™ Markings on The Sockets Optimize Size Visibility, Also Providing SAE / Metric Differentiation - Socket Sizes are Also Marked in Blow Mold
•Ratchet has a Compact Head Design, Recessed Reversing Lever With On/Off Markings, Unique Hour Glass Handle Design, as Well as The "Torque Wrap" Design Incorporating a 10 Degree Ratcheting Arc
•Sockets Incorporate A Radius Corner Design that Engages the Flats of the Fastener as Well as a Unique Retention Method, Cold Form Ball Recess, Which Provides Consistent Secure Retention of the Socket to the Drive Tool
•Knurling on the Extension Shaft Provides a Non-Slip Grip to Quickly Run Down / Remove Fasteners
•All Tools are Manufactured From High Alloy Steel Using the Most Up-To-Date Manufacturing Process and Heat Treat for Greater Strength and Durability
•Meets Or Exceeds ASME B107.1-2002, B107.10M and US Federal Spec. GGG-W-641E
LB-1911
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Slow day there in the Confused State
ducatis' Last Activity: 08-05-2012 11:13 PM
This thread was started - 10-29-2010
Last post prior to your bump - 11-01-2010
ducatis' Last Activity: 08-05-2012 11:13 PM
This thread was started - 10-29-2010
Last post prior to your bump - 11-01-2010
bobcatdan
Well-known member
I wouldn't run out and buy Armstrong unless it's practically free. The only socket set I have is a 1/4" one that was too cheap to pass up. The sockets are 100% identical to craftsman. Add knurling to a craftsman extension, you have Armstrong. U joint, same as craftsman. The 36 tooth ratchet, while a beautiful little piece, action wise is on par with craftsman RP. I have a 1/2" breaker, same weak *** drive as craftsman. Matco used the same design, however, they redesign and now make one tough bar, maybe Armstrong followed suit. Overall my Armstrong sampling is small, but none of it excites me. I'd buy SK over Armstrong anyday.
Wow, thread from the dead!
The only thing I find particularly enticing from Armstrong are the MAXX ratchets, and maybe their XL combo wrenches. I say maybe because I don't really know if they are truly extra long.
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The only thing I find particularly enticing from Armstrong are the MAXX ratchets, and maybe their XL combo wrenches. I say maybe because I don't really know if they are truly extra long.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
drink
Well-known member
I realized the thread is very old but I just wanted to point out the differences in the Armstrong specs and Craftsman specs. Armstrong is supposed to be a premium brand of tools.
Also, I would like to compare a set of Craftsman sockets with the Armstrong set. The Craftsman set retails for about $130 plus tax, and it is currently on sale for about $90 plus tax. The Armstrong might be about $166 shipped to your door at some places.
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-49-p...0948881000P?prdNo=47&blockNo=47&blockType=G47
http://i.sears.com/s/d/pdf/mp-tc/10000595/prod_1588337512
At the moment I am thinking the Armstrong sounds like a good deal regardless of how old the thread is and whether or not the OP purchased it.
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Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
You can't compare a current Chinese made craftsman set to your Armstrong set. You have to compare a recent us made craftsman or craftsman industrial set to your Armstrong set. Doing so will illustrate that the Armstrong isn't as vastly superior as you think. Sorry, Armstrong just is not a premium brand of tools. 
Loscaldazar
Well-known member
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I doubt Armstrong and Craftsman USA sockets were made to different specs. Alloy steel and high alloy steel are such vague terms- you could use either to refer to the same batch of steel (and quite honestly, alloy steel or high alloy can refer to pretty much any steel while telling you absolutely nothing about how good that steel is). As a certain canadian tool reviewer would say, it's all marketing ****. Operations would be much more streamlined if they used the same steel between all the brands they made (Armstrong, Craftsman, Masterforce, Allen, and one or two others I bet I'm forgetting).
Dollars to doughnuts, they used the exact same steel, the exact same machines, and the exact same chrome for all their brands.
Armstrong sockets are easily one of the worst investments you can make. Wright, SK, and Proto are about the same price, and are LEAGUES better. I've said it before, but the chrome on the Craftsman USA/Armstrong sockets is the worst I have ever seen*. Even my barely used fractional sizes of Craftsman USA and Amrstrong (I had a few mixed sets) were rusting after a year, and some (it was 5 or 6 IIRC) had to be warrantied because they were near unrecognizable after 3 years (I live in MN, so lots of salt in the winter, and actually rather humid in the summer). They aren't made to last longterm.
If armstrong sockets were good, then Matco would rebrand them. And while Matco rebrands a lot of Armstrong, they actually contract outside of Apex/Danaher to get their sockets made. Not even Apex likes Armstrong's sockets?
And because someone is going to call BS just check here. "Our Industrial Products Division, NMG Industrial, located in Stow, Ohio, engineers and manufactures tools including Matco® sockets...."
*At least on the 1/4 to 1/2 drive sockets, the 3/4 drive armstrong sockets look much better and I've had no rusting issues on my most frequently used metric 3/4 drive sockets after a total of ~four years since I got them. The 3/4 drive tools seem to be chromed with a similar formulation/process as armstrong's ratchets, which I've also had no problem with rust on them- even with frequent use.
Dollars to doughnuts, they used the exact same steel, the exact same machines, and the exact same chrome for all their brands.
Armstrong sockets are easily one of the worst investments you can make. Wright, SK, and Proto are about the same price, and are LEAGUES better. I've said it before, but the chrome on the Craftsman USA/Armstrong sockets is the worst I have ever seen*. Even my barely used fractional sizes of Craftsman USA and Amrstrong (I had a few mixed sets) were rusting after a year, and some (it was 5 or 6 IIRC) had to be warrantied because they were near unrecognizable after 3 years (I live in MN, so lots of salt in the winter, and actually rather humid in the summer). They aren't made to last longterm.
If armstrong sockets were good, then Matco would rebrand them. And while Matco rebrands a lot of Armstrong, they actually contract outside of Apex/Danaher to get their sockets made. Not even Apex likes Armstrong's sockets?
And because someone is going to call BS just check here. "Our Industrial Products Division, NMG Industrial, located in Stow, Ohio, engineers and manufactures tools including Matco® sockets...."
*At least on the 1/4 to 1/2 drive sockets, the 3/4 drive armstrong sockets look much better and I've had no rusting issues on my most frequently used metric 3/4 drive sockets after a total of ~four years since I got them. The 3/4 drive tools seem to be chromed with a similar formulation/process as armstrong's ratchets, which I've also had no problem with rust on them- even with frequent use.
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drink
Well-known member
You can't compare a current Chinese made craftsman set to your Armstrong set. You have to compare a recent us made craftsman or craftsman industrial set to your Armstrong set. Doing so will illustrate that the Armstrong isn't as vastly superior as you think. Sorry, Armstrong just is not a premium brand of tools.
Will you pick a Craftsman set to compare to the Armstrong? McMaster Carr sells Armstrong socket sets as Premium sets. Here is what they say.
Premium sets are the finest tools available. All have gone through additional machining, grinding, and/or polishing for a superior fit and finish. Made in the U.S.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#5582A11
Can any of you take precision measurements of an Armstrong and Craftsman socket of equal size and tell what the differences are?
Their XL combos are just as long as every truck brand. With the modified open end I think they're some of the best combos you can buy right up there with FD+.
Holy Macro, this was written in 2010 by Fedwrench. It's 2016, and Fedwrench's prediction was right 
What's next?
What's next?
I've said this before but, I think the future of Danaher/Apex tools is the Chinese made Gearwrench line. KD mechanics hand tools are already gone. Allen is on the way out. NAPA professional hands tools are Gearwrench now. Matco is already selling Gearwrench clones to a degree. I think the only thing keeping Armstrong US made is the large Government contract they got to supply General Mechanics Tool Kits for the military. Once the contract is done, I think things will change.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
The detents tell the story. Those Craftsman detents are exclusive to their sockets. The Armstrong sockets have the same detents.
drink
Well-known member
Several months ago I snapped a few pictures of a Craftsman socket compared to an Armstrong socket. They look a lot alike. However I have not used any precision measuring tools to really tell how close the machining and/or tolerances are.
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Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
It's ok. They're your tools. If you want to view Armstrong as a premium tool brand, go ahead. That way you won't feel bad overpaying for Craftsman sockets with smaller font.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I wholeheartedly agree as long as we're talking about Armstrong's MAXX series. However, I'm not a fan of their 36 tooth ratchets but, that's just me.
drink
Well-known member
It's ok. They're your tools. If you want to view Armstrong as a premium tool brand, go ahead. That way you won't feel bad overpaying for Craftsman sockets with smaller font.
I just wanted to point out how McMaster Carr markets Armstrong tools. Can you prove the Craftsman sockets are made out of the same steel as the Armstrong sockets? The old Craftsman sockets sold back in about 1971 were advertised with the same spec as the current Armstrong sockets but the Craftsman sockets being sold nowadays are not marketed with any specs to my knowledge. It sounds like a metallurgical engineer needs to take some samples of these sockets and tell what they are both made of.
The Allen sockets I have are made pretty good and I think they are better than the Craftsman sockets made during the past 10 years.
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Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Premium and Professional are two of the most over used words in tool marketing that are never qualified
drink
Well-known member
Premium and Professional are two of the most over used words in tool marketing that are never qualified
Do you work for Proto?
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I do not work for Proto or any other tool manufacturer. Why?
drink
Well-known member
Just trying to make sure you are not the type of person who roots for whoever they work for regardless of how good the tools are. You know, if you work at Craftsman they are the best, or if you work at Proto then they are the best etc.
You have been around a while. So far I have not had any of my Craftsman sockets to break but they market Armstrong as a higher quality brand of tools. How can you prove them not to be made of high alloy steel? Craftsman's spec says alloy steel and Armstrong's spec says high alloy steel......how can you say they are made out of the same steel? High alloy steel is supposed to be stronger steel.
Loscaldazar
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I can buy "high alloy steel" sockets off eBay direct from China too. Those most be premium tools using the same steel as armstrong, no?
High alloy and alloy steel are unregulated terms that can refer to any type of steel. They're marketing terms, not scientific terms. Pretty soon we'll see someone advertising "super high alloy steel" or the like. Just because two marketing firms (Craftsman has a separate marketing firm from Armstrong/Apex) choose different terms to describe their products, doesn't make them any different. Unless they actual steel grades, or another term that has a scientific definition, there is no argument in saying a tool is better because one marketing department put the word "high" in from of alloy. And believe me, the descriptions for the tools were not written by the engineers- it was the marketing department who knows as much about tools and steel as mechanics know about nuclear powerplants.
In fact, pretty much anything the marketing department says should be ignored unless it's actually scientific and not meaningless words that make a product sound cool.
bobcatdan
Well-known member
You sound like you work for Armstrong.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Nope. My tool boxes are very diversified containing a wide variety of brands both domestic and imported, tool truck and non tool truck alike. I opt for what I like and what works for me. I honestly feel that no one brand makes the best of everything so, I use what I feel is the best in class from many brands.
drink
Well-known member
Can you show us the Chinese version of the high alloy tools you are talking about? Are you against American made products or just going after the cheapest price regardless of where it is made? Do you think false advertising would be applied if the buyer's of these products were misled while thinking they were getting the best, safest to use tool for their money?
drink
Well-known member
No, I am currently not an employee at Armstrong. I own several different brands of tools and don't understand why some people are so critical of certain brands. Personally I think the Armstrong 15-299 is a nice set of sockets and Fedwrench probably owns a set of them. You can learn a lot from him about the differences between brands.