Masonry fence/wall questions

[Zevo]

I’m planning to have a masonry wall built off of my enclosed patio to surround my hot tub (in central Oklahoma). The plan is to have the Wall in an L shape, going 3 feet off the patio and then going 20 feet until it meets a 3 feet retaining wall. The plan that I have developed with the mason is to do a standard CMU concrete block with brick overlying the block on the side that faces my hot tub.

At first, my mason wasn’t specific about the footing, but I told him that I wanted it to be 24 inches wide and at least 18 inches deep. He is fine with that. His plan is to have rebar coursing horizontally through the footing with vertical rebar coursing out of the footing into the hollow part of the block. I’m concerned because his plan is to use an electric mixer to mix bags of concrete to make the footer. By my calculations, that will be at least 110 bags of concrete needed. It worries me that he may not be able to do it quick enough to have a quality foot or poor. Maybe my fears aren’t justified. He has built a wall for a friend and she was very happy with his work.

If we were to do Ready mix that might be a little difficult or expensive. The pool build has required a pumper for everything, because it’s probably 150 to 200 feet from the street.

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[PopcornSutton]

It's doable this time of year. With plenty of help, they could mix and and start the placement at one end and continue along bringing the surface to grade as they go. Shouldn't be any cold joints. Lot of work though.

 

[geneg]

I’m planning to have a masonry wall built off of my enclosed patio to surround my hot tub (in central Oklahoma). The plan is to have the Wall in an L shape, going 3 feet off the patio and then going 20 feet until it meets a 3 feet retaining wall. The plan that I have developed with the mason is to do a standard CMU concrete block with brick overlying the block on the side that faces my hot tub.

At first, my mason wasn’t specific about the footing, but I told him that I wanted it to be 24 inches wide and at least 18 inches deep. He is fine with that. His plan is to have rebar coursing horizontally through the footing with vertical rebar coursing out of the footing into the hollow part of the block. I’m concerned because his plan is to use an electric mixer to mix bags of concrete to make the footer. By my calculations, that will be at least 110 bags of concrete needed. It worries me that he may not be able to do it quick enough to have a quality foot or poor. Maybe my fears aren’t justified. He has built a wall for a friend and she was very happy with his work.

If we were to do Ready mix that might be a little difficult or expensive. The pool build has required a pumper for everything, because it’s probably 150 to 200 feet from the street.

Any input would be appreciated.

Is the 18" the depth of the footing or the thickness? Unless your wall is extremely tall, there is no reason to pour a footing that thick. 8 to 12 inches is customary with the top elevation below the frost line. Then run the block up from there.

23' wall length x 24" width x 12" thick footing = 46 cf or 1.7 cyds. Earth formed footing 50 bags should do it. 2 or 3 guys & a wheelbarrel & shovels.

If you have concerns about a single pour, just bulkhead it off into 2 halves & make two pours. Run the horizontal rebar thru the bulkhead form to tie the pours together. Also, make sure he fills the cores of the block with the vert. rebar. with concrete, not leftover mortar.

 

[Zevo]

Is the 18" the depth of the footing or the thickness? Unless your wall is extremely tall, there is no reason to pour a footing that thick. 8 to 12 inches is customary with the top elevation below the frost line. Then run the block up from there.

23' wall length x 24" width x 12" thick footing = 46 cf or 1.7 cyds. Earth formed footing 50 bags should do it. 2 or 3 guys & a wheelbarrel & shovels.

If you have concerns about a single pour, just bulkhead it off into 2 halves & make two pours. Run the horizontal rebar thru the bulkhead form to tie the pours together. Also, make sure he fills the cores of the block with the vert. rebar. with concrete, not leftover mortar.

The 18 inch depth was a frost line number and what he was planning. The fence is to be 6 foot tall, so tall, but not unusually so. I may be worrying too much, but I want it to be really solid. We get some really strong winds with storm in Oklahoma. I told him that I basically want it to be built like a tank and that I was fine with him increasing the price, which he did.

 

[dscheidt]

I expect he knows what he’s doing. Assuming he’s using a biggish portable machine that can dump where he wants it, and has help to keep it fed, that’s a doable job. Lots of work, but so is ******* block.

 

[Junkman]

Will this wall have any dirt butting up against it? If so, you must provide drainage to move the water away from the wall or the frost will knock it down. My neighbor made this mistake even though I warned him. A few years later, the way was leaning so badly that the town made him remove it. It was then poured using a form and drainage system, and no further problems occurred.

 

[txvwnut]

If he shows up with one of these, https://mudmixer.com/, then he's good to go. If he comes with a barrel mixer he'll be in for one hell of a workout and about two days worth of work. If he does show up with a barrel mixer see if you can rent a mudmixer for him.

 

[Zevo]

If he shows up with one of these, https://mudmixer.com/, then he's good to go. If he comes with a barrel mixer he'll be in for one hell of a workout and about two days worth of work. If he does show up with a barrel mixer see if you can rent a mudmixer for him.

I think he uses a barrel mixer, but that's because he had one in his truck and in the pictures he showed me of his work. I want to trust him, but I've had good and not so good experiences with getting projects done

 

[Zevo]

I just checked and I can rent a mudmixer for 90 a day. I'd gladly rent it for him if it helps

 

[geneg]

The 18 inch depth was a frost line number and what he was planning. The fence is to be 6 foot tall, so tall, but not unusually so. I may be worrying too much, but I want it to be really solid. We get some really strong winds with storm in Oklahoma. I told him that I basically want it to be built like a tank and that I was fine with him increasing the price, which he did.

24" width does more to resist wind than excessive footing thickness You could also pour the top of footing 24" deep. Adds another course of block or so, but cheaper & easier than poured concrete. Also, make sure that backfill is correct material & properly compacted.

Have him add some durawall (ladder type horizontal reinforcement) every 3rd or 4th course. It & the filled reinforced cores as well as your corner should provide more than adequate wind load resistance. The vert rebar should extend to the top course of masonry! Ultimately, you could have hime use a bond beam for the top course. (U shaped blocks with rebar & concrete fill).

 

[dscheidt]

I just checked and I can rent a mudmixer for 90 a day. I'd gladly rent it for him if it helps

Talk to him. Some of the people around here seem to be afraid of work. A mud mixer isn't faster than a good big barrel mixer, it's just less work.

 

[Zevo]

I'll talk to him and make sure he's up to it. I don't want to insult him, but I don't want to have him get in over his head. Honestly, if 90 dollars makes his life easier then I'll pay it. I less tired worker is probably a better worker.

 

[geneg]

I'll talk to him and make sure he's up to it. I don't want to insult him, but I don't want to have him get in over his head. Honestly, if 90 dollars makes his life easier then I'll pay it. I less tired worker is probably a better worker.

And, you'll get a better finished product. Less than $100 contributed by you for his benefit makes it a team effort.

 

[txvwnut]

A mud mixer isn't faster than a good big barrel mixer, it's just less work.

I'm going to call BS on your statement. A Mudmixer will run the amount of bags the OP listed in about two hours whereas a barrel mixer will be an all day job. I know as I own both a Mudmixer and a barrel mixer, well used to own a barrel mixer I gave it away after I got the Mudmixer.

 

[dscheidt]

I'm going to call BS on your statement. A Mudmixer will run the amount of bags the OP listed in about two hours whereas a barrel mixer will be an all day job. I know as I own both a Mudmixer and a barrel mixer, well used to own a barrel mixer I gave it away after I got the Mudmixer.

How big was your barrel? They come in a range of sizes, and the big ones will run circles around a mudmixer. Mud mixer claims 45 bags an hour, I've been the labor feeding a big -- 10 bag batch -- electric barrel mixer, and that was a leisurely pace for it.

 

[PopcornSutton]

Everyone has their opinion. To the OP, a 12" deep footing is plenty, 24" wide is standard.

 

[KenC]

I vote for a footing 8" thick with it's bottom no higher than 18" and 24" wide. Reducing the thickness provides plenty of strength and greatly reduces the workload. Add a block course to get above ground level. Tipping resistance is mostly provided by the width. Bond beam on the top course and Rebar ties it all together.

 

[Zevo]

How much rebar should I ask for? He didn't give specifics and I didn't ask. I was assuming he knew what to do. He just said horizontal in the footing and vertical coming up into the block which sounded reasonable to me. Putting in the rebar is probably the easiest part of the job

 

[NUTTSGT]

If it were mine, I would bring in a ready mix truck, pour footer as a thickened edge for the slab for the hot tub to sit on.

 

[bluedog225]

I just checked and I can rent a mudmixer for 90 a day. I'd gladly rent it for him if it helps

Dang that’s cheap. Have a backup barrel mixer.

 

[doctordirt]

Footing width should be twice what is on top. 8 inch block plus 4 inch face brick is 12 inches, footing should be 24 inches wide

 

[Zevo]

If it were mine, I would bring in a ready mix truck, pour footer as a thickened edge for the slab for the hot tub to sit on.

The hot tub is actually a gunite hot tub being done as part of a pool build. The pool and spa are almost done. They’re getting ready to pour some decking around the pool and will have a pumper to bring the concrete to the backyard. I wish i could have the wall footer done at that time, but I think the wall will have to wait until after the pool is done, due to the fact that it will limit access for the pool workers.