Garage Door LVL Header Size

[charlesmann]

LONG POST, trying to provide as much detailed info as possible.
Building a 40x50 shop with 2 commercial garage doors, 1 10x10 and 1 12x14 on the side wall.
I looked in the up codes and ibc online, but couldnt find anything dealing with post frame construction.

Will be a post frame build, using actual/true dimensional lumber, 6x6 posts, 2x6 girts and 2x8 purlins that iv milled myself out of syp, with metal trusses engineered for 10’ OC.
Will be a 6” (5 1/2”) slab, 12x12 beans/footings, except where the garage doors will be, which is a 12x18 beam/footing with 19 18”x48” pier holes under each post, posts secured to concrete using wet set and drill set post brackets, so NO posts going in the ground.

Will alternate using 10’ and 20’ 2x6 girts, 2x8 purlins so i dont have all my girt and purlin splices lined up together and will install double 2x6 top plates on all 4 walls to lock the tops of the posts in.
Interior wall framing will only go up 8’, so half the height of the structure to the eave.

The 12x14 comm door will be where a truss needs to be installed, SO, a load bearing wall, as the other 50’ wall, with only 2-3 window openings.

I plan to install 2 2x12x20’ girts stacked atop of each other and was thinking 2 “2x12”x20’ ( 1 3/4”x 11 7/8”) lvls stacked atop each other and notching out the 4 6x6 posts to allow the lvls to sit flush to allow the truss to sit flush as if it was attached to a post, and boxing in between the 2x12 girts and the lvls with a 2x4 (2x4 1/4”), basically 4 2x4s, then the double stack of 2x6s.
I know all that will be heavy, but have a crane, so it’ll be doing the heavy lifting.

Attached is a rough-in drawing in pdf. 2 red “dots” represents where a truss will be needed.

Looking for recommendations if the double stack 2x12s and lvls will be plenty of support.

 

[The Metric System]

Attached is a rough-in drawing in pdf. 2 red “dots” represents where a truss will be needed.

FYI, the attached file is an Uber receipt.

 

[charlesmann]

FYI, the attached file is an Uber receipt.

Thanks. I cant even figure out how to edit, using my phone.

 

[charlesmann]

Thanks. I cant even figure out how to edit, using my phone.

Nvr mind, had one of my mechs start pushing tabs. Got it edited.

 

[charlesmann]

So aint none of y’all got any recommendations?

 

[billconner]

I apologize if you original post answered these but I had trouble finding.

Are the steel trusses just at posts or are there headers between posts carrying the trusses?

Are the overhead doors in gable walls or side walls carrying trusses?

I'm just trying to understand the loads on the header above the overhead doors.

PS - sorry - missed it previously

 

[charlesmann]

I apologize if you original post answered these but I had trouble finding.

Are the steel trusses just at posts or are there headers between posts carrying the trusses?

Are the overhead doors in gable walls or side walls carrying trusses?

I'm just trying to understand the loads on the header above the overhead doors.

PS - sorry - missed it previously

Side wall. Posts are 10’ oc, so the 12’ door will have a truss about center of it. The rest will be sitting on the posts. Both garage doors will be getting a 2x12 header in place of the 2x6 girts 24” oc.

With the 12’ door carrying a truss and roof load, i was planning on 1 “2x12” lvl and 1 2x12 syp header on the outside, or 2 syp exterior headers/girts. But since i need to secure the truss, thinking of spanning an lvl on the inside, securing to 4 posts, as pictured in the attached file, then cut the lvl where the truss tail (A3, vertical end plate on the truss file) would secure to a post, and either put a short 6x6 between the interior and exterior lvls/headers, or get a 12’ lvl to fit between posts and bolt/screw the interior lvl to the filler lvl and use 12” grk style screw to secure the filler lvl to the garage door posts. If i didnt cut the interior lvl/headers, id have to cut the truss and move a3 the thickness of the lvl/2x12s then reweld.
Since these are engineered trusses i really dont want to go cutting and rewelding on them.

I hope what im saying is understandable.
When i get to work tonight, i can draw it up for better clarification.
I know what im saying/seeing in my head, but i have a hard time relaying that for others to understand.

 

[The Metric System]

It is not clear to me what you are asking, and I think it's unlikely that anybody here is going to be able to give you a reliable answer to your question. This is the sort of thing that would normally be addressed by a structural engineer who is familiar with your local codes and has access to all the relevant drawings.

Do you have design documents for the building? If so, just do the thing it says on the documents. I absolutely would not modify stamped engineered trusses.

FWIW, my shop has 2x 20' x 8' garage doors. This span is handled by 3x 14" tall LVL beams with a total thickness of 5.25". This stack of beams is topped with dimensional lumber and our engineered trusses (wood in my case) are simply toenailed and hurricane tied into the dimensional lumber.

 

[charlesmann]

It is not clear to me what you are asking, and I think it's unlikely that anybody here is going to be able to give you a reliable answer to your question. This is the sort of thing that would normally be addressed by a structural engineer who is familiar with your local codes and has access to all the relevant drawings.

Do you have design documents for the building? If so, just do the thing it says on the documents. I absolutely would not modify stamped engineered trusses.

FWIW, my shop has 2x 20' x 8' garage doors. This span is handled by 3x 14" tall LVL beams with a total thickness of 5.25". This stack of beams is topped with dimensional lumber and our engineered trusses (wood in my case) are simply toenailed and hurricane tied into the dimensional lumber.

If i had engineered drawings/plans, i wouldnt be asking for thoughts/ideas. I can over engineer it, but if i dont have to, why spend the time and money.
If i understand what you are saying with your’s, you took 3 lvls, sandwiched them together to create a 5 1/4” thick header beam.
I need 20” tall/high headers to provide a place to secure the truss.

 

[cgrutt]

Not an engineer so take this for what its worth random thoughts on the Interwebz...

1. Can they make a truss to size needed to replace and/or supplement header over door?

2. 2x12 (by 2 or 3) traditional header over door and large timber frame girt (for example 6x8) above header for needed truss support. Appropriate steel connectors to tie girt into posts.

ETA or use steel I-beam above header instead of timber frame girt.

3. Can you reposition doorway and/or posts so that trusses sit closer to beams and tie diagonal framing members from post to truss? 12' door should be able to position within 1 ft of trusses on 10' centers, no?

4. Relocate large door to gable end and run all trusses directly to posts.

Just some thoughts no idea if they will work. Good luck.

 

[The Metric System]

If i had engineered drawings/plans, i wouldnt be asking for thoughts/ideas. I can over engineer it, but if i dont have to, why spend the time and money.

How are you building a 40' x 50' structure without complete/approved plans? I mean this both administratively and at a practical level.

For example, how did you know what trusses to order if you don't know how/where they will be placed?

Are you building a building without prints?

If i understand what you are saying with your’s, you took 3 lvls, sandwiched them together to create a 5 1/4” thick header beam.
I need 20” tall/high headers to provide a place to secure the truss.

That is correct, we stacked 3 14" LVLs horizontally to make (effectively) one beam that was 14" tall x 5.25" thick x ~22' long. This beam spans the garage door opening and bears the truss/roof load.

Like you, we also needed the truss mounting point on the wall to be higher than the top of the LVL. We simply made up this vertical distance with flat-stacked 2x6 lumber; since it's just bearing compressive load and not functioning as a beam we were able to use short/cheap lengths no problem.

I should note that this was all verified by a licensed engineer and approved by the local building authority to ensure that it met code and was going to be suitable for the loads involved.

Importantly, I have no idea whether this approach will be compliant with your local requirements or able to bear the loads associated with your specific building.

 

[billconner]

Charles-your posts read like you're speaking really fast and I'm slow. I think I would calculate the reaction (load) of the truss that sits on top of center of 12' door and take that to lumberyard and have them size the LVL. Since LVLs are not all the same, it's just guessing with sizes. And for simplicity, I'd look at hangers for that LVL and hang it between the posts. If there was room between posts I'd use Jack studs (Jack post?) but I'm sensing there isn't room. And indeed, this is probably the most stressed connection in the building. I don't trust connections or don't like at all the idea of bolting headers to sides of a post. I believe (and have read) headers carrying trusses in post frame buildings connected this way are a common failure point.

Not asking if you agree but only if it's clear?

 

[charlesmann]

Not an engineer so take this for what its worth random thoughts on the Interwebz...

1. Can they make a truss to size needed to replace and/or supplement header over door?

2. 2x12 (by 2 or 3) traditional header over door and large timber frame girt (for example 6x8) above header for needed truss support. Appropriate steel connectors to tie girt into posts.

ETA or use steel I-beam above header instead of timber frame girt.

3. Can you reposition doorway and/or posts so that trusses sit closer to beams and tie diagonal framing members from post to truss? 12' door should be able to position within 1 ft of trusses on 10' centers, no?

4. Relocate large door to gable end and run all trusses directly to posts.

Just some thoughts no idea if they will work. Good luck.

Yes, the trusses could have been made shorter, but when i ordered them (iv had them already for 6 months) i wasnt planning a 12’ wide door.

For idea 2., that is already what im talking about doing and asking about. Using 2x12s for the ext girts and creating a door header at the same time.
The int is the issue because of the 20” vertical securement to post tail/web or whatever the truss file calls it.

I really wish i could put the door on the end wall, but location of building, id have to blindside back my 35’ gooseneck and there is barely enough room get backed in, let alone, trying to do a pull up for a straight line back.
Relocating the door is possible to accommodate for truss spacing but id either be hugging the end wall or hugging my elec sub panels. The trusses are engineered for up to 12’ oc, but the shop would need to be widened another 10’, which then would encroach on the powelines and having the rqrd setback from them.
An ibeam could be used, but the 20” vertical tail that needs to be fastened to a post or steel column is still there. Again, these are engineered and certified, so im not modifying them, except for a few of the purlin brackets that got damaged.

If my pond wasnt there, room wouldnt be an issue and at the time of breaking ground, i was keeping the pond to use a log pond till i could get the trees on my sawmill.
But now, screw the pond, it’ll get filled in, but a yr late and many 1000s of $$$$ in fill dirt short.
The shop and house are self financed and build as i go.

 

[captaindiode]

I would think the LVL manufacturer would be able to provide the correct size. Just like ordering trusses. Ask at the lumber yard. When I needed one to open up the back of house, the supplier sent out an engineer at no extra cost to size the beam.

 

[charlesmann]

How are you building a 40' x 50' structure without complete/approved plans? I mean this both administratively and at a practical level.

For example, how did you know what trusses to order if you don't know how/where they will be placed?

Are you building a building without prints?


That is correct, we stacked 3 14" LVLs horizontally to make (effectively) one beam that was 14" tall x 5.25" thick x ~22' long. This beam spans the garage door opening and bears the truss/roof load.

Like you, we also needed the truss mounting point on the wall to be higher than the top of the LVL. We simply made up this vertical distance with flat-stacked 2x6 lumber; since it's just bearing compressive load and not functioning as a beam we were able to use short/cheap lengths no problem.

I should note that this was all verified by a licensed engineer and approved by the local building authority to ensure that it met code and was going to be suitable for the loads involved.

Importantly, I have no idea whether this approach will be compliant with your local requirements or able to bear the loads associated with your specific building.

That is kind of what im thinking/inquiring about.
My posts will be true 6x6s.
I could sandwich enough to create a solid header beam to fit between the 2 12’ door posts, secure the beam to the ext girts that would span 20’. It would allow the truss to be secured to the beam.
The inner lvls would span the same as the ext girts, 20’, but would have to be cut or use 2 10’ lvls and secure them to the 4 posts (1 corner post, 2 door support posts and 1 wall post. I only need enough room to get the truss vertical securement tail between the int lvls with 1/2” on either side for misalignment.

I think you and i are on the same page, saying the same thing.
But where you only used/needed 14”, i need 20”. Actually, i think its 20 5/8”.

 

[charlesmann]

I would think the LVL manufacturer would be able to provide the correct size. Just like ordering trusses. Ask at the lumber yard. When I needed one to open up the back of house, the supplier sent out an engineer at no extra cost to size the beam.

I planned on talking to mc coys building supply or another local building supply once i get closer to needing them. Hm dpot sells lvls, but id trust a fish before trusting them.
I was hopping to already have the slab poured, but weather and my 14/14 work schedule have put the slab pour behind about 4 months.
I planned to build everything on the slab, assemble the walls and have the ext sheathing on them, then stand the walls up. Building all on the “ground” would make it easier than building in the vertical position, esp by myself.