Mid-rise Scissor Lift Installation Questions - (Hydraulic hose extension) Advice Needed

[newpain01]

Hey everyone!

I had another thread on this forum with questions trying to make a decision what kind of car lift to get for my 2 car residential garage. (link here).

And now that I finally purchased and received the lift, I have a bunch of questions about it.

First, about the unit. I got a Katool X-90E 220V unit. I chose the 220V unit because I have an outlet ready, lower amps and hopefully a stronger pump?

I really feel stoked that I have this half a ton of steel sitting in garage right now, but I have not tried to connect it or use it yet.

The reason is that on the side where the hydraulic hoses are coming out, I have a bunch of tool cabinets stacked up to the wall and do not have space to put that pump/head unit. The factory hydraulic hose that this lift comes with is way too short to permanently install it anywhere in my garage.

I have contacted the manufacturer asking for advice about the type of hose to use for an extension and they replied that they don't recommend extending the hose because they don't know how the lift is going to work with a longer hose. They don't know if that will affect the functionality of the lift due to a pressure drop or a possible strain on the motor. Which tells me that extending the hose might work just fine. I've seen a lot of people extending hoses on the MaxJax lifts, so I am assuming this should be similar?

So the main question is, Can I extend the original hose and if I can, by how much?

My head unit is set at a spot next to my garage entrance and if I run the hose from there under my tool cabinets and into the lift it's around 16ft-18ft. Is that too long? If that is ok, what kind of couplers should I be looking at? I cannot figure out the size and threads on these?

Another option would be to install quick disconnects, wheel the pump cabinet next to the lift, lift a car and set it on the locks, then disconnect and move away. I cannot permanently leave the pump cabinet around the lift due to space constraints, it's just blocking my drawers.

If you have extended the hose from the pump to the lift on one of these units, please let me know. I am also trying to figure out what type of connectors they use as it doesn't seem to be standard?

Photos attached and I really appreciate anyone's input!

 

[AC-WC]

My C7000 2 post has the quick disconnects at the base of each column and the pump. I have tried to disconnect them in the past but struggled to get them reconnected AND then I have to cycle the lift several times to get the posts synced to each other. It's probably me but it's such a hassle.

With your lift it may not be a hassle since you're not syncing 2 cylinders.
Lots of people add hose with no issues after they purge/sync. Several youtubes out there with additional hose length.
In theory once you get the hoses filled with fluid it shouldn't matter how long they are. Farmers do it all the time on their implement to tractor hydraulics.

 

[kngelv]

It would help if you posted photos of your entire garage, where you would like to put the controls and where the connection point is on the lift.

James

 

[ericm]

There is resistance on the fluid from running in the hose. Longer hoses have more resistance. You can find calculators on line. It's probably so small that it won't be noticed. Maybe the lift will take a bit longer to raise or lower. I would not hesitate to extend the hoses if it were me.

DiscountHydraulicHose.com has a thread guide. The hose size and construction (1 wire vs 2 wire, PSI rating) should be printed on the outside of the hose. Use the same type and size for your extension. I recommend using JIC fittings instead of NPT where you can. NPT can leak especially if you reconnect them a few times. Where you use NPT, I recommend LocTite 545. It works much better than teflon tape or dope and theres no risk of getting it in the system like there is with tape.

 

[txvwnut]

For the distance you want to go I would step up to the next size larger hose and use quick disconnects on the hose ends. If that is an import made lift it could possibly have metric fittings on it. Pull a fitting and take it to your local hydraulic hose shop and they should be able to match it up or come up with a way to adapt to thread of your liking.

 

[newpain01]

Lots of people add hose with no issues after they purge/sync.

Thanks for the info! Are you saying I should connect it with the original hose, fill it up, purge and then disconnect and attach the extension hose? I did not want to connect it or fill it up yet because I imagine a lot of that hydraulic fluid will leak out if I disconnect the hoses later.

It would help if you posted photos of your entire garage, where you would like to put the controls and where the connection point is on the lift.

James

Will do, need to clean up a little and I can take photos showing where I would route the hose and wires.

There is resistance on the fluid from running in the hose. Longer hoses have more resistance. You can find calculators on line. It's probably so small that it won't be noticed. Maybe the lift will take a bit longer to raise or lower. I would not hesitate to extend the hoses if it were me.

DiscountHydraulicHose.com has a thread guide. The hose size and construction (1 wire vs 2 wire, PSI rating) should be printed on the outside of the hose. Use the same type and size for your extension. I recommend using JIC fittings instead of NPT where you can. NPT can leak especially if you reconnect them a few times. Where you use NPT, I recommend LocTite 545. It works much better than teflon tape or dope and theres no risk of getting it in the system like there is with tape.

Thanks for the advice!
My hose is wrapped in a metal spring and I cannot read much on the outside other than some numbers at the end of the hose (photos below. I think the fittings on this lift are JIT, should I put loctite on these as well?

For the distance you want to go I would step up to the next size larger hose and use quick disconnects on the hose ends. If that is an import made lift it could possibly have metric fittings on it. Pull a fitting and take it to your local hydraulic hose shop and they should be able to match it up or come up with a way to adapt to thread of your liking.

Just wondering why quick disconnects if I am installing everything permanently with an extension hose?
It's an import made lift, yes and you are right, I believe the fittings on the hoses are metric. I measured the OD on the hose and it's 15mm which is slightly over 1/2". I have no idea what the ID is, but I am assuming it's around 1/4". So if I step up to the next size larger hose that would be 3/8" ID I guess?
I found a local Pirtek store which seems to be dealing with hydraulic hoses, so I'll give them a call tomorrow to see if they have something.

 

[ericm]

No LokTite on JIC fittings. They don't even need to be that tight, unlike NPT where you have to tighten the snot out of them to get them to seal. The OD can differ for the same ID depending on the hose constuction. A good hydraulic shop will be able to make extension hoses for you.

 

[AC-WC]

Thanks for the info! Are you saying I should connect it with the original hose, fill it up, purge and then disconnect and attach the extension hose? I did not want to connect it or fill it up yet because I imagine a lot of that hydraulic fluid will leak out if I disconnect the hoses later.


Will do, need to clean up a little and I can take photos showing where I would route the hose and wires.


Thanks for the advice!
My hose is wrapped in a metal spring and I cannot read much on the outside other than some numbers at the end of the hose (photos below. I think the fittings on this lift are JIT, should I put loctite on these as well?

View attachment 2472782

Just wondering why quick disconnects if I am installing everything permanently with an extension hose?
It's an import made lift, yes and you are right, I believe the fittings on the hoses are metric. I measured the OD on the hose and it's 15mm which is slightly over 1/2". I have no idea what the ID is, but I am assuming it's around 1/4". So if I step up to the next size larger hose that would be 3/8" ID I guess?
I found a local Pirtek store which seems to be dealing with hydraulic hoses, so I'll give them a call tomorrow to see if they have something.

Quick disconnects 'self seal' when you disconnect them. Think along the lines of air tool connectors. The fluid stays inside and other than what little fluid seeps from the initial connection it won't leak out. I would have a rag available to remove any dribbles.

 

[newpain01]

Quick disconnects 'self seal' when you disconnect them. Think along the lines of air tool connectors. The fluid stays inside and other than what little fluid seeps from the initial connection it won't leak out. I would have a rag available to remove any dribbles.

Yeah, I know how they work but I do not have them now. I was just thinking to buy an extension hose that threads into my current hose and connect everything permanently, fill up with hydraulic fluid and purge.

I mentioned quick disconnects in my first thread as a second option if I cannot extend the hose, that way I can wheel the head unit close to the lift, connect the original hose (with quick disconnects), raise the lift, disconnect and move the unit away. But if I am extending the hose everything will be routed under my tool cabinets and installed permanently, I don't see a reason for quick disconnects in that case.

 

[ericm]

You may not be able to disconnect or reconnect quick connects when the system is under pressure. The ones I have on my tractors are like that. They also leak oil when connected or disconnected. These are "ag" connectors (ISO5675). You might want quick connects anyhow in case you need to move the system or lines, even if you don't use them in normal operation.

 

[AC-WC]

Here's a thought...instead of hose line extension, steel lines???

 

[txvwnut]

Just wondering why quick disconnects if I am installing everything permanently with an extension hose?
It's an import made lift, yes and you are right, I believe the fittings on the hoses are metric. I measured the OD on the hose and it's 15mm which is slightly over 1/2". I have no idea what the ID is, but I am assuming it's around 1/4". So if I step up to the next size larger hose that would be 3/8" ID I guess?
I found a local Pirtek store which seems to be dealing with hydraulic hoses, so I'll give them a call tomorrow to see if they have something.

The reason I suggest QD's is you may want/need to move the lift in the future or if you need to roll something heavy around a QD is much faster and cleaner than having to disconnect a hard plumbed hose or line. The thing to remember is to bump the release valve to release any pressure before disconnecting the hose.

 

[newpain01]

You may not be able to disconnect or reconnect quick connects when the system is under pressure. The ones I have on my tractors are like that. They also leak oil when connected or disconnected. These are "ag" connectors (ISO5675). You might want quick connects anyhow in case you need to move the system or lines, even if you don't use them in normal operation.

The reason I suggest QD's is you may want/need to move the lift in the future or if you need to roll something heavy around a QD is much faster and cleaner than having to disconnect a hard plumbed hose or line. The thing to remember is to bump the release valve to release any pressure before disconnecting the hose.

Yeah, I thought about that some more and you guys are right about having a QD at the lift.
As this is a scissor lift, it's recommended to have the engine side of the car at the front of the lift. If I want to lift a car in reverse, I have to rotate the lift and a QD will be very helpful in that case.
Like for example now I need to work on the rear suspension on one of my cars, so it's a good case to rotate the lift and back up the car because that way I will have it close to the workbench, toolbox, more lights and close to the heater. It's not that big of deal though.

I think most of the time I will be too lazy to rotate the lift and it will just sit in place because it's very heavy and even with those wheels it's hard to move, but nonetheless a QD will be nice so I don't make a mess next time I need to disconnect it.

How can I figure out the threads on the current coupling to buy a QD?

Here's a thought...instead of hose line extension, steel lines???

That's not a bad idea. Any suggestions where to find some?

 

[AC-WC]

I would check with your local Pirtek store 1st. Mainly because if they can match up the fittings to your current ones it will make it that much easier. They would use steel lines instead of rubber.
Regardless of which route you go I would recommend some kind of cover over the lines where they cross your walk path. So you don't trip or crush/damage the lines. Just like you would do for an extension cord.
Other places would be McMaster Carr, hoseandfittings.com, industrialtube.com.

 

[newpain01]

I would check with your local Pirtek store 1st. Mainly because if they can match up the fittings to your current ones it will make it that much easier. They would use steel lines instead of rubber.
Regardless of which route you go I would recommend some kind of cover over the lines where they cross your walk path. So you don't trip or crush/damage the lines. Just like you would do for an extension cord.
Other places would be McMaster Carr, hoseandfittings.com, industrialtube.com.

Thanks!
I've been thinking about how to cover the lines as well and will definitely do that. There are also a few wires that will go along the hose and I don't want to drill into the concrete for that cover. I've seen some plastic channels probably on amazon such as the one below, but I will need something wider that can fit the coupling.

 

[AC-WC]

That or some angle iron or c channel? I need to do something different to cover my hose lines. I might make some wood ones from 2x and then a steel plate over the top? Currently using 2x on each side of the hoses so the tires don't damage them when I drive over.

 

[ericm]

How can I figure out the threads on the current coupling to buy a QD?

https://www.discounthydraulichose.com/v/vspfiles/downloadables/thread_guide.pdf

At least in the small ag equipment world, NPT and JIC are most common. Sometimes there's metric or BSP.

 

[newpain01]

So, I went to the Pirtek store and they couldn't find a fitting that matches my hose. They said the hose coupling was metric, but the other side that connects to the hose was JIC. They suggested I check with adaptall.com but I still don't know what to order. I measured the threads on the coupling and they are 14mm and using a thread pitch gauge I see it's 1.5, so it might be M14x1.5.

They wanted $400 for a 20ft 8000psi hose and couplings

On discount hydraulic hose, a 10 000psi 20ft hose with JIC fittings would cost me $85 before shipping, but I still need to figure out how to match these fittings I have.

 

[AC-WC]

OK-that's just robbery from Pirtek. You might get stuck ordering several fittings to try and find the right one. I did a quick search and Adaptall has 12 distributors within 20 minutes of me. Is there a tractor shop near you or a Parker Gates affiliate? That's my next guess.

 

[newpain01]

OK-that's just robbery from Pirtek. You might get stuck ordering several fittings to try and find the right one. I did a quick search and Adaptall has 12 distributors within 20 minutes of me. Is there a tractor shop near you or a Parker Gates affiliate? That's my next guess.

Thank you for confirming, it really felt like a rip off. I was shocked at the price honestly. And then people ask "Why don't you support local businesses?" lol
I do not have any other local hydraulic store around.

I do have Tractor Supply stores around and that was the first place I went, but they didn't have anything suitable in stock.

I just went to Home Depot tonight and tried to match the hose end to some of the brass fittings they have and found some that match the threads but are not flared (the inside of the female end on my hose is flared) pictures below (the circled part in red fits the female hose threads).

So I'm honestly confused about the threads on this hose. Pirtek said the threads on the hose are metric but these home depot fittings are definitely not metric. It looks like the threads on the hose are 1/4" MIP, am I right? The only problem is, I cannot find a 1/4 MIP fitting that is flared.

I do not know what Parker Gates is, unfortunately. Tried searching and nothing comes up in my area. I am in Eastern NC close to Raleigh.

 

[AC-WC]

In your lift owner manual or maybe a contents list they might list the components and state the size of the fittings??
Parker Gates is a fittings manufacturer. Used to be Parker Hannifin. TSC can be hit or miss. HD/Lowes won't have it, too much of a specialty item.
Try the Adaptall website, you might have to call them. There's several distributors in the Raleigh area that may be able to assist.

Raleigh-that's karma-mom's family lived near Chapel Hill but most of them have moved or died. Had some flights out of there last year for work.

 

[newpain01]

In your lift owner manual or maybe a contents list they might list the components and state the size of the fittings??
Parker Gates is a fittings manufacturer. Used to be Parker Hannifin. TSC can be hit or miss. HD/Lowes won't have it, too much of a specialty item.
Try the Adaptall website, you might have to call them. There's several distributors in the Raleigh area that may be able to assist.

Raleigh-that's karma-mom's family lived near Chapel Hill but most of them have moved or died. Had some flights out of there last year for work.

The manual was the first thing I checked but it's just basic info, nothing specific and no fitting size.
I'll give Adaptall a call tomorrow and see if they have anything.

Which distributors in the Raleigh area?
Earlier today I searched for local hydraulic shops and found Pirtek, Grainger, Hydraulic Supply, Force Flex Hose & Hydraulics Company.
Some of them are a bit far but I'll give them a call tomorrow to duble check. I am afraid most of them will want to see my hose before they can decide if they make a hose for me or not.
I am pretty happy going with discount hydraulic hose if I can figure out the fittings though.

If you ever come to the area, hit me up for a beer!

Thank you for your assistance, really appreciated!

 

[ericm]

Good thread gauges in SAE and Metric would be a big help. I'm surprised the one hydraulic store couldn't help and had insane prices. TSC is going to have tractor stuff only, and not a good selection of that.

Usually for ag stuff I'm using 3000 psi hose as the tractor systems relief valves are around 2500.

So far I have had good results getting hoses made at a local chain of hydraulic fittings stores back in California, and a logging supply store here in Oregon. I found that one by asking in a local forum on Reddit.

 

[newpain01]

I do have a set of SAE and Metric thread gauges and I measured the fitting to be an M14x1.5, Pirtek couldn't even do that. They did say that the fitting and the female hose coupler are different threads but "somehow" they fit each-other.

From all that, so far I got this. The male end (a Tee coupler is M14x1.5). The female end (hose) is 1/4" MIP (based on the home depot fitting that threads in perfectly).

 

[dura eagle]

Check out these guys. Looks like they have everything hydraulic and good prices too. Never ordered anything from them before but when I need something I will. https://www.onehydraulics.com/

 

[AC-WC]

The manual was the first thing I checked but it's just basic info, nothing specific and no fitting size.
I'll give Adaptall a call tomorrow and see if they have anything.

Which distributors in the Raleigh area?
Earlier today I searched for local hydraulic shops and found Pirtek, Grainger, Hydraulic Supply, Force Flex Hose & Hydraulics Company.
Some of them are a bit far but I'll give them a call tomorrow to duble check. I am afraid most of them will want to see my hose before they can decide if they make a hose for me or not.
I am pretty happy going with discount hydraulic hose if I can figure out the fittings though.

If you ever come to the area, hit me up for a beer!

Thank you for your assistance, really appreciated!

Grainger will be a pig in a poke, depends on the local store. Most of them around here only deal with industrial sales not homeowner stuff. Call the other places you listed and explain the situation and see if they can assist vs driving to each one and asking.
Did you check the Adaptall site? They showed pictures of the end fittings and you can at least get an idea. You're on the right track with the thread gauges.

 

[ericm]

If I don't get them custom made locally I usually order hoses from discounthydraulichose and fittings from surpluscenter.

 

[newpain01]

Check out these guys. Looks like they have everything hydraulic and good prices too. Never ordered anything from them before but when I need something I will. https://www.onehydraulics.com/

Thanks, I'll check them out.

Grainger will be a pig in a poke, depends on the local store. Most of them around here only deal with industrial sales not homeowner stuff. Call the other places you listed and explain the situation and see if they can assist vs driving to each one and asking.
Did you check the Adaptall site? They showed pictures of the end fittings and you can at least get an idea. You're on the right track with the thread gauges.

I'll give them a call today and see what they say.
I checked the Adaptall site and they have a lot of fittings but the one I need is a bit tricky, it needs to be metric on one side (my original hose side) and JIC on another. The other option would be to discard my original hose (10ft) and buy a single longer hose that will go from the pump to the lift directly, but then I need to figure out the fitting on the pump and will need an angled fitting there.

If I don't get them custom made locally I usually order hoses from discounthydraulichose and fittings from surpluscenter.

Do you crimp it yourself?
Yeah, I was thinking to get a custom made hose from discounthydraulichose, but need to figure out the correct fittings first.

 

[ericm]

Do you crimp it yourself?

No, the equipment costs too much for the amount of hoses I need. I buy hoses with JIC ends and then use adapters to get to what ever else I need. The JIC hoses cost only a tiny bit more than hoses with NPT ends and they don't have NPT's drawbacks.

 

[MileHighRover]

Forget trying to make an extension hose and just replace the whole thing. Go with the fittings of your choosing and remake the entire line from pump to lift.

 

[mreisner]

Local John Deere dealer or Cat dealer should be able to make whatever you need

 

[newpain01]

Forget trying to make an extension hose and just replace the whole thing. Go with the fittings of your choosing and remake the entire line from pump to lift.

I agree with you, but still need to connect that new hose to this fitting on the pump. This does look like a 1/2" JIC.



And then the new hose also needs to have a 90 such as this because there is no space in the power cabinet to connect a straight hose. The hose is coming in from the left side and the pump fitting is on the right.

 

[newpain01]

Is this the quick disconnect I need?
https://www.discounthydraulichose.com/10000-psi-coupler-sets.html

They only have this type for "hydraulic jack service".
I am not sure if I really need 10 000 psi, but my original hose is rated at 60Mpa which is 8700psi.

 

[MileHighRover]

Check out this place for custom hoses and all your fittings.

Universal Hose and Fittings

 

[Geran Brown]

@newpain01 Did you ever figure this out? I need to run the lines on the other side and I'm holding off while I do research to see if it is possible.

 

[ArmyVW_GuyInTX]

I have a vintage Wheeltronic/Snap on scissor lift that came with a hose that was permanently connected to the lift and too short for my liking. A visit the base hydraulic shop netted my a 30 foot hose with military quick disconnects that don't drip (much) with matching fittings.

This keeps the pump unit inside when not in use.

 

[Mike65]

In the picture you posted it looks like the toolboxes are 21 separate units. Couldn't you separate the two & put the power unit for the lift between them, or move both of them & put the power unit to the left of the toolboxes & the black cabinet? That way you would not have to worry about fabricating extension hoses & the power unit would be closer to the front of the lift.

 

[newpain01]

Thanks for following up and yes, you are right, the toolboxes are 2 separate units that I bolted together to have a long workbench and I did not want to split them. I had a company make me a 20ft custom hose and moved the control box in the corner of the garage.

 

[no704]

Thanks!
I've been thinking about how to cover the lines as well and will definitely do that. There are also a few wires that will go along the hose and I don't want to drill into the concrete for that cover. I've seen some plastic channels probably on amazon such as the one below, but I will need something wider that can fit the coupling.

The yellow part opens.