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Miller 235 Up in Smoke. Need a Suitable Replacement!

Metallitubby

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My Miller 235 of 20+ years decided to self-immolate itself this morning, up in smoke. I may end up buying a new board for it eventually, but what else out there is equal to it, if not better? I would prefer a brand with actual replacement parts, and some sort of support if necessary.

Are the new multi-process machines good or great at any one thing? Titan/Vulcan/PrimeWeld/etc.
 
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Metallitubby

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Too bad you’re not closer bud. I’m going to sell my virtually new miller 215. It’s a nice machine.

My suggestion is if you don’t need portability, I’d go with a miller 252.

Portability (now that I think of it) isn't that important. Aside from moving, I've never moved my welder or plasma off the cart. You can PM me your asking price if you are serious about the 215.
 

mike93lx

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My Miller 235 of 20+ years decided to self-immolate itself this morning, up in smoke. I may end up buying a new board for it eventually, but what else out there is equal to it, if not better? I would prefer a brand with actual replacement parts, and some sort of support if necessary.

Are the new multi-process machines good or great at any one thing? Titan/Vulcan/PrimeWeld/etc.
You buying a Vulcan over a Miller/Lincoln feels funny.

That said, Primeweld has a great reputation. Do you need multiprocess? Any benefit to getting separate mig and tig setups for you?
 

MoonRise

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Define your wants/needs.

12" diameter spools, or just 8" and 4"?

Spray transfer mode or just short-circuit transfer mode?

Supports a push-pull gun for aluminum directly, or plug and play spool gun support for aluminum, or you don't care about aluminum at all?

Portable or at least semi-portable, or a big old shop/garage beast?

Unfortunately, AFAIK the 'main' boards are pretty expensive. If you can find/get them.

Sorry to hear about your Lucas event. I think that you can sometimes find some NOS Lucas smoke in a jar to replace your Miller magic smoke. Not the same brand obviously, but magic smoke is usually compatible. 😆

If you want/need 12" spool capability and spray transfer mode capability in a wire-feed machine, then that usually means the 250+ class machines. Big, heavy, capable machines. Usually around ~2x the price of the smaller ~215 class machines. Ouch.

How about an engine drive and a suitcase unit? 😆
 
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Metallitubby

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You buying a Vulcan over a Miller/Lincoln feels funny.

It does. I hate even asking, but their stuff has gotten much better since they tend to copy/duplicate the better technologies.

Do you need multiprocess? Any benefit to getting separate mig and tig setups for you?

I don't do enough TIG to justify a separate TIG machine. Plus, one of the guys on our team usually does our TIG stuff anyway.
 

loganb

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I've got the Primeweld MTS200. Haven't used the tig side yet but the little bit of MIG I've used has been good. Definitely more steps then a dedicated wire welder to get it setup but once I get used to it don't think it'll be bad. Haven't needed the support yet but the online community raves on the responsiveness of the company and their customer service.
 
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Metallitubby

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12" diameter spools, or just 8" and 4"?

12" is what our rig at the office uses, and I just don't need that much wire at any given time. Plus, I could just use the office beast if necessary.

Spray transfer mode or just short-circuit transfer mode?

Help educate me on the need for either.

Supports a push-pull gun for aluminum directly, or plug and play spool gun support for aluminum, or you don't care about aluminum at all?

Aluminum is not necessary. Our in-house TIG guy is my go-to for "factory look" welds.

Portable or at least semi-portable, or a big old shop/garage beast?

Portable for size, but true portability is not necessary.

Unfortunately, AFAIK the 'main' boards are pretty expensive. If you can find/get them.

I found a couple for my model Miller, but like you mentioned, they are expensive.

Sorry to hear about your Lucas event. I think that you can sometimes find some NOS Lucas smoke in a jar to replace your Miller magic smoke. Not the same brand obviously, but magic smoke is usually compatible. 😆

It's funny, this is exactly what I thought when the failure occurred.
 

Sweetcorn

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I have a bunch of Miller equipment and I expect I'll continue to do so as time goes on.

I have the 215 multiprocess already mentioned and thats a great machine. I bought one of the first ones when it came out and it's been problem free. I wanted something portable and lightweigth for odd jobs and it's fit the bill just fine. Lots of hours on it.

Also have the 252 and a syncrowave, but it sounds like you'd be interested in the multi process machine instead of dedicated units.

A friend got a Miller 220 multiprocess and it's very nice. Still a compact package, lots of power, and high frequency start for aluminum TIG. If something happens to my 215, I'll get one of these.
 

drmarkr

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We sold our blue and red machines and now have primeweld TIG and MIG. Really loving these things. The service for their customers far, far exceeds anything in the welding industry.
 

Aaron_W

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Are the new multi-process machines good or great at any one thing? Titan/Vulcan/PrimeWeld/etc.

You have to look at them individually, there are some good multi-process machines that don't compromise much, but you pay for it, around $4000 for a 200A AC/DC machine. At that price it is not much more to get into a bigger MIG like a Miller 252.

Miller's 220ACDC is basically a Mig welder (Miller 211) and an AC/DC TIG welder (a unicorn that doesn't matchup with any specific Miller TIG welder) that share a case and power supply. It is literally 2 machines in 1, as you can instantly swap from MIG to TIG / Stick, no need to swap things around (you do have to swap parts to go from TIG to Stick).

The Miller 215 is similar to the 220, but only DC TIG so about $1000 cheaper.

If you really just need MIG welder the Miller 211 is 1/3 the price of the 220 and you essentially get the same MIG welder that you get in the 215 or 220.



A lot of the lower priced multi process machines are DC TIG only, and many also limit the TIG features like only offering scratch start TIG. With the imports I think you are probably better off going with stand alone MIG and TIG welders, as there are some (apparently) pretty decent AC/DC TIG welders available, and good MIG welders are cheaper than multi-process.

I've been really happy with my Miller 220, but it was a lot cheaper 6 years ago, and the budget brands were not as cheap at that time.
If I had to replace my 220 at current prices I'd probably go with a Primeweld 225 ($900) for TIG. On the MIG side, I might still spurge on a Miller 211 ($1600), but realistically a Hobart 210MVP ($999) would do all I need at 2/3 the price of Miller and it is a name brand for only $100 more than a HF Vulcan 215.
 
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MoonRise

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Spray transfer mode GMAW is a high(er) energy and heat welding process. The solid wire turns into molten droplets of metal as it continuously feeds into the arc zone. Very fluid welding puddle so much so that it is NOT usable in all positions but only in flat position unless you have a machine that can do pulsed spray mode (not counting Jody from weldingtipsandtricks recounting how he sort of did manual pulse spray), HOT, continuous arc, uses higher voltage and higher amperage than short-circuit transfer mode, uses shielding gases like 98-2 argon-O2 (often used for spray mode transfer on stainless steel) or 95-5 or 90-10 argon-CO2 for steel. Makes a hiss noise during welding and not the usual sizzling bacon noise that short-circuit transfer mode makes.

Unless you have pulsed spray mode, for 'thin' steel you are usually using short-circuit transfer mode GMAW. The wire electrode touches the workpiece, shorts out and heats up, then burns back and makes an arc, and repeats. At about 60 times per second, hence the sizzling bacon sounds.

You can look up more details on the modes online. Videos, descriptions, examples, etc.

By the time you put a 60-80 lb modern inverter welder on a cart with a gas cylinder you are about the same footprint as a 250+class big welder. Just not 150+lbs of welder + gas cylinder weight to move around.

The 250+ class machines are all usually 230-240V (or the industrial versions that can sometimes be bought in the higher voltage versions 440V or 3 phase).

The modern inverter 215 class machines are often usable on 120V at lower amperage settings and 230-240V at the higher settings. I consider them semi-portable, as you have the machine and the wires/cables/torch and the gas cylinder to move around.

Not portable like a lunchbox 10-25lb inverter stick/TIG welder with a shoulder strap. 😆

The Miller MM220 multiprocess machine is 220-240V only. Expensive though, up in the $4k range, similar to the 250+class MIG machines.

Red, blue, ESAB yellow, maybe HTP or Primeweld would be what I would look at. Although some other brands have gotten better, they usually don't have the support and parts that the big names have.

I'm not a good enough welder to want to fight with an off brand machine and wonder if it's the machine or me causing 'issues'. And the whole support and parts thing.

Sheet metal and 'thin' steel up to ~1/4" or so and the modern 215 class inverter welders should cover that with solid wire GMAW. FCAW-S or FCAW-G ( aka dual shield) can usually be done with the modern inverter 215 class machines, and those wires run 'hotter' than solid wire short-circuit transfer mode GMAW and can let you weld a little bit thicker steel than solid wire short-circuit transfer mode GMAW.

Check the wire details though, some 'general purpose' FCAW-S wires do NOT have rated impact properties. Not that they are 'bad' wires, just that they don't have to meet impact properties in that classification category.

Also Double check any racing sanctioning rules for welding. Some organizations have rules about those sorts of things. 🤣
 

LXCam

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Spray transfer mode GMAW is a high(er) energy and heat welding process. The solid wire turns into molten droplets of metal as it continuously feeds into the arc zone. Very fluid welding puddle so much so that it is NOT usable in all positions but only in flat position unless you have a machine that can do pulsed spray mode (not counting Jody from weldingtipsandtricks recounting how he sort of did manual pulse spray), HOT, continuous arc, uses higher voltage and higher amperage than short-circuit transfer mode, uses shielding gases like 98-2 argon-O2 (often used for spray mode transfer on stainless steel) or 95-5 or 90-10 argon-CO2 for steel. Makes a hiss noise during welding and not the usual sizzling bacon noise that short-circuit transfer mode makes.

Unless you have pulsed spray mode, for 'thin' steel you are usually using short-circuit transfer mode GMAW. The wire electrode touches the workpiece, shorts out and heats up, then burns back and makes an arc, and repeats. At about 60 times per second, hence the sizzling bacon sounds.

You can look up more details on the modes online. Videos, descriptions, examples, etc.

By the time you put a 60-80 lb modern inverter welder on a cart with a gas cylinder you are about the same footprint as a 250+class big welder. Just not 150+lbs of welder + gas cylinder weight to move around.

The 250+ class machines are all usually 230-240V (or the industrial versions that can sometimes be bought in the higher voltage versions 440V or 3 phase).

The modern inverter 215 class machines are often usable on 120V at lower amperage settings and 230-240V at the higher settings. I consider them semi-portable, as you have the machine and the wires/cables/torch and the gas cylinder to move around.

Not portable like a lunchbox 10-25lb inverter stick/TIG welder with a shoulder strap. 😆

The Miller MM220 multiprocess machine is 220-240V only. Expensive though, up in the $4k range, similar to the 250+class MIG machines.

Red, blue, ESAB yellow, maybe HTP or Primeweld would be what I would look at. Although some other brands have gotten better, they usually don't have the support and parts that the big names have.

I'm not a good enough welder to want to fight with an off brand machine and wonder if it's the machine or me causing 'issues'. And the whole support and parts thing.

Sheet metal and 'thin' steel up to ~1/4" or so and the modern 215 class inverter welders should cover that with solid wire GMAW. FCAW-S or FCAW-G ( aka dual shield) can usually be done with the modern inverter 215 class machines, and those wires run 'hotter' than solid wire short-circuit transfer mode GMAW and can let you weld a little bit thicker steel than solid wire short-circuit transfer mode GMAW.

Check the wire details though, some 'general purpose' FCAW-S wires do NOT have rated impact properties. Not that they are 'bad' wires, just that they don't have to meet impact properties in that classification category.

Also Double check any racing sanctioning rules for welding. Some organizations have rules about those sorts of things. 🤣
Great words of wisdom moon. And you just happened to touch on why I’m selling my 215. I bought it to be a mobile unit. We used it one time on a small project and it’s just far too nice a unit plus being very cumbersome to be a mobile player. I’ve since gone to the inverter stick units for field work. And at my shop I’ve got my tried and true 251 as well as a red 140 with flux core set up for the occasional small outside project.
 
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Metallitubby

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Also Double check any racing sanctioning rules for welding. Some organizations have rules about those sorts of things. 🤣

I only do small parts fabrication (mostly exhaust and intake plumbing). Our roll cages are built by cage/chassis fab shops that only build such things. Pikes Peak has very specific weld/fabrication logbooks for each vehicle, of which I've been involved with for over a decade.
 

gpiggaz

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I'm just an amateur, but I have a Primeweld Plasma cutter that has been bullet proof, it runs my CNC machine - Primeweld's customer service has been stellar too- I had a need to call them when I broke the remote cable (tripped over it my fault) they said, no problem and sent out another one very quickly ( and didn't charge me for my mistake) When I need a new welder to replace my little Hobart welder, I plan to buy from them for sure
 
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mike93lx

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It does. I hate even asking, but their stuff has gotten much better since they tend to copy/duplicate the better technologies.



I don't do enough TIG to justify a separate TIG machine. Plus, one of the guys on our team usually does our TIG stuff anyway.
Feels like you should get a capex request in for a dynasty 300dx, you know, for safety and ****, and then convince your boss to sell you one of the fully depreciated "junkers" for a few bucks

At the risk of getting serious, maybe check with the welding shop that you use at work to see if they have a trade in? Otherwise, I'd buy a primeweld
 
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strength_and_power

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I have a Miller 220 multiprocess machine and it’s a decent piece. I don’t love the fan running every time I pull the trigger. I did upgrade the MIG gun as the one supplied felt like a toy.

I’m also a huge fan of my Fronius Transteel 2200. Spendy but lays down a great bead, compact, lightweight, dual voltage. I’m still using the original nozzle and contact tip after several years of use
 
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Metallitubby

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Feels like you shook get a capex request in for dynasty 300dx, you know, for safety and ****, and then convince your boss to sell you one of the fully depreciated "junkers" for a few bucks

I could do this, but finding someone in our company to take responsibility for such things is the tough part. I've posted about some things that have been donated, trashed, or sold me via random shop sales in the past.
 

BigMike782

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Man, Google is going to blow your mind when you discover it

Multimatic 235?
The Multimatic line didn’t exist 20 years ago so my question stands even with Google.
 

cannuck

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I have a bunch of Miller equipment and I expect I'll continue to do so as time goes on.

I have the 215 multiprocess already mentioned and thats a great machine. I bought one of the first ones when it came out and it's been problem free. I wanted something portable and lightweigth for odd jobs and it's fit the bill just fine. Lots of hours on it.

Also have the 252 and a syncrowave, but it sounds like you'd be interested in the multi process machine instead of dedicated units.

A friend got a Miller 220 multiprocess and it's very nice. Still a compact package, lots of power, and high frequency start for aluminum TIG. If something happens to my 215, I'll get one of these.
I have a Multimatic 255 with a 25' push/pull gun that I bought a few years ago to replace my ancient Esab with electro/pneumatic push pull gun. Not that I think everyone should go out and spend THAT much dosh on a Mig machine, but my shop is fairly cramped and the ability to walk in a 25' arc around the machine makes working on big things that barely fit in the work bay is hard to beat. I started thinking in this manner from spending a year crawling all over some HUGE machines carrying my 211 connected to gas bottle and power cords over 50' away and 20' below.

Now. with those thoughts behind us: my next 2 machines will be a water cooled TIG and 60Amp plasma. If I go with Prime either one won't cost a lot more than one or two boards for my blue machines. On top of that, the distributor sits across the coffee table from me once a month, so I know what my support will be like.
 

dscheidt

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12" is what our rig at the office uses, and I just don't need that much wire at any given time. Plus, I could just use the office beast if necessary.



Help educate me on the need for either.



Aluminum is not necessary. Our in-house TIG guy is my go-to for "factory look" welds.



Portable for size, but true portability is not necessary.



I found a couple for my model Miller, but like you mentioned, they are expensive.



It's funny, this is exactly what I thought when the failure

The board is often repairable. Failure is usually pretty obvious, and is usually a bunch of discrete components.
 

tarbellb

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Good luck with your quest.

Funny tho, you said you want repairable/ parts but wont be repairing your current rig? Ive found repairing Red and Blue like resoling good boots. I want to, but the cost and hassle are almost = to buying new?

Either way, lots of really amazing machines on the market at all price points, interested to see where you land.
 
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Metallitubby

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Funny tho, you said you want repairable/ parts but wont be repairing your current rig? Ive found repairing Red and Blue like resoling good boots. I want to, but the cost and hassle are almost = to buying new?

I'll likely work on getting the Miller going once I have something reliable to take its place. I am not against having a portable version for trackside repairs, and have a dedicated shop unit.

Either way, lots of really amazing machines on the market at all price points, interested to see where you land.

Frankly, me too.
 

BigMike782

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I'm still curious to know what machine you have.
Miller never made a model 235 until the Multimatic line came out.
If it's 20 years old it's likely a transformer machine and much more likely fixable than the newer inverters.
 
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Metallitubby

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I'm still curious to know what machine you have.
Miller never made a model 235 until the Multimatic line came out.
If it's 20 years old it's likely a transformer machine and much more likely fixable than the newer inverters.

You can start a new thread and ask.
 

nadogail

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I have been told that Hobart Welders are substantially equal to Millers. They are grey instead of blue and are sold at different price points, Millers are sold through professional welding supply houses and Hobarts though “Big Box Stores” at a lower price point.
My personal welder is a Hobart Stick Mate.
 
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Metallitubby

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I have been told that Hobart Welders are substantially equal to Millers. They are grey instead of blue and are sold at different price points, Millers are sold through professional welding supply houses and Hobarts though “Big Box Stores”.
My personal welder is a Hobart Stick Mate.

I'm not against Hobart by any means, but much of their offerings seem to be rebranded models from other manufacturers.
 
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Metallitubby

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Both Hobart and Miller are owned by Illinois Tool Works.

Correct. When I was researching the replacement PCB for my Miller unit, I came across many shared components (which isn't a bad thing). It just opened my eyes to the state of the business, which led me to asking questions here.
 

BigMike782

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New, I have heard a lot of good things about Primeweld.
Are you looking for multi process or stand alone MIG?

If looking to keep the budget down and MIG only I would look for a Millermatic 200. Yup, they are old but the control circuit uses relays instead of PCBs.
 

MoonRise

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BTW, Lincoln now has a PowerMig 220 multiprocess machine that can run on 120 or 240, wire feed (GMAW or FCAW), stick (says it can run 6010, while the PM215 specifically says that it can not run 6010. If that matters to you. ), and AC/DC TIG with pulse option and most of the TIG adjustments.

Again, rather spendy. Although Lincoln is running some rebates again on some machines. If you don't need/want AC TIG for aluminum or magnesium, you might skip it.

HTP has a 230V only, 220A multiprocess machine that can do pulsed spray mode GMAW. Looks like an interesting machine, doesn't seem quite as efficient on the input amps as the Lincoln PM215 or PM220 (speculation on my part that the Lincoln power-factor circuitry is a big part of that). Can take 8" or 12" spools of wire, but is still semi-portable at around 50 lbs (bare machine, no cables or spool of wire installed).
 
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