finn
Well-known member
The only thing he can legally repossess is the tool that money is owed on.
Without a court order, taking anything beyond that is theft, in all fifty states.
I think one of my tool truck drivers has had it with non payers
- Thread starter Shoreline_
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Without a court order, taking anything beyond that is theft, in all fifty states.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
And good luck getting access to where those tools are stored. This isn't a car that can be picked up outdoors in plain sight
rooster59
Well-known member
On advice of older relatives, I've bought "cash on the barrel head" whenever possible. Kept me out of trouble. Listen to all the financing talk, nod, uh huh. What's the price? Ok, here's cash. Now I often get dirty looks for that (OK boomer). I can't imagine giving tools to folks and expecting them to pay me back. Maybe the wrenches and screwdrivers that vamoosed without being paid for have something to do with the tool truck price being high to cover losses.
<rant>
1980, most car loans were 36 months (3 years). Now it's what, maybe 60 months (5 years). Young guys buying $95,000 pickups with 7 year loans? I don't get life anymore.
</rant>
<rant>
1980, most car loans were 36 months (3 years). Now it's what, maybe 60 months (5 years). Young guys buying $95,000 pickups with 7 year loans? I don't get life anymore.
</rant>
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Surprisingly, nobody has come up with a DBDB for the tool truck drivers. DEAD BEAT DATA BASE.
Want truck credit fill out a credit app and your information puts you in the system. Tool truck drivers can buy into the database membership, for a set amount, say $100/yr. Database will include names/locations of all the dead beat buyers. Wanna skip out on your driver, go somewhere else and try to screw another driver out of money. . . so bud, you owe another driver money, I'm not lending you squat. . . . or the driver can upcharge to cover his possible future loss.
$100/yr doesn't sound like much but if you could get buy in from all the drivers across the country, SO, MAC, Matco and Cornwell, It could be a possible decent side hustle.
Sure, there's other credit bureau's out there but this would be for the drivers, by the drivers and only as good as the drivers make it out to be.
1Bad55Chevy
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That all depends on the contracts you sign. When they repo a box its not just the box its everything in the box regardless of brand. They sell everything off to try and recover the remaining balance of the box. Like when I repo cars you dont get your wheels and stereo back..
Ya thats the reason they dont finance to people who dont work in shops. I have done 3 repos on tool boxes with my buddy who owns a repo business. Its absolutely insane getting a box out of a shop because you literally have to go in there ready to fight the entire shop. Tempers go through the roof because the tech is getting fired for creating the disturbance and now your putting them out of the ability to get another job once you take their tools.
The first two we took the techs bay was empty and we were able to just back the repo truck up to it. We used the wheel lift on the truck to pick up the box and pulled out of the shop. The last one we did was a total nightmare.
finn
Well-known member
I agree that if you sign a contract giving your tools as collatera, then those tools can be repossessed.
Lacking a contract like that, they can’t be touched. Just like the dealer can’t take your car or kitchen table.
neophyte
Well-known member
According to a Snap-On dealer in a past thread, (sorry, I gorget the member’s name), the contract from Snap-On allows Snap-On to seize the tool box, and any Snap-On branded items in the toolbox, for payment of outstanding debt.
The usual requirements have to be taken, such as inventorying any and every item seized, with approximate value estimates, and prices items are later sold for, and any overages to debt being returned to the defaulting customer.
I believe this was the official contract signed for larger loan values backed by Snap-On, which have to be repo’d by the Snap-On dealer, but may also apply to loans backed by the Snap-On dealer due to the contract already bring in place.
Basically, it’s a giant pain in the @ss, which is why just trying to get some money every week is usually preferable.
Given the tales of Snap-On dealers being unable to warrantee defective tools, sometimes for months, that have been posted on here, as well as stories of Snap-On dealers occasionally not recording payments, also that have been posted on here, it’s probably not always a “customer is bad, Snap-On dealer is good” story.
I wonder if Snap-On dealers might just sign up for a “buy now, pay later” service like Klarna, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klarna), and ket customers deal with an actual “financial institution”, in future.
finn
Well-known member
See my post above.
neophyte
Well-known member
It depends on how the “contract” was signed.
Registering for a Snap-On account, may have the “loan contract language” embedded in the the account sign up, which 99+% of people may not read, sort of like accepting the terms for a software update, Which may include clauses for arbitration, or deletion of all your data.
Paying outright in cash, may avoid this, but then there might be deals you miss, which are then used to get customers to sign an “official contract” with terms the customer might not realize.
All correct. I've never filled out the EC application, but I did take one and read it out of morbid curiosity.
Notgrownup
Well-known member
Ohio Andy
Well-known member
Since you have experience....
If the truck charges interest (do they charge interest) that then counts as more income I assume. (That was a question)
I've never heard of interest being charged on truck accounts. (money put out by the driver, usually <$2000). I can only guess this would add complications exceeding the value of the interest they could charge on such low balances.
The Snap On EC (extended credit) program is more of a traditional loan, with interest rates based on credit worthiness, and even the lowest rate tends to be high. Typically used for larger purchases: tool boxes, scan tools, shop equipment.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I haven't heard of truck accounts charging interest. That said, yes, it would be interest income if they did. Any costs associated with servicing that debt would be deductible from that income
Make sure to 1099 Vinny for his leg breaking service!
Technically speaking... if they don't charge interest and balance is extended over a long enough period of time (months or years) IRS could demand interest be imputed but seriously doubt that ever happens in real world. If dealer is big enough their accountant may do that. It wouldn't add any income just change how its characterized which could have some tax implications if balances are large enough.
ETA typically issue with installment sales dealing with real property or other investments involving capital gains. If no interest is stated (or its below market rate), imputed interest will be taxed at ordinary income rates vs capital gains which may be taxed at lower rates. Again, don't think this would typically apply to vendor selling tools and offering extended payment terms just throwing it out there.
ETA typically issue with installment sales dealing with real property or other investments involving capital gains. If no interest is stated (or its below market rate), imputed interest will be taxed at ordinary income rates vs capital gains which may be taxed at lower rates. Again, don't think this would typically apply to vendor selling tools and offering extended payment terms just throwing it out there.
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Wrench97
Well-known member
Talked to a guy the other day bought a 78k pick up with a 100 month loan......hope the truck makes it that long his last one didn't....
rust in the eye
Well-known member
Folks, a sucker is born every minute so forever there will be those to fleece them.
I have little sympathy for either.
I have little sympathy for either.
Nobody-named-Olli
Well-known member
Ethics, morals, professionalism all aside. I don’t have a dog in any of those fights.:
If a dealer did that here and one of those “called out” went legally after the dealer, the dealer would have been far better off just chucking the potential loss/ or minimum payments.
Big no-no.
Kind regards,
Olli
If a dealer did that here and one of those “called out” went legally after the dealer, the dealer would have been far better off just chucking the potential loss/ or minimum payments.
Big no-no.
Kind regards,
Olli
nicks78camaro
Well-known member
I love tools but would never own a tool truck. I would consider running one for a base salary or hourly wage plus commission or bonuses. Too much risk for me to entertain owning it all.
And yes to someone earlier: I've heard from both my Snap On and Cornwell guys that their average margin is high 30s%, and they average 3-5% write offs for nonpayment.
And yes to someone earlier: I've heard from both my Snap On and Cornwell guys that their average margin is high 30s%, and they average 3-5% write offs for nonpayment.
The real kick in the pants of all this goodness, if you’re a new tech and one need tools and a box, they are gonna end up going to hock even if you buy everything from Harbor freight
Notgrownup
Well-known member
If I was a tech I would buy HF stuff
BlakeTheCarGuy
ALLIANCE MEMBER
As someone who has both a truck account on all the trucks and credit account on one of the trucks. My advice is to stay far away from it because it’s hard to have to commit too. There was one month I couldn’t pay for the entire month because everything hit all at once but luckily the guys had no problem with giving me a break for a bit because I’d never missed a payment before. Snap-on approved me for $10,000 in credit and I got it up to about $9,800 on the credit and $1,000 on the truck before I said enough and now I’ve only got a few payments left and have a few payments left to Mac and one to Matco then I’m done till I need something again.
We have this lube tech who got all of his tools repoed because he’d get them and after he would make a few payments then say he didn’t have any money but yet went on the tool trucks every week talking about how he spent a few grand on his go kart so they said enough and came and got his stuff. That’s the only person I’ve known personally to have stuff repoed. Now none of them will let him buy anything unless he pays it in full so he got mad and finally got some cheaper non tool truck tools.
We have this lube tech who got all of his tools repoed because he’d get them and after he would make a few payments then say he didn’t have any money but yet went on the tool trucks every week talking about how he spent a few grand on his go kart so they said enough and came and got his stuff. That’s the only person I’ve known personally to have stuff repoed. Now none of them will let him buy anything unless he pays it in full so he got mad and finally got some cheaper non tool truck tools.
Then most tool trucks wouldn't have many clients...
rust in the eye
Well-known member
My post was directed at a fellow running a buy here, pay here used car store.
You can make the same argument about the tool truck because it seems they both attract many of the same clientele.
rust in the eye
Well-known member
A fellow can get most all hand tools, some common "specialty" tools, a diagnostic device and a box to get going for a few grand even buying their top Icon brand at HF.
If penniless and putting that on a credit card is to be considered "going into debt" then so be it. I think the mechanic's debt often discussed here is far bigger. A newcomer a bit more resourceful could do same or better buying used.
rust in the eye
Well-known member
Not a good comparison.
I would make a closer comparison between the lending business of tool trucks and BHPH car sales than their clientele. Both being a bit predatory.
The BHPH guy caters to those with few choices, tool truck caters to those that (sometimes) choose to live beyond their means. The guy buying a third hand Hyundai so he can get to work at McDonalds isn't the same as another fellow of modest means who walks into the Cadillac store and signs a seven+ year note on the dotted line.
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mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Taking on debt to buy tools to perform a job shouldn't be necessary. This system is broken.
A mechanic should be able to choose to buy tools, but not have to
rust in the eye
Well-known member
My father, a banker, often told me this.
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rust in the eye
Well-known member
He must have tools, some CHOOSE to buy the most expensive.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
rust in the eye
Well-known member
I hear that is common in Europe.
if tools were provided I'd expect wages to be lower. Pick your poison.
rust in the eye
Well-known member
Your shop's oil change ***** wants to hang with the big boys so buys a bunch of expensive stuff to do the ever demanding and precision job of draining and refilling an engine's sump.
Stellar choice! This fellow has a bright future as a "lube tech".
I know you know there are MANY auto mechanics with fully tricked out "Brodozers"... $75-100K plus trucks that embody the majority of their net worth. Same with their toolboxes. These people live paycheck to paycheck and usually have very poor credit ratings due to poor life choices and the perceived need to "keep up with the Joneses".
Nobody-named-Olli
Well-known member
It’s a little more complicated than that. And a lot has to do with how apprentices - in general and not only in “the trades” are trained on the job as well as further educated & trained in school during their apprenticeship.
Back in the day it was anything but uncommon that apprentices weren’t even of legal age/ an adult by law and as young as 14. And even today, if their path through the educational system is straight, they can enter their apprenticeship below the “legal age” of 18. By law, you can start an apprenticeship today as young as 15 - as long as you fulfilled the mandatory years in school/ “graduated”.
There is no way a 16 year old from an average family buys all the tools necessary to start an apprenticeship. Just like an apprentice in finance doesn’t buy their own Bloomberg terminal/ subscription …
And for many, the journey of “personal tools” starts with graduating the apprenticeship as journeyman and then being gifted some by parents, relatives and maybe even the employer. But again, not necessarily. And bringing personal tools can be a “hot topic” all by itself. It doesn’t have to be, but it can be.
Please don’t consider this a full blown recommendation or praise for the system in any way. This system has it’s own set of flaws. But it is what it is, different.
Kind regards,
Olli
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I am no mechanic. And it is to everyone’s advantage that I stay this way. But if I was starting out and certain that I was going to be a mechanic taking advantage of Snappy’s student discount program may make sense. I know it’s like giving a potential addict a good price on meth. But it seems like a semi reasonable way to get some good tools.It’s a little more complicated than that. And a lot has to do with how apprentices - in general and not only “the trades” are trained on the job as well as further educated & trained in school during their apprenticeship.
Back in the day it was anything but uncommon that apprentices weren’t even of legal age/ an adult by law and as young as 14. And even today, if their path through the educational system is straight, they can enter their apprenticeship below the “legal age” of 18. By law, you can start an apprenticeship today as young as 15 - as long as you fulfilled the mandatory years in school/ “graduated”.
There is no way a 16 year old from an average family buys all the tools necessary to start an apprenticeship. Just like an apprentice in finance doesn’t buy their own Bloomberg terminal/ subscription …
And for many, the journey of “personal tools” starts with graduating the apprenticeship as journeyman and then being gifted some by parents, relatives and maybe even the employer. But again, not necessarily. And bringing personal tools can be a “hot topic” all by itself. It doesn’t have to be, but it can be.
Please don’t consider this a full blown recommendation or praise for the system in any way. This system has it’s own set of flaws. But it is what it is, different.
Kind regards,
Olli
Wrench97
Well-known member
Tools are not provided simply because they "walk away", if you own them you take better care of them and ensure they are back where they should be after the job is completed.
Every place I've worked has provided equipment(trans jacks regular jacks etc.), scan tools, specialty tools they are usually the worst taken care of tools in the shop, put away broken missing pieces etc., it doesn't take long to understand why shop owners don't provide tools.
Every place I've worked has provided equipment(trans jacks regular jacks etc.), scan tools, specialty tools they are usually the worst taken care of tools in the shop, put away broken missing pieces etc., it doesn't take long to understand why shop owners don't provide tools.
1Bad55Chevy
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I am the BHPH guy.... I would love yo hear why my industry is predatory. Please give real facts not assumptions that we sell cars 100 times and the down payments cover the cost of the cars, because none of that is true. Yes we run state max interest on loans but on 18-36 month loans that is a much smaller finance charge then a new Tahoe at 84 months.
I would recommend you read the definition of predatory lending because that typically refers to industries like debt consolidation and payday loans.
1Bad55Chevy
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That's just poor people mentality. You have to remember with poor people its all a show. Nobody sees where you live or your bank account but they see your truck and your clothes everywhere you go. If you have the biggest baddest SO box in the shop you get all the "its obvious who makes all the money around here" comments and that makes you cool. If you look rich then in your mind your rich.