J H Williams vintage hand tools

[genog]

I bought a similar one a few weeks ago from a Hyena Flipper....
He promised to sell me the rest of the set......haven't heard from him since

I'm wondering why he separated the sockets, drive tools, etc from the box...




....he may figure that he will get more $$ by selling everything a la carte
Darn hyenas....

 

[HOF]

Are there any others?

 

[3baygarage]

I came upon this brochure today while going through some old files. While late 1990s doesn't fit everyone's definition of "vintage", this 1st generation Kobalt paper seemed like it may fit with the J.H. Williams history info.

Saw this a while back.

 

[d42jeep]

Are there any others?

Here is my B-150. I’ll look around to see if I have any others.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

I received a care package from Username yesterday that included what has to be an incredibly rare 3/4” drive Williams plug that is a perfect match for the ratchet I picked up recently. Thanks again!
-Don

Here is a rough 3/4” drive plug I posted upthread. Probably started life as an H-150.
-Don

 

[HOF]

Here is a rough 3/4” drive plug I posted upthread. Probably started life as an H-150.
-Don

The ratchet looks nicer than the plug.

 

[RTM]

Hey gang, here is another not mine, found on FBMP, an ST Combo set, 1/2”. Did not see it on a quick search, hope it’s new and unique.

 

[Patrickm82]

I have that same set! My box is a little rougher but complete. I will add a few pics this afternoon.

 

[Patrickm82]

Mine is a 3/8” set and not nearly as clean. Found it at a yard sale

 

[HOF]

I picked up a Williams catalog #311 recently off of eBay. I bought it because I saw that catalog #312 has the subtitle "A Snap-on Company." Since Snap-on bought Williams in 2011 ... it would stand to reason that catalog #312 would be dated to 2011. My catalog #311 has no date anywhere in the catalog. My best guess would be that it dates to 2010 or before.
A couple of questions:

1.) Does anyone actually know the dates to these catalogs?​

2.) I was told that Snap-on changed the company name from J.H. Williams to Williams, but this catalog says Williams without the subtitle of "A Snap-on Company." Are we sure that Snap-on changed the name?​

​

 

[four.cycle]

^ Some manufacturers to to great lengths to hide the publication dates of their catalogs.
What is the catalog number? 311? Can't do much with that.
Check the front cover, inside cover, frontispiece, inside rear cover, and rear cover for any letters/numbers which might offer a clue.

and.... did you get ahold of Mark at ITCL so he can scan it and get it uploaded?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Since Snap-on bought Williams in 2011 ...

Snap-on bought Williams in 1994.

I was told that Snap-on changed the company name from J.H. Williams to Williams,

Wasn't this just a topic just upthread with respect to a Snap-on Kobalt brochure that clearly retained a reference to the full name in small print?

I don't do much of any research in this very late questionably vintage time period beyond my hand tools industry conglomeration charts, so take this with a grain of salt, something to consider as you try to resolve this with other sources. The "change," or impression of one, might just be an artifact of Snap-on dropping the "J.H." in routine marketing and literature in the same way it was done throughout the company's history for convenience, long before they acquired it, where the "J.H." was implied or silent, so to speak. Their own trademark and oval logo, early and later, did not include the "J.H." In other words, even though Snap-on seems to have also referred to it as "Williams" and "Williams Industrial Products" and other names, the name of the legal business entity may still be "J.H. Williams", and people made inferences about the other instances more literally than they should.

 

[HOF]

^ Some manufacturers to to great lengths to hide the publication dates of their catalogs.
What is the catalog number? 311? Can't do much with that.
Check the front cover, inside cover, frontispiece, inside rear cover, and rear cover for any letters/numbers which might offer a clue.

and.... did you get ahold of Mark at ITCL so he can scan it and get it uploaded?

I couldn't find any date, nor could the previous owner. I don't know who Mark is or have any knowledge of how to contact him

 

[four.cycle]

^ they will hide them sometimes in various manners. typical:

"FORM 690-75" (indicating a 1975 publishing date)

Mark Stansbury is the site administrator for International Tool Catalog Library (He is also a member here on GarageJournal.com)

He can do all the scanning/collating/editing and get the original document sent back to you. He's done several dozen for me.

 

[HOF]

^ they will hide them sometimes in various manners. typical:

"FORM 690-75" (indicating a 1975 publishing date)

Mark Stansbury is the site administrator for International Tool Catalog Library (He is also a member here on GarageJournal.com)

He can do all the scanning/collating/editing and get the original document sent back to you. He's done several dozen for me.

I emailed Mark. Thanks for the info.

 

[HOF]

Snap-on bought Williams in 1994.

Thanks ... good to know.

 

[four.cycle]

I emailed Mark. Thanks for the info.

Excellent. Thank you.
Mark is also a whiz at sussing out publishing dates on catalogs - he sources trade journals and magazines and more often than not comes up with a date.

 

[MAD]

There might be several years between the 311 and 312 catalog. Companies would often just add supplements for a few new items and publish new price lists on a regular basis.

 

[HOF]

Excellent. Thank you.
Mark is also a whiz at sussing out publishing dates on catalogs - he sources trade journals and magazines and more often than not comes up with a date.

Update: Mark reports, "The printers code with date in on the inside back cover. 70M389 is 70,000 printed, Mar.1989." He even credited me for the catalog loan. Nice guy too ... a wonderful collaboration! Mark is now looking for Williams catalog #310. Below is the catalog.

https://archive.org/details/jh-williams-catalog-311

 

[four.cycle]

Excellent!

Mark is the man for figuring out catalog dates for sure!

 

[d42jeep]

This rusty but large Williams DOE was at Saturday’s estate sale. I thought that it might look better after the evaporust and polishing treatment.
It was a little too long for the main evaporust container and wouldn’t fit in either of the tubes so it got done in two stages.
Finished it yesterday. It’s ISN is 1037A. (1-5/16” x 1-1/8”) The 889 must be a previous owner’s identifier .
-Don

 

[LNKMK8]

I found this set while going through my friend's estate... A quick search in the 1955 Catalog shows the M-6 Set. It would appear this one is complete with its original pieces. This one is a keeper.

 

[HOF]

My newest purchase. I love that it came with the foam. The extra socket came with the set and was not original to the set per Williams catalogs. The socket is a ST-1221 size 21/32.

 

[Cruzan80]

Just picked this catalog up at an ES for $5. Not a ton of Vulcan stuff out there, this has the price sheet and dated 1968. They also had a 3-pc Vulcan toolbox set (+Yorktown mid box), but they wanted $450 for it. Good bones, but dirty/grimy, and no room at that price.


Unfortunately, it does not have the bent-handle flex head that I got from Pvt Lugz, so still looking for details on that.

Also, if anyone needs details or pics of certain pages/prices, let me know.

 

[DGersic]

Got this mixed box of tools off of eBay.

 

[four.cycle]

Just picked this catalog up at an ES for $5.

@Cruzan80 -

Best thing to do is contact @Mark Stansbury - one our members here - who also happens to be the site administrator for International Tool Catalog Library - he can do all the scanning, collating, and converting to *.pdf file and then return the original document to you.
He has done dozens of catalogs for me. (For that matter, I just sent him one a couple weeks ago.)
email Mark
Thanks!
BK

 

[HOF]

Here is my budget/value Williams line 1/2" Drive set. The number on the box is unreadable, but the tools cleaned up nicely.

 

[Ayrhead]

My Big Daddy…. It’s 26” Long. Has a 1” drive. It’s my biggest Ratchet yet. I noticed that @stricht8 posted about getting one in 2010. Unfortunately, I don’t have any Williams sockets for it yet and I’m also needing the 1” plug. I’m trying to figure out the year of manufacture but still working on it…

 

[Ayrhead]

My Big Daddy…. It’s 26” Long. Has a 1” drive. It’s my biggest Ratchet yet. I noticed that @stricht8 posted about getting one in 2010. Unfortunately, I don’t have any Williams sockets for it yet and I’m also needing the 1” plug. I’m trying to figure out the year of manufacture but still working on it…

So just an update… I haven’t found any further information on Big Daddy…. But I did find a Big Momma… She is now my biggest ratchet. It’s 38” long, it has a 1 1/2” hex drive. The J H Williams E1-36 Supererector….

 

[RTM]

Here is a potential add to my Williams stash. The very faint mark on the flex handle looks like a W in a Diamond. Does the general shape look like a Williams? The one socket had its leading outer edge ground down. Both sockets have a B in front of the size, and the W Diamond after.

 

[Ayrhead]

So just an update… I haven’t found any further information on Big Daddy…. But I did find a Big Momma… She is now my biggest ratchet. It’s 38” long, it has a 1 1/2” hex drive. The J H Williams E1-36 Supererector….

I managed to find on archive.org a 1937 & 1942 catalog. Both catalogues have the Superector ratchets… so I am assuming the two ratchets are from the era… late 30’s to early 40’s…

 

[HOF]

Here is a potential add to my Williams stash. The very faint mark on the flex handle looks like a W in a Diamond. Does the general shape look like a Williams? The one socket had its leading outer edge ground down. Both sockets have a B in front of the size, and the W Diamond after.

It looks like they are the Williams budget/value line. Do they say Williams or just <W>?

 

[RTM]

It looks like they are the Williams budget/value line. Do they say Williams or just <W>?

Just the <W> on the sockets, and maybe also a small B on the flex handle.

 

[HOF]

Just the <W> on the sockets, and maybe also a small B on the flex handle.

The B means Bantam or 3/8" drive.

 

[misterbill]

I picked these up locally yesterday. Stamping on the face would indicate pre-1947. I don't have many early SOEs and am used to seeing the faces polished on carbon wrenches that still have some coating (japanning/enameled). Anybody have any insight as to whether coating the entire wrench was an expedient production measure for WWII manufacturing or common practice for this style?




Bill

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Anybody have any insight as to whether coating the entire wrench was an expedient production measure for WWII manufacturing or common practice for this style?

Neither, Bill. Williams offered an "Unfinished" option for their entire line of Superior (carbon steel) wrenches, of all styles/types, including Engineers' (SOE and DOE), Textile, "S", Checknut, Light Service, etc. That's what you have there. The "Finished" option had the faces buffed bright. If you page through any Williams catalog from the 1920's through the 1940's, you will see an explanation in the beginning of the wrenches section, and within the section, you will see it in the text under the wrenches as well as in the price column headers on the far right in the tables. The "Unfinished" wrenches were a few cents less than the "Finished."

I rarely see them.

 

[misterbill]

Neither, Bill. Williams offered an "Unfinished" option for their entire line of Superior (carbon steel) wrenches, of all styles/types, including Engineers' (SOE and DOE), Textile, "S", Checknut, Light Service, etc. That's what you have there. The "Finished" option had the faces buffed bright. If you page through any Williams catalog from the 1920's through the 1940's, you will see an explanation in the beginning of the wrenches section, and within the section, you will see it in the text under the wrenches as well as in the price column headers on the far right in the tables. The "Unfinished" wrenches were a few cents less than the "Finished."

I rarely see them.

Thanks, G. I've seen that passage before but I always equated "unfinished" with just plain steel.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I always equated "unfinished" with just plain steel.

Thwop! (That's the sound of my hand hitting my head.) I think you're right. That does make more sense. I've been misreading and misinterpreting this picture.



Maybe what you have there is an unplanned "unfinished" wrench in the sense of it being enamelled but also unbuffed.

 

[d42jeep]

The Superior 25 I picked up at a yard sale was finished, if a bit rusty on the polished steel ends. The rust buffed right off leaving it looking close to new. The black was surprisingly intact
After buffing.
-Don

 

[misterbill]

Thwop! (That's the sound of my hand hitting my head.) I think you're right. That does make more sense. I've been misreading and misinterpreting this picture.



Maybe what you have there is an unplanned "unfinished" wrench in the sense of it being enamelled but also unbuffed.

That's why I thought it might be WWII production. I can imagine that Williams or the government would have wanted some sort of "preservative". I don't remember if there were any Williams wrenches from back in your Workdawg days that might give a clue.

Bill