I bought the land, time to stop daydreaming.

[mpire]

I closed on the land this week. The most expensive thing I have ever bought. Been saving up for this a long time.

I have multiple expensive surveys, soil samples, wetlands delineations, and tree inspections.

Its fantastic land, lots of oaks in excess of 36 inches at chest height, excellent soil, and there is a nice pond with lily pads.

The plan is pretty simple, build a house, a little cottage for my aging mother, and a barn/garage.

I didn't think it would close so I haven't thought much about the next step.

I need a site plan, and to figure out the grading situation, but do I go to the county first or get estimates on grading?

Or architect, or honestly I have no idea what I am doing.

 

[mpire]

Do I want to look at pole barns or red iron for a largeish barn/garage?

I like the idea that I know how to do framing and have experience with that, but the red iron steel buildings are interesting.

I'm day dreaming about 4-5000 square feet, but IDK what the actual costs will be like.

40x120 vs 50x100, the shorter the trusses the cheaper is all I know so far.

 

[Mike65]

Me personally I would rather look at a pole barn.

 

[racecougar]

I'm a fan of the panel frame method.

https://bblusa.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/BBL_PanelFrame.pdf

 

[RoninB4]

Do I want to look at pole barns or red iron for a largeish barn/garage?

-Have you set aside a budget for just the work building (excluding the residential house and cottage)? Red iron is more durable but the cost may discourage you. Have you estimated concrete? How about HVAC and insulation? What type of work do you want to do in there? Is installation of a lift part of those plans? There's a boatload of numbers to juggle with cost variables but your budget and timeline are fairly set. Have you examined what drainage needs to be? Your location for surviving a hurricane may also need to be factored into the building construction. When I built my previous shop it went in stages, adding later seemed less beneficial than just continuous improvement until it was finished. The initial outlay of cash will be considerable but at least it's done. Shopping for deals takes a lot of time too. Do the budget thing would be my best advice.

40x120 vs 50x100, the shorter the trusses the cheaper is all I know so far.

-Height can also make a difference, it did for me. Nice looking piece of land, congratulations.

 

[mpire]

-Have you set aside a budget for just the work building (excluding the residential house and cottage)?

I intentionally haven't put much thought towards the project, this is the 6th property I have been under contract on, and working on plans with no site doesn't really make sense. I honestly didn't expect it to close.

The house is budgeted at $250 a square foot, I'm planning on paying a contractor for the slab, block walls, and roofing, then doing the rest mostly myself. The cottage has similar cost expectations, but I am not paying for the cottage.

The garage is budgeted at 200k, but I'm not sure how far that goes and I will have to adapt as necessary. I figure I only need 14 feet at the eaves to clear a 4 post lift, I might be able to get away with 12 feet. Insulation is a must, but again, I have no idea what I'm doing. I have one heavy duty lift, I want an additional light duty wide lift to fit under the short wheelbase cars.

I have helped build a 2800 square foot garage before, I've swung roof trusses and done framing, and I have gutted multiple properties down to studs and rebuilt them with satisfactory results.

Site prep and grading is completely new and very daunting, and I have a 1700 square foot house and small shed to tear down as well.

 

[mpire]

I'm a fan of the panel frame method.

I like wood because I know how to handle wood, I have experience with framing and insulating wood walls. I have zero experience with steel other than ripping out steel studs and replacing them with wood in previous projects. I don't know if wood/steel is better than the other.

I have 130mph wind load requirements here in CFL.

 

[Firebrick43]

With either a pole barn or a post frame like RaceCougar posted, its probably going to have to be fully sheathed, both walls and roof, to handle those kind of wind loads.

 

[jack stand]

I closed on the land this week. The most expensive thing I have ever bought. Been saving up for this a long time.

I have multiple expensive surveys, soil samples, wetlands delineations, and tree inspections.

Its fantastic land, lots of oaks in excess of 36 inches at chest height, excellent soil, and there is a nice pond with lily pads.

The plan is pretty simple, build a house, a little cottage for my aging mother, and a barn/garage.

I didn't think it would close so I haven't thought much about the next step.

I need a site plan, and to figure out the grading situation, but do I go to the county first or get estimates on grading?

Or architect, or honestly I have no idea what I am doing.

I live in a world where you'd make an appointment with the person who's responsible for your permitting & inspections.
Fill him in on your dreams, basically what you wrote above.
Pleading your ignorance sometimes can be a good start to your relationship and project.
Hopefully you'll be able to lean on him for recommendations for contractors and professionals.
These guys sometimes just want to be in control and it's his way or the highway. Approaching him with your ignorance here he'll at least know you're not loaded with years of experience... somewhere else and un prove able.
The other thing (that'll cost you) would be hiring a local general contractor. It's often a cost plus situation. Not a recipe for competitive pricing of the materials and labor or anything else!!!

 

[Stuart in MN]

The budget for the shed/garage feels light (that's just a guess) so maybe come up with a plan for a smaller structure that can be expanded in the future?

A good architect will walk the property with you and help work out siting the buildings. You have to look at other stuff too, like where to put a septic system and well ( assuming you don't have public utilities) , avoiding wetlands, etc. They hopefully will also be able to help with contacting the appropriate authorities, permitting, finding good contractors and so on. Of course, finding the right architect for your needs is a job in itself.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I like wood because I know how to handle wood, I have experience with framing and insulating wood walls. I have zero experience with steel other than ripping out steel studs and replacing them with wood in previous projects. I don't know if wood/steel is better than the other.

I have 130mph wind load requirements here in CFL.

This is probably going to take a lead in your building plans.

 

[BobnCO]

Yes start thinking of laying out the site based on access, and desired distances back from the road or to site features, and desired distance between buildings. How you want the property to “flow” This will help inform quantities for road/drives (always more expensive than you think) utilities etc. I would want to have considered these before meeting with the architect or the city. So you’re not answering “I don’t know” to all their early questions. Only you can answer these questions.(I was a GC and got to do this early on at sites, now occasionally do it when valuing land as an appraiser)

 

[racecougar]

I have 130mph wind load requirements here in CFL.

Your frost depth and snow load requirements are a bit different, too.

 

[mpire]

The budget for the shed/garage feels light (that's just a guess) so maybe come up with a plan for a smaller structure that can be expanded in the future?

A good architect will walk the property with you and help work out siting the buildings. You have to look at other stuff too, like where to put a septic system and well ( assuming you don't have public utilities) , avoiding wetlands, etc. They hopefully will also be able to help with contacting the appropriate authorities, permitting, finding good contractors and so on. Of course, finding the right architect for your needs is a job in itself.

Unfortunately for me, I have a college degree in Architecture that I have never used, so I'm already full of bad ideas.

The garage budget is just the dried in structure, nothing inside. No AC, no utilities, no lights, just dried in.

There is existing well and septic that will be re-used, but I will be adding another septic (I think) for the cottage and maybe a bathroom in the garage eventually.

The wetlands are well defined and will not have any impact on the buildings. This is the biggest hurdle when buying land in CFL.

The house and barn are going roughly where the existing house and barn are located, because I can't move the barn due to the required setbacks and there have been new structures built since, so to keep the barn this close to the back of the property I need the grandfathered location. Or so I think based on my research.

I have been corrected by GJ members for the better part of 20 years at this point, so this is the first place I post the dumb questions.

Thanks for your input.

 

[mpire]

I live in a world where you'd make an appointment with the person who's responsible for your permitting & inspections.

Luckily I have friends that are experienced contractors, and I will be buying one of them an expensive steak tonight to celebrate closing.

They don't want my job, but they will point me at good subs and answer general questions.

I can't afford a general contractor, so this is going to be an experience for sure.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Unfortunately for me, I have a college degree in Architecture that I have never used, so I'm already full of bad ideas.

Oh boy, you're going to be a terrible customer.

(I'm an engineer with a lot of construction experience, so I'm in the same boat when it comes to working with contractors.)

 

[mpire]

Oh boy, you're going to be a terrible customer.

I really like the idea of rigid foam insulation under the roof deck, and I bet its not a thing they even consider here in Florida. Its going to be a challenge.

My first challenge is getting city water. I have a water meter less than 10 feet from my back wall, but they will probably charge me to run the pipe from the street which would be 400 feet of pipe and some directional boring plus who knows how many more "challenges."

I have a 15 foot utilities easement on my property, but what are the ods the water main is actually inside the easement?

 

[RoninB4]

I closed on the land this week. The most expensive thing I have ever bought. Been saving up for this a long time.

-I misinterpreted your first post as it being your first land purchase and building project. Your later posts reveal this isn't your first rodeo.

Or architect, or honestly I have no idea what I am doing.

-You certainly seem to have a better grasp of the project than I did/do so I'll back away from making suggestions but do wish you success in this coming out the way you hope for. Sounds like it's a big moment for you.

 

[macgyver37]

Currently Kansas has been and is getting so much rain it is flooding, so water is on my mind. I'd spend more time than you think you should on figuring out how to deal with the water. I understand FL is pretty flat with a high water table etc, so I'd consider raising structures as much as you effectively can. If there are things you can do up front to help control water, I'd seriously consider spending the money and time to do it.
There are so many people's houses and even commercial buildings around town that have trouble with water infiltration that you can tell the people didn't seriously consider the fact that it does rain here and sometimes alot and often. Some places it is impossible to fix right without tearing down and starting over.

 

[carlaisle]

Regarding your thoughts on the existing barn to be torn down/replaced: check with whomever has final authority over your plans to be sure if you tear that building down you are allowed to put another up in the same location. Frequently, when setbacks are changed after the fact, existing structures are grandfathered, but if you remove it anything new you wish to erect is subject to the new setback rules. The way this is commonly skirted - in those locations friendly to such skirting - is to "renovate" the existing structure one wall at a time. Since the structure is never fully demolished, it remains grandfathered.

Scissor trusses can help with keeping your eave height in check. You might look in to if they are a viable option for your use. With your wind load issues, controlling the height will have an outsized impact on controlling the budget, as well.

 

[JuncleJohn]

New construction might require a new properly-sized septic system, with additional room for future new laterals. Professional inspection of the well might also be a requirement.

Hopefully your experienced contractor friends can help guide you through the formalities so you don’t ruffle any feathers with the local planning, permits and inspection departments.

Congrat’s on your purchase and good luck fulfilling your dream.

John

 

[hampster]

How did you go under contract on 6(!) properties before one closed? I know of lots of people losing out on offers, but once a piece of property goes pending, as long as the buyer's financing is solid it's rare, at least around here, for it to not close.

 

[MushCreek]

I went on a similar adventure, starting 20 years ago. Our rural SC property is hilly, so I spent a lot of time studying the best positioning and orientation of the buildings. There was only one area that was practical for the barn. I built a 28X48 from barnplans.com. I lived in the unfinished barn while I built the house. I had the barn dried in because it was way to big for a 60 y/o man to frame by himself. I did 90% of the work on the house, using ICF. I oriented the house to take advantage of trees for shade in the morning and evening, and also to take advantage of a mountain view. I designed a house with a walk-out basement to fit the slope of the land. Lots and lots of planning and sketches before I actually began building.

All of this is to say let the land speak to you about the layout of the property. And of course, make sure that everything you want to do will fly with the local authorities. Congratulations, and keep us posted!

 

[mpire]

How did you go under contract on 6(!) properties before one closed?

Wetlands contingencies mostly. You buy land in Florida, but you don't want wetlands. Wetlands are federally and state protected from development. Its really confusing at first. So even if you buy it, you can't touch it. You can't put a picnic table on it. If a plane flys over and sees you have anything on the wetlands or the uplands buffer, then you will get a visit from the FDEP.

You can buy offsets, but its extremely expensive and generally an uphill battle with the State on what you can and can't do, you need assistance, etc. So if you didn't get the land for free, its just not worth the effort. You can search around for property and use the Federal Wetlands mapper to start. The state also has one, but its broken most of the time. https://fwsprimary.wim.usgs.gov/wetlands/apps/wetlands-mapper/

Then you have to figure out the flood levels, the elevations, and the water table. Every time they build more expensive tract housing in Florida they raise the whole "Planned Development" 2-10 feet and that means the water runs down to lower areas, but areas that weren't so low 20 years ago. Its a complicated game. I'm going to have to bring in a lot of dirt just to "catch up."

Then you have to get the soil sampled, you can't build on muck, so muck has to be scooped out and replaced with hardpack fill. That's just unrealistic for lots of properties.

Prices in Florida are literally insane for non HOA land, and anything worth any value is snapped up the moment it hits the market if not before, the rest is pretty much worthless. HOAs have gotten such a bad reputation that anything without an HOA sells for a premium.

Here's an example: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/16415-Bearle-Rd-18-Orlando-FL-32828/2054323986_zpid/

Its nice land, it has a little man made pond they dug in the 1960s, its got a little island in the middle of the lake and a wood plank connecting them, but its pretty rotten. It would have been an awesome place to put a table and chairs. There was a 3/2 ranch style house on this property right by that power pole that burned down in 2017. It seemed completely doable, put the house on the front, put the barn on the back. Had a nice little shed on the property until the current owners tore it down to make the place look more appealing.

Turns out that this land "Reverted to Wetlands" when the last structure was torn down. I paid $2500 for a wetlands report on this parcel that basically says there is no way the County/State will ever let you put anything on that property. Its completely worthless other than a buffer from your neighbors.

 

[mpire]

If there are things you can do up front to help control water, I'd seriously consider spending the money and time to do it.

Yeah, the barn flooded a little with the massive 1000 year storm in 2024, so I'm going to have to raise the barn up a couple feet to meet the requirements.

The water table is really low here for Florida, so its a good spot. I had that checked before purchasing.

 

[mpire]

New construction might require a new properly-sized septic system, with additional room for future new laterals. Professional inspection of the well might also be a requirement.

Getting the septic inspected, checked out, and capped off is part of the permitting process to remove the house. Same goes for the well, there will be a lot of permits.

 

[abfish]

A friend developed a large retirement property like yours, over an extended period of time, with sheds, guest cabin, pond, main house, etc.

He hired a landscape architect who prepared a plan that sited all of the proposed buildings in relation to the pond and topography of the site. Some of the buildings have yet to be built, but he has a master plan to work from if he decides to continue developing the site.

The property appears to have evolved organically over time, but if you know what you're looking at, it's obvious how much thought went into each structure.

I'm not an architect, but I have been involved in land development for many years. My advice is to spend plenty of time on overall site planning before the first shovel hits the ground.

 

[mpire]

I'm not an architect, but I have been involved in land development for many years. My advice is to spend plenty of time on overall site planning before the first shovel hits the ground.

I think it will take me 6 months or more just to get the permits approved, or so I've heard. I make my first in person visit on Monday to the county. I'm kinda rushed on the ADU/Guest cottage. I need it to be fully fitted out with handicap/elder care setup as soon as possible, but I can't build the ADU until I build the house as the ADU has to be no larger than 35% of the main house. There are lots of steps, lots of requirements, and they have to go in a certain order. I am learning as much as I can as fast as I can.

 

[JuncleJohn]

Sounds like you have a solid plan going forward. Keep us in the loop so we can follow your progress.

John