Garage Journal referenced on Youtube
- Thread starter OccupantRJ
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rust in the eye
Well-known member
A.I, can't do it.
Wrench-Polisher
Well-known member
OP I appreciate you putting in an effort and sharing it but I absolutely refuse to give AI videos a click.
four.cycle
Well-known member
For those of you who would rather not waste 40 minutes of your life listening to an ill-informed AI bot:
This is an excellent example of why "AI" can never be trusted to deliver accurate information. Accurate information depends on individuals who are willing to invest the time to do their own research. "AI" relies on what its bots can glean off the web, which unfortunately is lacking. In the end, the reader is left with half-truths, misstatements, and glaring errors.
1. The "original" "Craftsman" brand was made by Craftsman Tool Co., Conneaut, OH. George Heckling, of Cleveland, Ohio was issued US patent 870781 Nov 12 1907 for a "Pipe Wrench" - marketed as the "Craft" pipe wrench.
2. The Cushman Auto Tool Co., 602 So. Neil St., Champaign, IL, marketed "Craftsman" brand tools. The company went into receivership in 1922.
3. Western Forge, 4607 Forge Road, Colorado Springs, CO closed in 2020.
4. Stanley Black and Decker never produced any tools at their new Fort Worth plant. Production delays, shipping delays, Covid, and poor planning resulted in SBD pulling the plug on the entire operation. A lot of money was spent on a building which remains empty and unused to this day.
5. The claim that one cannot find a combination wrench of equal or greater quality today than what one could find in 1968 is simply nonsense. All kinds of forging facilities all over the planet are manufacturing wrenches, pliers, screwdrivers, and any and all manner of hand tools which are of much better quality (and superior design) today than what one could find 50 or 60 years ago. But you're not going to buy that wrench for 39 cents - it's going to cost you $37.80.
I only invested the time to listen to all of it to see what was mentioned about GJ - it's only one line which includes "Practical Machinist" and references the efforts made by individuals to suss out from the forging marks who the OEM manufacturers were. They do not mention Gary Lauver's name, which I found curious. I have seen other instances of AI bots naming individual members here by their "handles".
Just for the purpose of throwing a bit more shade on "AI", here's what is believed to be an early "Craftsman" logo. Our friend at AA was as puzzled by it as I am. (If any of you have any educated guesses in respect to this "Vanadium Steel" set, do let us know.)
This is an excellent example of why "AI" can never be trusted to deliver accurate information. Accurate information depends on individuals who are willing to invest the time to do their own research. "AI" relies on what its bots can glean off the web, which unfortunately is lacking. In the end, the reader is left with half-truths, misstatements, and glaring errors.
1. The "original" "Craftsman" brand was made by Craftsman Tool Co., Conneaut, OH. George Heckling, of Cleveland, Ohio was issued US patent 870781 Nov 12 1907 for a "Pipe Wrench" - marketed as the "Craft" pipe wrench.
2. The Cushman Auto Tool Co., 602 So. Neil St., Champaign, IL, marketed "Craftsman" brand tools. The company went into receivership in 1922.
3. Western Forge, 4607 Forge Road, Colorado Springs, CO closed in 2020.
4. Stanley Black and Decker never produced any tools at their new Fort Worth plant. Production delays, shipping delays, Covid, and poor planning resulted in SBD pulling the plug on the entire operation. A lot of money was spent on a building which remains empty and unused to this day.
5. The claim that one cannot find a combination wrench of equal or greater quality today than what one could find in 1968 is simply nonsense. All kinds of forging facilities all over the planet are manufacturing wrenches, pliers, screwdrivers, and any and all manner of hand tools which are of much better quality (and superior design) today than what one could find 50 or 60 years ago. But you're not going to buy that wrench for 39 cents - it's going to cost you $37.80.
I only invested the time to listen to all of it to see what was mentioned about GJ - it's only one line which includes "Practical Machinist" and references the efforts made by individuals to suss out from the forging marks who the OEM manufacturers were. They do not mention Gary Lauver's name, which I found curious. I have seen other instances of AI bots naming individual members here by their "handles".
Just for the purpose of throwing a bit more shade on "AI", here's what is believed to be an early "Craftsman" logo. Our friend at AA was as puzzled by it as I am. (If any of you have any educated guesses in respect to this "Vanadium Steel" set, do let us know.)
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four.cycle
Well-known member
Sorry if that came off as a rant. I just copy and pasted the comment I posted on YouTube and added the last couple paragraphs for members here.
I wouldn't have bothered with it had the OP not mentioned "GJ" was mentioned in the video, and I was curious to see if they were citing individuals by name, as I have seen in other AI responses, where certain members are cited as part of the AI bot's response.
If you are in need of a proper AI rant, here's one for you.
four.cycle
Well-known member
I'm not really sure what you are asking there.
MOST of the content in the video would be relatively easy to find with simple Google searches.
A few of the points mentioned in the video may have required a human to do some investigative research, but it's clear they were not thorough in their efforts if that was the case. (Otherwise they would not have made the errors I listed above)
I have to assume that's a typo in the second sentence, and that you meant "bots".
Yes, every website is "crawling with bots". The exception here would be "Free Parking", where non-members are not able to view content.
It's quite clear that "AI" bots regularly crawl all over this website, evidenced by mentions of users by name: myself, @Private Lugnutz, and @RTM, to name just a few.
Sorry, I've been ranting about AI on venues other than GJ.We've not had an AI rant thread here in days.
Should I start??
Of course.
YesIHaveAHammer
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- Jun 1, 2025
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- 882
The AI models have already been fed the entire contents of pretty much all websites for "training". So they kinda know it already, but also they can fetch archived copies of the exact text for immediate reference to fill in the details they might not have remembered from training.
The models do seem to hold some sources in higher regard than others, so for example YouTube (regardless of the individual creator) tends to be referenced more often than Garage Journal.
If you enter any tool related question into Google, then provided the internet isn't flooded with YouTubers and marketing talking about the topic, there's a fair chance you'll see GarageJournal threads listed on the right as sources the AI used to produce its answer. This is only when it used an archived copy for reference (as I mentioned earlier) - it might also be using knowledge it's learned from our posts in that earlier training step, but it doesn't actually know where it learned anything from, so it can't credit it.
The models do seem to hold some sources in higher regard than others, so for example YouTube (regardless of the individual creator) tends to be referenced more often than Garage Journal.
If you enter any tool related question into Google, then provided the internet isn't flooded with YouTubers and marketing talking about the topic, there's a fair chance you'll see GarageJournal threads listed on the right as sources the AI used to produce its answer. This is only when it used an archived copy for reference (as I mentioned earlier) - it might also be using knowledge it's learned from our posts in that earlier training step, but it doesn't actually know where it learned anything from, so it can't credit it.
four.cycle
Well-known member
That is simply false.
If they HAD been fed all the information on the web, they wouldn't make the errors they do.
All of those errors in the video I cited above were based on information I was able to glean off the internet. I didn't have to use any secret passwords or pay money to find the information. It's just a matter of looking for it, and verifying it, which the "AI" bots fail to do.
I have seen example after example after example after example. It is exhausting.
I honestly wish members would stop dragging "AI" ******** onto this website.
Just stop it already.
Take it to another site - post it on Reddit or somewhere else.
four.cycle
Well-known member
.... and therein lies the crux of the issue.
"Peer reviewed papers" are loaded with citations.
In the appendix, you'll find long lists of references and sources.
"AI" = just a computer's best guess. No references. No sources cited. Exponentially less reliable than Wikipedia. By orders of magnitude.
YesIHaveAHammer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2025
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- 882
It's actually true. The problem is that while they've been fed it, they don't remember all of it - either at all, or accurately. Or they might get mixed up on what they remembered. Or they don't actually know but think they do.
Yes, this is the 2nd step I mentioned:
The problem is that they don't have good judgement on which sources to prefer and to trust on many topics. Unlike you or I when it comes to tools. Also they are probably configured to respond within a couple of seconds and not cost more than $0.0001 to answer your query, so that doesn't prioritise giving a good result.
Just sharing what I know on how things work. Not seeking to defend.
When I was taking computer programming classes back in the stone ages, all of the professors stressed "Garbage in, Garbage Out" which meant if you're working with bad data, you're going to get bad results.
There's a lot of good information on the Internet.
There's also a lot of bad information on the Internet.
Most, not all of the publicly available AI stuff doesn't know the difference.
There's a lot of good information on the Internet.
There's also a lot of bad information on the Internet.
Most, not all of the publicly available AI stuff doesn't know the difference.
four.cycle
Well-known member
Had something of an interesting conversation yesterday with Google's "AI" bot.
I told the AI bot "If you have read everything on the internet, and you've read every book ever printed, then you should already have known the answers to these questions."
"I don't read," it replied.
Said it "scanned for patterns" and formulated answers from that.
So.... it just stirs the garbage pail around a bit, and comes up with more garbage.
"I am a text-prediction program, not a database or an active search engine pulling from an organized library."
IOW: just a computerized "best wild guess" machine
I told the AI bot "If you have read everything on the internet, and you've read every book ever printed, then you should already have known the answers to these questions."
"I don't read," it replied.
Said it "scanned for patterns" and formulated answers from that.
So.... it just stirs the garbage pail around a bit, and comes up with more garbage.
"I am a text-prediction program, not a database or an active search engine pulling from an organized library."
IOW: just a computerized "best wild guess" machine
welder4956
Well-known member
I'll just leave this here:
Ok, so says AI...I'll just leave this here:
welder4956
Well-known member
But, is AI correct when it says AI is not always correct...
zimman
Well-known member
Garage Journal will need a 12 Step Meeting soon for AI. LMAO
Zim
Zim
Ohio Andy
Well-known member
I was curious about torque ratings on a few bit ratchets... Chapman and Wadsworth directly State these numbers on their website.
I did not see it directly wrong friends buy snap-on on their website so I googled it... And Google AI gave me answers. I would love to know what those answers came from.
Best I can speculate is they pull them from the standard cuz at least snap-on lists a standard that they use... But I don't really know
I did not see it directly wrong friends buy snap-on on their website so I googled it... And Google AI gave me answers. I would love to know what those answers came from.
Best I can speculate is they pull them from the standard cuz at least snap-on lists a standard that they use... But I don't really know
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niget2002
Well-known member
You can ask some AI to search the web for more recent results and to provide links for any information it provides. It takes longer and burns more tokens, but can help.
ie:
ie: