Anyone interested in a shaper (aka, spindle moulder, Toupie, Tischfräse) conversation?

[purplezr2]

Thoughts on tilting shapers, forward vs rearward.

Also jealous of the deals you are able to find. I thought I scored on my RS-15 for 600 with a Maggi Vario 3 feeder. I did put new bearings in both the shaper and feeder.

 

[jar944]

Thoughts on tilting shapers, forward vs rearward.

Also jealous of the deals you are able to find. I thought I scored on my RS-15 for 600 with a Maggi Vario 3 feeder. I did put new bearings in both the shaper and feeder.

600 for a rs15 with feeder is a great deal, even needing bearings.

As for forward vs rearward tilt, it's mostly marketing hype imho. The common setup on the older euro shapers was 5 degrees back and 45 degrees forward. On some like the Martin (and invicta) you can spin the fence 360 degrees on the outer table ring to run in the back side if you needed the opposite tilt. I believe its only felder suggesting rearward tilt is somehow superior.

 

[jar944]

Expanding on tilting shapers (everyone needs at least one)

There are ways around it (by building fixtures to angle the wood when running through the shaper) however it's a lot easier to just tilt the spindle.

This picture frame material was cut with the amana rebate head up thread by tilting the spindle.



Beyond matching angles, you can adjust profiles of existing knives to match the profile you are trying to create by tilting the spindle. Or alternatively you can have a knife ground to take advantage of the tilt to lessen the projection of the knife (typically limited to 3x the knife thickness)


Not the greatest use case but..

 

[Bessy]

Recently acquired a shaper that I had a line on for a good long while, tooling is definitely more expensive than router bits, but the quality of a heavy 3hp machine compared to my previous router-in-table situation is just far superior, as is the ability to use heavier duty cutters. I'm already looking at how I can justify and shoe-horn a second shaper into the shop, and this thread making mention of a tilting arbor has now made that a priority to find, as is the fact that the next shaper I want to either purchase with, or retrofit for a sliding table.

 

[tarbellb]

You are a beast @jar944

Super informative, good vids and details. Thx

 

[jar944]

Anyone interested in raised panel heads?

Freud



Schmidt


Leitz

 

[purplezr2]

Since you brought up cutters heads. What are the “essential” heads to have. I have a few so far.
Cope and stick for doors.
Back cutter
Miter lock
Rabbeting
Segment with bearing for pattern work

How about the new miter lock head from white hill
White Hill Lock Miter

 

[jar944]

Since you brought up cutters heads. What are the “essential” heads to have. I have a few so far.
Cope and stick for doors.
Back cutter
Miter lock
Rabbeting
Segment with bearing for pattern work

How about the new miter lock head from white hill
White Hill Lock Miter

Just generally the essential list likely would be:

rebate block
Adjustable groover (I like the 8-15 over the 4-15 for general use but the latter is more versatile)
Corrugated head or 40mm euro block.

Then a pattern head

I have a very similar cmt lock Miter head, and it works well, it's just not something I use all the time.

If you were looking to do more cabinets than millwork/joinery a RP head and a insert cope/stick set would likely be more beneficial than a corrugated head. Though you can get corrugated cope and stick knives.

 

[purplezr2]

I added to the shaper family this week with a 7.5hp Delta Invicta TI-14 with a 1 hp grizzly feeder. I feel I likely overpaid for it but it was local..... . Also pick up a "new" Felder F38 3 wheel feeder for $300 which I thought was a good deal. I say news as it appears to never have been used, but a has a few bumps and bruise in the paint, and the stand has some surface rust staining.

Trying to decide if I should sell the Grizzly or the RS-15. Grizzly has a router spindle which is handy. Finding a router spindle of the RS-15/Ti-14 is about impossible.

 

[jar944]

I added to the shaper family this week with a 7.5hp Delta Invicta TI-14 with a 1 hp grizzly feeder. I feel I likely overpaid for it but it was local..... . Also pick up a "new" Felder F38 3 wheel feeder for $300 which I thought was a good deal. I say news as it appears to never have been used, but a has a few bumps and bruise in the paint, and the stand has some surface rust staining.

Trying to decide if I should sell the Grizzly or the RS-15. Grizzly has a router spindle which is handy. Finding a router spindle of the RS-15/Ti-14 is about impossible.

Which of the ti-14s they had 4 options from fixed (non tilt) non slider to tilting sliding?

Im not a fan of the grizzly shapers in general and the spindles are interchangeable between the rs-15 and ti-14 (not that makes a huge difference) I've always sold the smallest shaper when I aquire a additional machine. I've also never run router bits in a shaper so take that for what it's worth.

 

[purplezr2]

Which of the ti-14s they had 4 options from fixed (non tilt) non slider to tilting sliding?

Im not a fan of the grizzly shapers in general and the spindles are interchangeable between the rs-15 and ti-14 (not that makes a huge difference) I've always sold the smallest shaper when I aquire a additional machine. I've also never run router bits in a shaper so take that for what it's worth.

Fixed spindle, Fixed table. Looks like a new version of my RS-15, and like you said interchangeable spindles, but can't change them with tooling on the spindle so does little to no good.

 

[drivesitfar]

Jar: thanks for starting this thread. When I get my small woodshop built I’ll bring my smallish very heavy (forgot brand name at the minute) out of storage. When I picked it up a few years ago from a retired woodworker it came with maybe 100 bits so I’m looking forward to seeing how this works.

 

[jar944]

Fixed spindle, Fixed table. Looks like a new version of my RS-15, and like you said interchangeable spindles, but can't change them with tooling on the spindle so does little to no good.

I'd still keep the two invictas over the grizzly, even though they are the same machine.

 

[Bessy]

Fixed spindle, Fixed table. Looks like a new version of my RS-15, and like you said interchangeable spindles, but can't change them with tooling on the spindle so does little to no good.

What's stopping you from changing the spindle with tooling mounted, out of curiousity? I've got 1/2" and 3/4" male spindles and a 1/2" router collet for my General International 3hp, but I've never actually had the 3/4 off it yet. Far as tooling goes, I can't fathom there being a whole lot of benefit to switching the spindle out each time, but I can say a good quality spindle-lock function would be a huge upgrade on my machine over the double wrench method.

For whatever reason, age/wear maybe, the nuts nor the spindle flats seem to fit super well in either metric or SAE wrenches. Fortunately I have an assortment of knipex that get the job done when I need to swap cutters.

 

[jar944]

What's stopping you from changing the spindle with tooling mounted, out of curiousity? I've got 1/2" and 3/4" male spindles and a 1/2" router collet for my General International 3hp, but I've never actually had the 3/4 off it yet. Far as tooling goes, I can't fathom there being a whole lot of benefit to switching the spindle out each time, but I can say a good quality spindle-lock function would be a huge upgrade on my machine over the double wrench method.

For whatever reason, age/wear maybe, the nuts nor the spindle flats seem to fit super well in either metric or SAE wrenches. Fortunately I have an assortment of knipex that get the job done when I need to swap cutters.

The older continental European (or Brazil) stuff had a Morse taper #5 quill to spindle attachment with a dual thread retention nut. There is no drawbar and to remove the nut (which also pops the spindle out of the taper) you slide a large pipe over the spindle onto the nut.

The new suff has mutiple quick change spindle options

 

[Bessy]

The older continental European (or Brazil) stuff had a Morse taper #5 quill to spindle attachment with a dual thread retention nut. There is no drawbar and to remove the nut (which also pops the spindle out of the taper) you slide a large pipe over the spindle onto the nut.

The new suff has mutiple quick change spindle options

I see. Thanks for the video explanation!

Mine, I seem to think, is changeable without removing the cutter. From the look of the 1/2" spindle, based on the taper and threaded end, I don't seem to see any reason why it couldn't be removed with a cutter in place.

 

[purplezr2]

Euro block suggestions, would like to get one to run a few different knives. Thoughts on White hill vs CMT vs?? Can you use White hill knives in other brand blocks. They have a handle pull knife I would like to use for a project.

 

[jar944]

Euro block suggestions, would like to get one to run a few different knives. Thoughts on White hill vs CMT vs?? Can you use White hill knives in other brand blocks. They have a handle pull knife I would like to use for a project.

Mine are mostly amana, though I do have a cmt head in there as well. I'm not sure about the whitehill knives. I think brent stanley mentioned to me that the whitehill blocks are too deep to use standard commodity knives.

That said the standard blocks *should be able to use the whitehill knives

 

[purplezr2]

Mine are mostly amana, though I do have a cmt head in there as well. I'm not sure about the whitehill knives. I think brent stanley mentioned to me that the whitehill blocks are too deep to use standard commodity knives.

That said the standard blocks *should be able to use the whitehill knives

Thanks for the feedback, any recommendations on knife vendors? Whitehill being in the UK makes shipping a bit cost prohibitive

 

[jar944]

Thanks for the feedback, any recommendations on knife vendors? Whitehill being in the UK makes shipping a bit cost prohibitive

If you mean the standard commodity 40/50mm knives, whoever is cheaper. They are all the same. Amazon cmt knives use to be the least expensive option (through routerbit world.) I bought 99% of my knives there.